Now that you own an S1 are you still compelled to buy a GS3?

Post by **cruelbeanz** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:18 am

I was in the market to buy a GS3 - but I have to say that after buying the S1, I think buying a GS3 would've been just downright foolish.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:18 am

"Now that you own an S1 are you still compelled to buy a GS3?"
HELL NO.
I got two Vivaldis for less than the price of one dysfunctional GS3.

Post by **coffeeowl** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:34 pm

Interesting (and very educative) photostory. Really impressive

hmmm

When I read (and reread from time to time

)the prototype review at HB I have a strong feeling of admiration.
However, all further reading and photos from ordinary users keep me away from that feeling... somehow.
It looks like the design, price tag and/or target client for that machine is mistaken.

We need some nice Zen pictures of our Vivaldis here

:)

Post by **cruelbeanz** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:43 pm

coffeeowl wrote:Interesting (and very educative) photostory. Really impressive hmmm

When I read (and reread from time to time )the prototype review at HB I have a strong feeling of admiration.
However, all further reading and photos from ordinary users keep me away from that feeling... somehow.
It looks like the design, price tag and/or target client for that machine is mistaken.

We need some nice Zen pictures of our Vivaldis here :)

I've been on that site over a dozen times - made me druel for the GS/3. But you're right, the high price and teething problems the first release is experiencing makes the VII much more appealling. Me thinks (probably wrong here) the VII and the GS3 are practically the same machine - but VII being the better value.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:47 pm

You're paying top dollar for a well built machine in the La Marzocco fashion, top quality parts with hand built precision, state of the art everything, etc..
It is disappointing to read about all the problems it suffers. Yes, it makes the Vivaldi a great value if you think about what you're getting....

Post by **cruelbeanz** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:50 pm

Niko wrote:You're paying top dollar for a well built machine in the La Marzocco fashion, top quality parts with hand built precision, state of the art everything, etc..
It is disappointing to read about all the problems it suffers. Yes, it makes the Vivaldi a great value if you think about what you're getting....

The only thing that makes me dream about the LaMaz GS/3 (yes - even now that I have a LaSpaz) is this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyMvizMCjcE

Post by **coffeeowl** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:21 pm

???
The shot was messy so they skipped it

yea the artwork was beautiful, but it's not the GS3 work

cured? :D

Post by **cruelbeanz** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:23 pm

coffeeowl wrote:???
The shot was messy so they skipped it
yea the artwork was beautiful, but it's not the GS3 work

cured? :D

Somewhat - still like that lever action Steamer.

Post by **Zzyzx** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:45 pm

If I were in the market today for a high end home espresso machine the GS3 would be ruled out for various reasons:
The price point is not even in the same ball park as other comparable machines. 4500.00? Come on. The Vivaldi is kicking out beautiful pours at less then 2K, plus steams like a champ.
Seems to have some design flaws that have yet to be addressed.
Not sure about long term reliability.

I think it would be a contender for me once the issues were fixed and it has a proven track record. Oh, and they dropped the price about 50% :D

Post by **Niko** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:17 pm

Check this out:
http://www.home-barista.com/forums/gs3- ... t5503.html

Post by **Zzyzx** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:41 pm

Hmm lets see, 1 GS3 or 3 Vivaldi II's with 3 Macaps?

Post by **Niko** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:14 pm

Yeah, real tough decision there!
I think Marzocco is out of their freakin' minds! It makes them look so arrogant about their machine, sure it's a nice unit but not 8K worth...

Post by **Zzyzx** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:37 pm

At that price you might as well go all the way and get a commercial model

Post by **Niko** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:27 pm

No kidding!
You can get a GB5 which blows the cheesy plastic side panels off the GS3...

Post by **cruelbeanz** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:42 pm

Niko wrote:No kidding!
You can get a GB5 which blows the cheesy plastic side panels off the GS3...

Or the S5!

Post by **Niko** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:59 pm

Boy I can tell, you really want an S5! :D

Post by **cruelbeanz** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:03 pm

Niko wrote:Boy I can tell, you really want an S5! :D

Oh yeah - I'll need a bigger kitchen first.

Not to detract but here's the vid that made me really want one:

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ6UC6xuQ50

Post by **Niko** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:56 pm

I like how he "borrowed" the machine for an afternoon!
Just for the record....if anybody lends a two-group machine to me, you ain't getting it back! All the work involved plumbing and draining it and the 4 hour warm up isn't worth it...

and BTW, his rosetta needs some work

Post by **cruelbeanz** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:21 pm

Niko wrote:I like how he "borrowed" the machine for an afternoon!
Just for the record....if anybody lends a two-group machine to me, you ain't getting it back! All the work involved plumbing and draining it and the 4 hour warm up isn't worth it...

and BTW, his rosetta needs some work

4 Hour WarmUp

Post by **Niko** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:29 pm

Well, maybe not 4 hours for a 2-group single boiler machine but I know that some of the larger ones take a day to warm up and stabilize.

Post by **BrewHaHa** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:15 am

Niko wrote:Well, maybe not 4 hours for a 2-group single boiler machine but I know that some of the larger ones take a day to warm up and stabilize.

Not a prob for me; I pretty much leave the Spaz on 24/7.

Post by **wgaggl** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:07 pm

Niko wrote:Boy I can tell, you really want an S5! :D

I did a lot of temp profiling on the GB5 (with the new hybrid group caps, very important), it's a great machine, I'd prefer the GB5 (maybe a 2 group for 10k) over the S5 any time!

And yes, I'd need a bigger kitchen first :D

Wolfgang

Post by **Niko** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:19 pm

The GB5 would be my machine of choice, that's why I mentioned it. I've seen them for around 9K...I'd fork over 9K for 2-group GB5 before throwing down 8K for a plastic-sided GS3 any day of the week

Post by **wgaggl** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:15 pm

If you ever consider buying a GB5 (and you will notice the longing undertone in my sentence...) make sure it has the newer group caps, the ones where the three-way valves are built right into the caps (unlike the original design with traditional groups where the water leaves the group to pass the valve), it has a temp profile like the hybrid group (that's why I call it "hybrid group cap") on the GS3 and some other modified LMs with hybrid groups. The advantage of that new design over the (more expensive) hybrid groups is its simplicity and serviceability.

I've seen 2 group GB5s with the traditional group for under 9k, but if I ever shell out 9k for a GB5, I'd make sure it has the newer group caps (even if it would cost me 1k$ more).

Wolfgang

Post by **Niko** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:04 pm

It would look nice on the kitchen island...
No cabinets to bump into or heat up and the ceiling is at least 10 feet high

Post by **wgaggl** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:13 pm

Niko wrote:It would look nice on the kitchen island...
No cabinets to bump into or heat up and the ceiling is at least 10 feet high

Just keep going like this and I have to remodel my kitchen to fit the GB5 in!

(I'm missing the :drool: emoticon here!)

Post by **Niko** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:18 pm

Only problem is that I'm married...the wife would kick me arse if you know what I mean. Thankfully she LOVES espresso shots otherwise me arse would've been in trouble after the first Vivaldi.

...if I could afford a GB5 (someday I will), I'll probably fly you out here to take those thermal readings in person

That would be cool

...I got dibs on the Left group!

Post by **wgaggl** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:26 pm

Niko wrote:Only problem is that I'm married...the wife would kick me arse if you know what I mean. Thankfully she LOVES espresso shots otherwise me arse would've been in trouble after the first Vivaldi.

Niko,

same thing here! I had to do some convincing for my wife to buy my Vivaldi.

But since she loves the cappas I'm making she is quite happy with it and she thinks it was a great purchase.

But try convincing someone who already loves the Vivaldi espresso that a GB5 would be waaaaaaay cooler...

Post by **wgaggl** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:33 pm

Oh here's the emoticon I was looking for

BTW on your pride page I recognized the timer. I thought that model only counts down (not up)?

Post by **Niko** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:38 pm

Great emoticon!

The timer counts up and down, it's pretty nice since it covers the gigantic "S1" logo...

Post by **TruthBrew** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:25 pm

cruelbeanz wrote:
Niko wrote:Boy I can tell, you really want an S5! :D
Oh yeah - I'll need a bigger kitchen first.

Not to detract but here's the vid that made me really want one:

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ6UC6xuQ50

If you really want to get pissed off... go to 'Wich Craft (NYC sandwich shop owned by Tom Colicchio, I think the one on Park Ave) and watch their brutal employees try to make you a cappa on their S5. OUCH! Ever seen anyone stretch the milk after it's been steamed to 170F? I was so excited to see an S5 (and possibly good coffee) in midtown... man what a disappointment.

Post by **bbqnut** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:57 am

Now that I am looking to get rid of my S1VII, I am actually looking at one of the Synesso Cyncra models.

Anyone else looked at these?

http://www.synesso.com/

Post by **hlsheppard** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:09 am

I was actually able to pull a few shots on one last year at a coffee shop in Lansing, MI.

It was sort of a local coffeegeek meeting and they had a 2 group Synesso and a Clover. Both machines were absolutely amazing.

I can't imagine the Synesso price being any better than double the S1(?).

FWIW the shop had just replaced a larger 2 group La Marzocco with the Synesso and said that there was no comparison. It was pretty darned impressive...

:D

Just curious - what is the pricing on the single group? Any idea?

Post by **Niko** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:50 am

hlsheppard wrote: Just curious - what is the pricing on the single group? Any idea?

About 8K.

Post by **Zzyzx** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:16 pm

Doesn't it also come with it's own pump?

Post by **Niko** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:29 pm

You mean a pump which is installed under the counter?
Probably so, but I haven't looked into one of these machines in a while so don't remember. I was looking into a Synesso 1 group before I bought the second Vivaldi, when I did the math it was about 8K for everything.
...but I could be wrong since it was about a year ago and my photographic memory sometimes doesn't have film in it.

Post by **Zzyzx** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:35 pm

Ya, check it out :

http://www.home-barista.com/forums/syne ... -t922.html

Post by **Niko** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:00 pm

Damn you...now I want a Synesso all over again! Who knows, some day in the next few years I might take the plunge but one of the Spaz's stays on a cart afterwards and the other will have to take a hike and be replaced by a Versalabs M3 grinder

If you look closely, he's pulling a shot into a $700 iLLy Espresso Cup!

...and I'm getting that cup too!

Post by **Zzyzx** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:03 pm

LOL

It's a work of art.

Post by **Niko** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:07 pm

You mean the cup or the Synesso?
The cup is lined with 23K Gold

Post by **mdreuben** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:41 pm

I too was lusting after the GS3 to replace my Giotto, but that faded somewhat after I saw the totally uninspired (and cheap) construction in person. The lust totally went out the window when the GS3 price went into the stratosphere.

So yesterday my new VII arrived and I could not be more pleased. I pulled four beautiful shots in a row that looked virtually identical. I made microfoam that poured like marshmallow topping, and I did it for $5,000 less than the GS3.

Yep, I'm a happy guy.

Post by **Zzyzx** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:43 pm

Niko wrote:You mean the cup or the Synesso?
The cup is lined with 23K Gold

D: All The Above :)

Post by **Zzyzx** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:47 pm

mdreuben wrote:The lust totally went out the window when the GS3 price went into the stratosphere.

I'm still completely dumbfounded on how they arrived at this price. Are forging and hand making every part on this thing? I'm sure a lot of people can afford 8K for this machine, but will not do it on principle.

Post by **mdreuben** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:01 pm

Perhaps if the GS3 had drop-dead styling and design, but it doesn't.

The buttons and controls are small and crowded, the top of the group head looks like an afterthought, and there's already been plenty of discussion about the plastic side panels.

I'm not a big fan of the VII's side panels, but you could buy 3 VII's for the price of one GS3.

Post by **Niko** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:07 pm

For that price, I'd go for the Synesso.
It's made here in the States by disgruntled former La Marzocco emplyees, it doesn't get better than that!

The major draw for the GS3 was the size and what it can do...with PID, dual boilers, pour over and plumb in options made it the ultimate catering machine. The price tag really skyrocketed with the middle man here in the States, I don't think this machine will sell very well here on this side of the pond.

The Synesso does most of this stuff except for pour over portability and size. The build quality more than makes up for it since it has dual boilers and PID, I think it surpasses the GS3.
And another thing people don't realize is that the GS3 has a small footprint but who wants to move a 100lb beast back and forth. As for the plastic side panels, I guess they used this material to keep the weight down.

Post by **Zzyzx** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:09 pm

mdreuben wrote: I'm not a big fan of the VII's side panels, but you could buy 3 VII's for the price of one GS3.

I don't mean to split hairs, but it more like 4 :)

Post by **Niko** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:12 pm

mdreuben wrote: I'm not a big fan of the VII's side panels, but you could buy 3 VII's for the price of one GS3.

Looks are really subjective, the VII side panels never gave me a problem unless I had to install them

I never liked to the look of most shiny chromed prosumer HX machines, they're just huge over-the-top super shiny ugly boxy boxes.
At least the Spaz has some sexy curves to it like an Italian sports car.