Beans storage, parameter alterations, etc. Questions???

[dgasmd]

OK, so I am very new to my Mini and the entire "Espresso Extravaganza Experience (EEE)". Therefore, despite all the reading here and in other sites, I still have a couple of questions that go unanswered. I am hoping some can help here.

1. Length/duration of the extraction. I have a mini with the pre-infusion chamber option. I have read here and in other places the "mini likes" longer extraction times (32-35 sec vs 25-27 sec) when compared to other machines. So, when should I start my timer:
a. when I press the button for the double (60 cc volume)
b. when I first see the drops forming on the bottomless portafilter

2. How do you alter recommended parameters given by the vendors for a particular coffee? I read a lot that on these machines a dose of 15 gram is much better than the traditional doses of 17-19 gram. As in the question above, I also see recommendations of using much longer extraction times. So, if the bean roaster of a particular blend says their recommendation is dose of 18 gram, 26 sec extraction time at 200 degrees how should I translate that to my "mini language"?

3. Storing beans. I read about freezing in jars, vacuum sealing, and such. I was told by one vendor to avoid freezers and refrigeration due to both adding a lot of moisture to the beans, which was very bad. How are you guys doing the freezing? How are you thawing them? Is it OK to use freezer ready ziplock bags and bleeding allt he air out as you lock it? Trying to avoid jars and any other extra equipment if possible.

[slo]

Hello.
Take these answers as they are just suggestions and opinions.

1. Length/duration of the extraction. I have a mini with the pre-infusion chamber option. I have read here and in other places the "mini likes" longer extraction times (32-35 sec vs 25-27 sec) when compared to other machines. So, when should I start my timer:
a. when I press the button for the double (60 cc volume)
b. when I first see the drops forming on the bottomless portafilter

Always start the timer at the moment that you press the machine's button. You may want to adjust the time on your timer based on pre-infusion or your personal preferences. The beading time will change from coffee to coffee, grind finess and tamping pressure.

2. How do you alter recommended parameters given by the vendors for a particular coffee? I read a lot that on these machines a dose of 15 gram is much better than the traditional doses of 17-19 gram. As in the question above, I also see recommendations of using much longer extraction times. So, if the bean roaster of a particular blend says their recommendation is dose of 18 gram, 26 sec extraction time at 200 degrees how should I translate that to my "mini language"?

Well this is easy. I alter to make it taste good! The standard double basket with a regular thick dispersion block will not allow me to dose anything higher than 15.5 grams. For higher dose a triple basket is required. But I rarely "need" a higher dose to make the coffee good. I will not claim to make my shots "optimal". It is a very subjective thing. Some morning I will like a given blend or SO with a higher dose when the day before I liked the standard 14g better.

If you are not yet convinced of the uselessness of my suggestions by now, lets go to question 3...

3. Storing beans. I read about freezing in jars, vacuum sealing, and such. I was told by one vendor to avoid freezers and refrigeration due to both adding a lot of moisture to the beans, which was very bad. How are you guys doing the freezing? How are you thawing them? Is it OK to use freezer ready zip-lock bags and bleeding all the air out as you lock it? Trying to avoid jars and any other extra equipment if possible.

Well, personally, I use Mason Jars. I fill them to the rim to minimise air space. A jar does not use that much more space and is easier to neatly pile in the freezer. And they are not very expensive.
A Zip-lock bag will do the job for sure, but it may let more exchange with the freezer and is more fragile to pin holes and such.
Thawing is easy; Take the coffee container out of the freezer and let it rest unopened until everything is at the room temperature. This will prevent condensation on the beans.
Hope this helps
Cheers.
Sylvain

[dgasmd]

Thanks. That helped!!

[Endo]

I'd recommend you try for 30ml in 30 sec rather than 60ml. Much better tasting IMO. Start with a 16g dose at 93C.

Don't get hung up on the time. Everything from 25 to 40 seconds works.

[GDK]

This container is not the cheapest but is likely the best option for coffee storage. I have two, one small and one large:

http://www.idrinkcoffee.com/Planetary_D ... oz-moc.htm

[slo]

I'd recommend you try for 30ml in 30 sec rather than 60ml. Much better tasting IMO. Start with a 16g dose at 93C.

I am not sure to understand what you mean Endo?
I usually pull doubles in the 60ml (2oz) range with between 14-18g. 16g for 30ml is in the ristretto range that I usually do not like. Although I am sure that their are coffee good in that range, I would not advise it as a base to start.

[Endo]

I'd recommend you try for 30ml in 30 sec rather than 60ml. Much better tasting IMO. Start with a 16g dose at 93C.

I am not sure to understand what you mean Endo?
I usually pull doubles in the 60ml (2oz) range with between 14-18g. 16g for 30ml is in the ristretto range that I usually do not like. Although I am sure that their are coffee good in that range, I would not advise it as a base to start.

The usual defintion of ristretto, espresso and luongo goes 30, 60 and 90ml.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espresso

But I find I much prefer shots on the lower side (less bitter, more flavourful).

I have a 50ml mark on my 49th Parallel latte cups. I never go above that. For straight shots, around 30 to 40 ml. (The 49th parallel espresso cups show a 30ml mark):

49th Parallel Espresso Cups

477361356_ef4366c6fe.jpg (36.65 KiB) Viewed 12650 times

I get the same volume in all the cafes in Montreal (Myriade, Gamba, etc), even when I ask for a espresso (not ristretto). They convinced me smaller is better.

[zedex]

I dont actually agree with timing shots. Every bean is different. If you know what a good shot looks like visually,thats the reference i use. So when i start on a new bean,i watch my shot, if it happens to end when my machine shuts off,...good. If it doesnt,then adjust(reprogram) the time for your new bean. It just so happens that my shot time is about 40 seconds on my V2 for approx 2oz. I timed it after the fact because i was just curious at how long the shot was. Other than that, i dont care.

[slo]

I'd recommend you try for 30ml in 30 sec rather than 60ml. Much better tasting IMO. Start with a 16g dose at 93C.

I am not sure to understand what you mean Endo?
I usually pull doubles in the 60ml (2oz) range with between 14-18g. 16g for 30ml is in the ristretto range that I usually do not like. Although I am sure that their are coffee good in that range, I would not advise it as a base to start.

The usual defintion of ristretto, espresso and luongo goes 30, 60 and 90ml.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espresso

But I find I much prefer shots on the lower side (less bitter, more flavourful).

I have a 50ml mark on my 49th Parallel latte cups. I never go above that. For straight shots, around 30 to 40 ml. (The 49th parallel espresso cups show a 30ml mark):

477361356_ef4366c6fe.jpg

I get the same volume in all the cafes in Montreal (Myriade, Gamba, etc). They convinced me smaller is better.

Taken from the same Wikipedia link that you provided: "The size can be a single, double, or triple, which corresponds roughly to a 1, 2, and 3 US fluid ounce (approximately 30, 60 or 90ml) standard (normale) shot, and use a proportional amount of ground coffee, roughly 7–8, 14–16, and 21–24 grams".

I have no issue with you liking ristrettos, and that is what you are describing, but this is not the norm. At least not for me and not according to Wikipedia. Hey! it is written on the internet it must be true!!
Seriously their are multitudes of arguments in the various forums out there on what should be called an espresso. I am certain that there is a way to make a good espresso with as many methods as there are taste buds in the world. For me the 14-15.5g for a 45 to 60ml double shot is the definition that I find most satisfying. YMMV.

[dgasmd]

Thanks for the words. Just got some low acidity and medium roast blend today. After what it seemed like an eternity to get the right grind, I've settled on 15 grm and about 33-35 sec for a total vol. of about 45-50 cc. Seemed to taste good, but certainly not sure I would call it awesome. I actually like my espresso on the mellow and sweet side with chocolate and caramel taste rather than bold and strong. Will have to play a bit more with it!

If anyone have some blends they could recommend that meet those descriptions above, I would appreciate it too.

[Endo]

Taken from the same Wikipedia link that you provided: "The size can be a single, double, or triple, which corresponds roughly to a 1, 2, and 3 US fluid ounce (approximately 30, 60 or 90ml) standard (normale) shot, and use a proportional amount of ground coffee, roughly 7–8, 14–16, and 21–24 grams".

I have no issue with you liking ristrettos, and that is what you are describing, but this is not the norm. At least not for me and not according to Wikipedia. Hey! it is written on the internet it must be true!!

The Wikipedia reference gets even more confusing when you read the paragraph after the one you referenced, called "length".

"The length of the shot can be ristretto (restricted), normale/standard (normal), or lungo (long): these correspond to a smaller or larger drink with the same amount of ground coffee and same level of extraction. Proportions vary, and the volume (and low density) of crema make volume-based comparisons difficult (precise measurement uses the mass of the drink), but proportions of 1:1, 1:2, and 1:3–4 are common for ristretto, normale, and lungo, corresponding to 1, 2, and 3–4 US fl oz (30 ml, 60 ml, 90–120 ml) for a double shot. Ristretto is the most commonly used of these terms, and double or triple ristrettos are particularly associated with artisanal espresso."

Not sure what all this means exactly. Seems like several people writing the same definition. Gotta love Wikipedpedia.

In any case, not to get too off topic, as you say, what I was describing is best described as a double ristretto I would think. They are not the espresso standard, but one might argue they are what is serve most often these days at good cafes when one asks for an espresso.

One funny thing I noticed is when I occasionally go to a crap roadstop cafe, when I ask for an espresso, they almost always serve me a extra long lungo (caffe crema) with stale grounds (they must assume more is better).