Good luck Tom, you will love the V2. One thing I did (but not necessary) was to add a T section between the filter and your last shutoff, add a short piece of tube to the extra outlet, a shutoff, and attached any leftover tubing; this is a flusher and pressure relief (so you can open your filter housing). This will make it easier when you change filters. You must flush at least 1-2 gallons of water on a new filter to discharge any loose filter material. You can then do this flush without disconnecting anything! I see no reason at all for a shutoff between filter softener. If you are using the JG fittings things will be very easy. Just cut tubing and push in.
One last thing, and you are probably already aware of it; the filter must follow the softener cartridge to catch any debris from the softener.
Bud
Best plumbing layout? How many shutoff valves (and where)?
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Weska
You can also use the T that Bud describes to lead to an auxilliary faucet mounted somewhere near your sink so that it can hang over it. It will serve the purposes that Bud mentions for flushing new filters and easing the old ones out while providing you with a source of drinking water that has passed through your filter system.
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Martin
Here goes:
(starting at my water source under the sink (which is just inches from the Vivaldi)
1. a shutoff (gate, ball) valve close to the main source in case I need to do some plumbing fixes at that point (I've also got a copper line here that goes to a separate carbon filter for drinking, "hotshot" tap, and icemaker. Vivaldi flow tube at roughly this point exits house through wall. All the rest of the system is outside the kitchen mounted on exterior wall.
2. pressure regulator
3. another shutoff after the p.reg. If I'm outside working on the system, I want a handy shutoff.
4. "T": One line goes to the softener cartridge. The second line is a "by-pass" line designed to allow unsoftened water back into the main Vivaldi feed. My L.A. city water measures 10 grains (by titration, using "Hatch" brand product). The Chris Coffee double canister drops this to 0-1, which is great for the machine, but I can notice a decided flatness to my shots at that low level.
4.1: BYPASS LINE: After the "T", one line goes to the softener, and the other line bypasses the softener. On this bypass line, I have a shutoff valve. This really serves as a "control" or regulator whereby a partial closure allows me to cut the flow volume. It's strictly trial-and-error, but I currently have it at ?? 80% open (a total guess!), and my net hardness out the machine is 4 grain. This seems like an Ok compromise to me.
5. "T" between the soft and carbon filters where the bypass re-enters.
6. One-way flow control just after the softener (out of the softener, before the "T". Don't know if this is necessary, but it seemed like it might keep the water from from "backing up" into the softener. Unlikely, but I had the fitting anyway, and it seemed like a good place to put it.
7. Tube leaves carbon filter and re-enters kitchen. I have another shutoff right out of the braided tube. This is the first thing closed whenever I do any work on the line.
Martin
Doesn't hurt to order an extra 10+ feet of tube (what is it? $.10/ft?). It can be helpful in tight spaces (between the two filters and/or elsewhere) to give an extra loop instead of a straight shot.
Martin
(starting at my water source under the sink (which is just inches from the Vivaldi)
1. a shutoff (gate, ball) valve close to the main source in case I need to do some plumbing fixes at that point (I've also got a copper line here that goes to a separate carbon filter for drinking, "hotshot" tap, and icemaker. Vivaldi flow tube at roughly this point exits house through wall. All the rest of the system is outside the kitchen mounted on exterior wall.
2. pressure regulator
3. another shutoff after the p.reg. If I'm outside working on the system, I want a handy shutoff.
4. "T": One line goes to the softener cartridge. The second line is a "by-pass" line designed to allow unsoftened water back into the main Vivaldi feed. My L.A. city water measures 10 grains (by titration, using "Hatch" brand product). The Chris Coffee double canister drops this to 0-1, which is great for the machine, but I can notice a decided flatness to my shots at that low level.
4.1: BYPASS LINE: After the "T", one line goes to the softener, and the other line bypasses the softener. On this bypass line, I have a shutoff valve. This really serves as a "control" or regulator whereby a partial closure allows me to cut the flow volume. It's strictly trial-and-error, but I currently have it at ?? 80% open (a total guess!), and my net hardness out the machine is 4 grain. This seems like an Ok compromise to me.
5. "T" between the soft and carbon filters where the bypass re-enters.
6. One-way flow control just after the softener (out of the softener, before the "T". Don't know if this is necessary, but it seemed like it might keep the water from from "backing up" into the softener. Unlikely, but I had the fitting anyway, and it seemed like a good place to put it.
7. Tube leaves carbon filter and re-enters kitchen. I have another shutoff right out of the braided tube. This is the first thing closed whenever I do any work on the line.
Martin
Doesn't hurt to order an extra 10+ feet of tube (what is it? $.10/ft?). It can be helpful in tight spaces (between the two filters and/or elsewhere) to give an extra loop instead of a straight shot.
Martin
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BrewHaHa
Interesting what you say about hardness. I have a few relative-noob questions for you (or anyone):Martin wrote:4. "T": One line goes to the softener cartridge. The second line is a "by-pass" line designed to allow unsoftened water back into the main Vivaldi feed. My L.A. city water measures 10 grains (by titration, using "Hatch" brand product). The Chris Coffee double canister drops this to 0-1, which is great for the machine, but I can notice a decided flatness to my shots at that low level.
4.1: BYPASS LINE: After the "T", one line goes to the softener, and the other line bypasses the softener. On this bypass line, I have a shutoff valve. This really serves as a "control" or regulator whereby a partial closure allows me to cut the flow volume. It's strictly trial-and-error, but I currently have it at ?? 80% open (a total guess!), and my net hardness out the machine is 4 grain. This seems like an Ok compromise to me.
Martin
Here in Portland, OR, the city says our water is between 1/3 and 1/2 grains (at a pH of between 7.2 and 8.2). Does that mean that we intrinsically are at a disadvantage? That as good as the espresso is at Portland places like Stumptown or Albina Press, it's not as good as it would be if the water weren't so soft? (Or, perhaps, do the pros everywhere have to soften the feed water to a very low level in order to avoid scaling, and that's just a limitation that has to be lived with?)
Speaking of hardness and scaling, if you're willing to live with 4 grains of hardness, does that mean occaisional de-scaling will be in order?
Even though our water is soft, I bought not only a filter but a softener, mainly because I figured you can't have too soft of water, and that in rare drought times here, well water is added to our normal watershed supply. The city says straight well water is about 5 grains, which they say is classified as moderately hard. (I just got a Vivaldi, and was re-checking these forums for tips on plumbing it in.)
Perhaps I should do the bypass trick you outlined, and leave the softener out of the path unless I know that well water is being mixed in.
-John
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Martin
The standard reference for all things H20 is Jim Schulman's "Insanely Long Water FAQs"Interesting what you say about hardness. I have a few relative-noob questions for you (or anyone):
Here in Portland, OR, the city says our water is between 1/3 and 1/2 grains (at a pH of between 7.2 and 8.2). Does that mean that we intrinsically are at a disadvantage? That as good as the espresso is at Portland places like Stumptown or Albina Press, it's not as good as it would be if the water weren't so soft? (Or, perhaps, do the pros everywhere have to soften the feed water to a very low level in order to avoid scaling, and that's just a limitation that has to be lived with?)
Speaking of hardness and scaling, if you're willing to live with 4 grains of hardness, does that mean occaisional de-scaling will be in order?
Even though our water is soft, I bought not only a filter but a softener, mainly because I figured you can't have too soft of water, and that in rare drought times here, well water is added to our normal watershed supply. The city says straight well water is about 5 grains, which they say is classified as moderately hard. (I just got a Vivaldi, and was re-checking these forums for tips on plumbing it in.)
Perhaps I should do the bypass trick you outlined, and leave the softener out of the path unless I know that well water is being mixed in.
-John
I can't answer regarding commercial practice. I suspect that they soften as close to 0 as they can get. Chris coffee guys acted as if I was a bit wacko by raising some questions about adding hardness. All that said, there is a substantial body of aficionados who claim---with some convincing chemistry behind them----that some hardness is necessary for optimal flavor. Lots of people buy bottled water for their machines. These waters, typically, have some hardness.
I began with softening down to zero in my pour-over Isomac Tea. It didn't take much experimenting to notice that when I added filtered, but hard L.A. City water, the taste improved. 3 to 5 grains seemed to be a lower threshold---below which I could not easily detect an improvement; and above which I noticed only the slightest improvement at a level of hardness that was obviously unwise. So, my best advice is to try your unsoftened water for a couple of weeks. Try totally softened water for a while. See if you notice and if you do, how important is it.
Regarding descaling: I used to descale my Tea from time to time. It was a fairly easy process. Evidently, the Vivaldi is not so easy, but do-able. In another 6 months, I'll re-read some of the posts on how people have done it.
Another alternative I've thought about is to have it professionally descaled and otherwise tuned up-----after a couple of years or more. I've noticed a few LaSpaziale machines on cafe counters around L.A., and I imagine there is service access. Obviously, it would be a chunk of money, but not out of line with other household infrastructure maintenance such as forced air heater repair, roofing repair, vacuum cleaner replacement - - -you get the point.
Martin