Dialing in grinder

[jmcphail]

In getting to know my new grinder and espresso machine I chose an espresso that seems to be widely appreciated and forgiving, Black Cat.

I went through a dialing-in exercise like so:

1. grind and dose a 14g double, tamp normally and consistently

2. using a timer, pull a @ 2oz. into a marked shot glass

3. if @2oz were produced in less than 25 seconds, I adjusted the grind finer and started over at step 1

4. if @2oz were produced in greater than 25 seconds, I adjusted the grind coarser and started over at step 1


Once the grind was adjusted, I programmed the double shot button and went on my merry way, adjusting temp to taste and generally enjoying life.

Tonight I finished my 2 lbs. of Black Cat and started on my new stash, from a local roaster and espresso joint. I don't know enough to grade them on quality, but recently the *$'s *right next door* to them closed its doors ( :D ) ...

I went through my dialing-in exercise with the new beans. The new batch seemed like a lighter roast and was described by the PBTC as similar to Espresso Vivace's Dolce, and they had their machines set to 204F - all clues to me that I needed a more aggressive extraction, higher brew temperature, finer grind, etc. Anyway, I kept tightening up the grind by what I thought were large amounts, but still the doubles poured too fast. Checking the pucks, they remained dry! So I kept on turning the knob, pulling shots and timing them.

When I ended up at @ 2oz at 25 seconds, I looked at the dial and it was at 1.75! It was previously at 3.75. This is what astounded me - with the Black Cat I had dialed in 3.75 - 4.00 on the dial and could introduce sour and bitter by adjusting the grind slightly in either direction ( it's a La Cimbali Max/Hybrid ).

I'm staring at the bottom of my cup right now, and there are very minimal fines down there, nothing I'd be frightened of, they don't seem excessive. I didn't taste the intermediate shots during the dial in, but now I'm thinking I should have; the shot I just drank was delicious - floral, sweet, chocolatey, and a little bit of sweet berry in the aftertaste. I brewed at 95C on La Spaz's control panel. The crema came out in globs, very thick and red and long-lasting. I like this espresso!

I'm getting off track, sorry! I'm kind of freaked out by how much I had to adjust the grind to dial back in, and wonder if others have experienced the same thing when changing beans?

I also notice that at this grind, if I gorilla-tamp I get the 3 amber lights of doom, although the shot still pours. I also notice that I'm brewing at a lower pressure than before, which I attribute to getting the pressure regulator installed - I was at an even 9 bars before, now I'm somewhere around 8.5 bars. I hadn't dialed in again after installing the pressure regulator.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this, maybe my method is flawed?

[JohnB]

What is the adjustment range on your grinder? The Macap runs from #1-9 with 10 notches between each number. With Black Cat I was in the 3.3 area most of the time, Liquid Amber was 2.9-3.0 & the Barrington was somewhere in between. With decaf beans I've dropped down to 2.7 but thats the extent of my grinding variations so far. True zero is around 1.3 so most Espresso grinding is 1.5-2 numbers up from there.

[jmcphail]

The grinder dial indicator number is visible through a little window on the front of the grinder, and the entire dial is not visible all at once. I've never explored the dial enough to know how large the numbers become before starting over, but I believe they go into the 20s or 30's, that they roll over to 0 at the end, and that the grinder is not zeroed on 0.

If the numbers go as high as I think they might, the amount that the dial was actually changed is actually a tiny percentage of the total possible travel, so what seemed like a big change is actually a small change?

[JohnB]

Looking at the pics of your grinder on CC's website it looks like the space between numbers would equal about 3 teeth on my adjuster ring. So changing down 6-7 teeth when changing blends isn't a huge amount particularly if one was dark & the other light. Since your burrs are bigger then my 58mm burrs the difference in the change would probably be even less then on mine.

[jmcphail]

This is beginning to sound relieving. So have you experienced a coffee that requires that degree of grinder adjustment to dial in?

[JohnB]

There was a 4-5 tooth difference(finer) on my worm adjuster between the B/C & Liquid Amber. Since I normally use more then 14g in the basket my grind would be a little coarser then yours. When you break your grinder down to clean out the burrs you will get a much better idea of how far its actually moving when you turn the worm adjuster.

I removed the burrs from the Macap this morning for the first time & found quite a bit of old grounds that gets packed in under there. Much, much more time consuming then cleaning my KA Pro if you want to get everything out.

[jmcphail]

Thanks for the advice. Learning experience and all that!

[MrMonkey]

I hate to even bring up the topic, but are grinding 'per-shot' with the Cimbali Max?

I bought a Max in November and was grinding per-shot like I did with my previous grinder. Like you, I was seeing BIG differences in grind settings for different coffees. Then, because of a thread on the 'Home Barista' site I started leaving enough beans in the grinder so that I would never grind when the hopper was empty. Using this method, I have not had to make such BIG grinder setting changes when changing coffees.

[jmcphail]

Hrmm. There is no doubt I have a lot to learn about my grinder, and that it works better overall when the hopper has beans in it, as opposed to just having beans in the grind chamber.

I keep about 1/4 lb. in the hopper, estimating. I think the grinder tends to "popcorn" when there aren't any beans above the grind chamber; I've been using the little horizontal sliding door to close off the grind chamber when I'm at the end of a hopperful.

When adjusting the grind I've been careful to do it when actually grinding beans.

MrMonkey, I don't understand how what you're saying changes what grind to use for a given bean?

[MrMonkey]

MrMonkey, I don't understand how what you're saying changes what grind to use for a given bean?

I really wasn't trying to imply that it did. My only observation was that trying to 'grind per-shot' with the MAX resulted in BIG grinder setting changes when switching between some coffees. The changes are still there when leaving coffee in hopper, they are just not as big.

I've had this grinder for a littel over 2 months now and am still learning.

[jmcphail]

I just did something that eases my mind about my grind - I ground 14g of a Brazil I'm playing with and pulled a double without changing from my new grind settings.

I've only previously seen this in pictures, but the shot had a black ring in the crema, and was bitter.

In the past I've wavered about whether a shot was bitter, sour, or just right. No mistaking it this time, it was well and truly bitter. And the black ring, same thing. No mistaking it.

Then I ground and pulled a shot of the blend I'd used to dial in the grinder - no black ring, no bitter taste.

As a newbie, it's a revelation to see the things I've only read about happening in front of my face. Lots to learn!

[Trailhead]

jmcphail

I have been reading your posts with great interest. I have been doing extensive research for the past several months trying to determin which machine and grinder to purchase. It is amazing how much one can learn simply by lurking.

I have just about made my decision. Like you, I think a good combination is the S1 with the Max/Hybrid.

I now find myself taking notes on coffee brands and grinder settings. I must be getting close to pulling the trigger.

Thanks for the insight.
:D

[jmcphail]

Glad to have helped, it makes me proud that my bumbling and mistakes can help someone else.

Credit where credit is due - I think there is much value in what the members of this forum and the hosts of this board provide.

Thanks, Trailhead!