I dedicate this thread to Eric in Liverpool (go Reds!).
By now he's probably used to his new baby and I'd like to know a little more about it, sure I can visit other websites (like I already have) and read all about it but what makes his unique is the fact that it's the latest incarnation of that grinder (with all the latest updates) and more importantly he's got a La Spaz VII.
So I want to hear all about it, Eric.
The Good.
The Bad...
and if there's any Ugly.
Versalab M3 Grinder
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Niko
Versalab M3 Grinder
Last edited by Niko on Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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EricC
Hi Niko,
Thanks for the thread. :D
I have been using the Versalab M3 Grinder for a few weeks now and i still love it.
This is the latest version of the grinder, IE it has the new motor pulley with teeth, the grind scale with marker dots and the optional portafilter holder ( but more on this later ).
I am very pleased that i bought it to replace my Mazzer Mini E (type A). It is a very personal thing but I think, and thankfully my wife agrees too, that the Versalab is a great looking piece of kit, if you like that sort of thing.
It is slightly noisier than the Mazzer and i put this down to the fact that it has a much more open grind path than all other grinders that i know of, it really growls as the beans are going through. You have to feed the beans through as opposed to just dumping them in so you don't risk the occasional chance of getting any flying back out of the top funnel. You must also set the grinder running BEFORE putting the beans in to be ground.
The grind adjustment is extremely easy as you just undo the locking screw on the side and turn the top funnel, clockwise for finer and anti-clockwise for coarser. Apparently because the thread on the top funnel is that much finer than the thread on the grind adjustment on the Mazzer you can get a much finer range of adjustments from the Versalab.
The grinds from the Versalab are completely different to any other grinder that i have tried. There is absolutely no clumping at all. The grinds appear to be very consistent in their size and consistancy (but i have no way of measuring or confirming this). The output into the portafilter is like nothing that you have seen before and looks like a volcano of coffee grinds. This is because there is a wiper attatched to the bottom burr carrier which spins inside and almost touching the bottom funnel creating a vortex, like a mini tornado which spins the grinds outwards and this fills the portafilter from the outer edge as opoosed to all other grinders which dump the grinds into the centre of the portafilter. This leads to a donut shape of grinds in the portafilter and i use a flat edge. the rear of a knife blade to fillin the hole and level the grinds and then tamp, although this technique does not allow you to up-dose.
I should also mention here that with a 58mm portafilter the bottom of the lower funnel fits inside the portafilter basket, with the LaSpaz's 53mm basket size this lower edge rests on the basket edge. This allows a very small ammount of coffee to gather on the edge of the basket and when the portafilter / basket are removed from the bottom funnel this coffee can drop off, however it is a very minimal ammount and when ballanced againt the positives of the grinder is neither here nor there.
Without the portafilter holder you will have to hold the portafilter underneath with one hand whilst feeding the beans in with the other which is quite easy, but if you have the portafilter holder ............
The portafilter holder is an optional extra which i think is well worth the money.
Especially since after receiving my grinder and commenting that the arms on the existing holder were a little too wide for the LaSpaz 53mm portafilter, Laura from Versalab contacted me to announce that they, Versalab, were fashioning a portafilter holder especially for the LaSpaz size portafilters and would send me one to try out as soon as it is ready.
This is excellent customer support and shows that Versalab are listening to their customers and are prepared to come up with variations in their product for specific uses.
I can't wait for this to arrive so that i can try it out. :D :D :D
So, all in all i am positive that at least for me the Versalab M3 Grinder is the ultimate home grinder. :D :D :D
Regards
Eric
Thanks for the thread. :D
I have been using the Versalab M3 Grinder for a few weeks now and i still love it.
This is the latest version of the grinder, IE it has the new motor pulley with teeth, the grind scale with marker dots and the optional portafilter holder ( but more on this later ).
I am very pleased that i bought it to replace my Mazzer Mini E (type A). It is a very personal thing but I think, and thankfully my wife agrees too, that the Versalab is a great looking piece of kit, if you like that sort of thing.
It is slightly noisier than the Mazzer and i put this down to the fact that it has a much more open grind path than all other grinders that i know of, it really growls as the beans are going through. You have to feed the beans through as opposed to just dumping them in so you don't risk the occasional chance of getting any flying back out of the top funnel. You must also set the grinder running BEFORE putting the beans in to be ground.
The grind adjustment is extremely easy as you just undo the locking screw on the side and turn the top funnel, clockwise for finer and anti-clockwise for coarser. Apparently because the thread on the top funnel is that much finer than the thread on the grind adjustment on the Mazzer you can get a much finer range of adjustments from the Versalab.
The grinds from the Versalab are completely different to any other grinder that i have tried. There is absolutely no clumping at all. The grinds appear to be very consistent in their size and consistancy (but i have no way of measuring or confirming this). The output into the portafilter is like nothing that you have seen before and looks like a volcano of coffee grinds. This is because there is a wiper attatched to the bottom burr carrier which spins inside and almost touching the bottom funnel creating a vortex, like a mini tornado which spins the grinds outwards and this fills the portafilter from the outer edge as opoosed to all other grinders which dump the grinds into the centre of the portafilter. This leads to a donut shape of grinds in the portafilter and i use a flat edge. the rear of a knife blade to fillin the hole and level the grinds and then tamp, although this technique does not allow you to up-dose.
I should also mention here that with a 58mm portafilter the bottom of the lower funnel fits inside the portafilter basket, with the LaSpaz's 53mm basket size this lower edge rests on the basket edge. This allows a very small ammount of coffee to gather on the edge of the basket and when the portafilter / basket are removed from the bottom funnel this coffee can drop off, however it is a very minimal ammount and when ballanced againt the positives of the grinder is neither here nor there.
Without the portafilter holder you will have to hold the portafilter underneath with one hand whilst feeding the beans in with the other which is quite easy, but if you have the portafilter holder ............
The portafilter holder is an optional extra which i think is well worth the money.
Especially since after receiving my grinder and commenting that the arms on the existing holder were a little too wide for the LaSpaz 53mm portafilter, Laura from Versalab contacted me to announce that they, Versalab, were fashioning a portafilter holder especially for the LaSpaz size portafilters and would send me one to try out as soon as it is ready.
This is excellent customer support and shows that Versalab are listening to their customers and are prepared to come up with variations in their product for specific uses.
I can't wait for this to arrive so that i can try it out. :D :D :D
So, all in all i am positive that at least for me the Versalab M3 Grinder is the ultimate home grinder. :D :D :D
Regards
Eric
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Niko
Nice!
I'd love to see one of those in action.
So how would you compare the sound between the Mazzer and that one? I know two of my grinders (Mazzer & MACAP) don't sound anything alike. I prefer the throaty throttle of the Maz.
Interesting how you have to operate the Versalab by dropping in the beans after you fire it up, same goes for adjustments on any grinder - run it while you move the collar...
I've seen pics showing that tornando-like vortex from that grinder, very interesting. Did you notice an immediate difference in the cup quality? I'm more interested in distribution in how and if it really reduces channeling and so on. Does this grinder really remove another variable for you to achieve that ultimate shot?
I'd love to see one of those in action.
So how would you compare the sound between the Mazzer and that one? I know two of my grinders (Mazzer & MACAP) don't sound anything alike. I prefer the throaty throttle of the Maz.
Interesting how you have to operate the Versalab by dropping in the beans after you fire it up, same goes for adjustments on any grinder - run it while you move the collar...
I've seen pics showing that tornando-like vortex from that grinder, very interesting. Did you notice an immediate difference in the cup quality? I'm more interested in distribution in how and if it really reduces channeling and so on. Does this grinder really remove another variable for you to achieve that ultimate shot?
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EricC
I'd say that the sound is different to the Mazzer due to the two sets of burrs.Niko wrote:Nice!
I'd love to see one of those in action.
So how would you compare the sound between the Mazzer and that one? I know two of my grinders (Mazzer & MACAP) don't sound anything alike. I prefer the throaty throttle of the Maz.
Interesting how you have to operate the Versalab by dropping in the beans after you fire it up, same goes for adjustments on any grinder - run it while you move the collar...
I've seen pics showing that tornando-like vortex from that grinder, very interesting. Did you notice an immediate difference in the cup quality? I'm more interested in distribution in how and if it really reduces channeling and so on. Does this grinder really remove another variable for you to achieve that ultimate shot?
The first set being the Conical Burrs feeding through to the Flat Burrs as opposed to the Mazzers use of Flat Burrs only in the Mini, plus the fact that the Mazzers Burrs being deeper inside the body of the machine.
Due to the total lack of partial bean retention in the Versalab you can adjust the grind setting with the grinder switched off.
I did notice an immediate difference at least for me, the shots were sweeter with thicker pours. As to the distribution, i find that there is absolutely no need for any of the trick ditribution techniques anymore. With my Mazzer Mini E I used to have to break up clumping from the grinder and redistribute the coffee afterwards, with the Versalab M3 Grinder there is no clumping at all and all i have to do is fill in the crater in the centre / level with a straight edge and tamp away.
For me this does help to remove another variable, but i'm still a new boy with this grinder. :D
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Niko
Really? Do you adjust yours with the unit OFF?EricC wrote: Due to the total lack of partial bean retention in the Versalab you can adjust the grind setting with the grinder switched off.
I also like the fact that you don't do any special shennanigens to get a decent shot with that thing - You know, like put a special funnel in the basket, stir the grinds to get rid of clumps and slay a few chickens over the Vivaldi to get rid of any voodoo.
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Weska
Because I always (for now, I don't say always always) run a single shot through the MACAP M4, I adjust grind with the motor off. Never had a problem.
Mind you, I run the grinder until the sound indicates it's empty, clear the chute and dust down the throat above the burrs, pulse once, sweep out the chute again, pulse again, sweep again. So, it is pretty empty. Usually, I get within a couple of tenths of a gram of the amount I put in.
With so little coffee left between the burrs, I anticipated no problem however I adjusted, and I found none.
Easy then to believe that the Versalab, which is designed to retain nothing in the burrs, would behave the same.
Mind you, I run the grinder until the sound indicates it's empty, clear the chute and dust down the throat above the burrs, pulse once, sweep out the chute again, pulse again, sweep again. So, it is pretty empty. Usually, I get within a couple of tenths of a gram of the amount I put in.
With so little coffee left between the burrs, I anticipated no problem however I adjusted, and I found none.
Easy then to believe that the Versalab, which is designed to retain nothing in the burrs, would behave the same.
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Niko
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EricC
Yes, and as Weska mentioned with his grinder above, there is very little left between the burrs after grinding for a shot.Niko wrote:Really? Do you adjust yours with the unit OFF?
I also like the fact that you don't do any special shennanigens to get a decent shot with that thing - You know, like put a special funnel in the basket, stir the grinds to get rid of clumps and slay a few chickens over the Vivaldi to get rid of any voodoo.
The grind adjustment is so light and easy once the locking screw has been released that any obstruction would be easily felt.
Plus the fact that the burrs are up to speed before the beans are inserted may help.
No, no ritual slaughter or incantations required.
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coffeeowl
Is it really dangerous to adjust the grind setting (on Mazzer) with the motor off?
I've put more then one dose of coffee into the chute for I have read somewhere that the grind becomes coarser if there isn't enough beans in the chute, and I grind per shot. If I was to adjust it running then so much coffee would go leftover.
edit: typos
I've put more then one dose of coffee into the chute for I have read somewhere that the grind becomes coarser if there isn't enough beans in the chute, and I grind per shot. If I was to adjust it running then so much coffee would go leftover.
edit: typos
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Niko
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Weska
"Dangerous" might overstate it a bit, coffeeowl.
The necessity of adjusting while running is advice that I've mostly heard in connection with MACAPs, and that may have something to do with the Mazzer's spring-loaded burr.
As I understand it, the reason a grinder could jam when adjusted while it's off is that coffee between the burrs becomes compressed between the burrs. When the rotating burr starts trying to turn, it just pushes the trapped coffee into the stationary burr but, without a running start, there might not be enough force to chop the coffee and restore motion. If it's tightly compacted the trapped coffee might not allow you to back off the adjustment. Then you are truly jammed up.
Would it ruin the machine? Yes, if you left it straining long enough to overheat some of the electrical components. There might be protective circuits that cut out first. If you shut it right off as soon as it jams, you probably will need to disassemble the burrs as if for a deep cleaning--but nothing worse should come of it.
Again, if I understand all this correctly, no jamming at all could occur from adjusting coarser when idle. And it's more likely to jam if the degree of adjustment is large.
Nevertheless, the safest practice is to adjust while running, and the safest way to form that habit is never to make an exception. However, if you slip up sometime and the adjustment was small, and you're standing right by the machine alert to its operation, then chances of permanent damage are not worth a lot of worry.
Second safest way is my way, to keep pulsing until most of the coffee is spun out from between the burrs, but you can't keep a loaded hopper for that to work.
The necessity of adjusting while running is advice that I've mostly heard in connection with MACAPs, and that may have something to do with the Mazzer's spring-loaded burr.
As I understand it, the reason a grinder could jam when adjusted while it's off is that coffee between the burrs becomes compressed between the burrs. When the rotating burr starts trying to turn, it just pushes the trapped coffee into the stationary burr but, without a running start, there might not be enough force to chop the coffee and restore motion. If it's tightly compacted the trapped coffee might not allow you to back off the adjustment. Then you are truly jammed up.
Would it ruin the machine? Yes, if you left it straining long enough to overheat some of the electrical components. There might be protective circuits that cut out first. If you shut it right off as soon as it jams, you probably will need to disassemble the burrs as if for a deep cleaning--but nothing worse should come of it.
Again, if I understand all this correctly, no jamming at all could occur from adjusting coarser when idle. And it's more likely to jam if the degree of adjustment is large.
Nevertheless, the safest practice is to adjust while running, and the safest way to form that habit is never to make an exception. However, if you slip up sometime and the adjustment was small, and you're standing right by the machine alert to its operation, then chances of permanent damage are not worth a lot of worry.
Second safest way is my way, to keep pulsing until most of the coffee is spun out from between the burrs, but you can't keep a loaded hopper for that to work.
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michael
mazzer adjustments
i almost always adjust my mazzer with the machine off; so far no problems
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Niko
That's because you probably only grind for espresso.
I've talked to someone who used his grinder for some drip (coarse grind) and then switched back to espresso (without the motor running)...his grinder seized up.
So I assume it's more of a problem for those who grind at various settings with large moves between drip, espresso and french press.
I've talked to someone who used his grinder for some drip (coarse grind) and then switched back to espresso (without the motor running)...his grinder seized up.
So I assume it's more of a problem for those who grind at various settings with large moves between drip, espresso and french press.
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Weska
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coffeeowl
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Niko
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coffeeowl
I stopped having any worries, I weight the beans before dosing it to the hopper and dose per shot then run the Mazzer until it's empty. That way I can adjust the grind any time I want.
I'm sure I will buy Versalab one day (but Hottop P first! )
Did you receive it?EricC wrote:Especially since after receiving my grinder and commenting that the arms on the existing holder were a little too wide for the LaSpaz 53mm portafilter, Laura from Versalab contacted me to announce that they, Versalab, were fashioning a portafilter holder especially for the LaSpaz size portafilters and would send me one to try out as soon as it is ready
I'm sure I will buy Versalab one day (but Hottop P first!
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EricC
EricC wrote:Laura from Versalab contacted me to announce that they, Versalab, were fashioning a portafilter holder especially for the LaSpaz size portafilters and would send me one to try out as soon as it is ready
Not yet coffeeowl, Laura advised me that they were still working on it.coffeeowl wrote: Did you receive it?
I'm sure I will buy Versalab one day (but Hottop P first!
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Cafesp
Versalab M3 was my 1st candidate grinder but i was steered off after reading Jim's issues.(http://www.home-barista.com/forums/vers ... -t408.html)
I miss Versalab's straight down, no clumping distribution, doseless unique style as well as Black Mazzer Mini Sexy curve lines(perfect matching VII).
I might get V m3 for 2nd grinder in the future.
Just wait and see how the new version coming up.
Cafesp
I miss Versalab's straight down, no clumping distribution, doseless unique style as well as Black Mazzer Mini Sexy curve lines(perfect matching VII).
I might get V m3 for 2nd grinder in the future.
Just wait and see how the new version coming up.
Cafesp
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Richard
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Niko
Here's the other thread: http://www.rimpo.org/wforum/viewtopic.p ... highlight=
Chas might merge the two threads together.
I'm re-interested in the M3 again just because of how unique the grind quality really is, there truly isn't anything like it out there. Sure the price tag is a bit shocking but I think you get what you pay for. There really isn't anything remotely close to it. I've looked into the Mazzer Kony but that thing is a clumpmaster and not to mention it's a monolith.
I've read the same thing somewhere about a "new" model...not sure if they were talking about the M3 grinder or the M3 espresso machine, I know they're still working things out with the espresso machine.
Chas might merge the two threads together.
I'm re-interested in the M3 again just because of how unique the grind quality really is, there truly isn't anything like it out there. Sure the price tag is a bit shocking but I think you get what you pay for. There really isn't anything remotely close to it. I've looked into the Mazzer Kony but that thing is a clumpmaster and not to mention it's a monolith.
I've read the same thing somewhere about a "new" model...not sure if they were talking about the M3 grinder or the M3 espresso machine, I know they're still working things out with the espresso machine.
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Cafesp
"Just wait and see how the new version coming up"
Sorry, I did not make it clear! What I meant is Just wait and see how Versalab new grinder come out afer fixing, updating or(whatever we call it!).
Versalab grinder is still in my heart; but I've learned dearly from my 1st year car model mistake! So still wait and see.
Richarrd, can you show me where I can read your post. Thanks.
Cafesp
* never mind, I've read your post thr. Niko's link
Sorry, I did not make it clear! What I meant is Just wait and see how Versalab new grinder come out afer fixing, updating or(whatever we call it!).
Versalab grinder is still in my heart; but I've learned dearly from my 1st year car model mistake! So still wait and see.
Richarrd, can you show me where I can read your post. Thanks.
Cafesp
* never mind, I've read your post thr. Niko's link
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Richard
Cafesp, insofar as I know, the negative posts about the M3 are ancient history. So far as I can tell, Versalab has continued to improve and make modifications to address the issues. If they are designing a new grinder or any fundamental changes to the M3, I'm unaware of it.Cafesp wrote:"Just wait and see how the new version coming up"
Sorry, I did not make it clear! What I meant is Just wait and see how Versalab new grinder come out afer fixing, updating or(whatever we call it!).
Versalab grinder is still in my heart; but I've learned dearly from my 1st year car model mistake! So still wait and see.
Richarrd, can you show me where I can read your post. Thanks.
Cafesp
* never mind, I've read your post thr. Niko's link
I don't own an M3. I have read everything I can find in print, online or elsewhere, and probably will buy one at some point. Meanwhile, the Mazzer Mini E does the job.
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EricC
I have had many conversations with Laura and there has been absolutely no mention of a "new version" of the grinder.Cafesp wrote:Just wait and see how the new version coming up.
Cafesp
The situation is exactly as Richard has said, in that Versalab constantly take on board customers comments and "improve" the M3 as best they can, or as in the case of the LaSpaz PF holder, design a special version of the PF holder specifically for the LaSpaz and all other machines that take a 53mm portafilter.
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acman8
Seems like a significant savings over current price if anyone is interested in this grinder.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Versalab-M3-Espress ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Versalab-M3-Espress ... dZViewItem
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hlsheppard
Re: mazzer adjustments
Same here...michael wrote:i almost always adjust my mazzer with the machine off; so far no problems
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Niko
That's the original price for that grinder.acman8 wrote:Seems like a significant savings over current price if anyone is interested in this grinder.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Versalab-M3-Espress ... dZViewItem
And by the looks of the pic, it looks like that one didn't get all the updates done to it. For instance, the scale is missing.
Not a bad price but that person is pretty much selling it for what they paid :?
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EricC
Hi Niko,Niko wrote:That's the original price for that grinder.
And by the looks of the pic, it looks like that one didn't get all the updates done to it. For instance, the scale is missing.
Not a bad price but that person is pretty much selling it for what they paid :?
If you are in the market for one, and this one is in perfect working order, then i personally would go for it.
All of the improvements to the grinder are retro-fittable, and the scale is just stick-on. When i received my grinder, the scale and the portafilter holder had to be fitted by me. They are readilly available directly from Versalab if you contact Laura. :D :D :D
Eric
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Niko
That's the thing...I'm not sure that M3 is perfect working order. Bearings could be shot as well as a bunch of other issues and without another M3 to compare it to, I wouldn't know where to start. This unit is located out of my area, if it were within a 2 hour drive I'd probably contact the seller to test it out. Sometimes it's not worth saving $500 for an out of warranty headache 
Then again...
Then again...
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Cafesp
Niko,
You& Me read the same book! "Sometimes it's not worth saving $500 for an out of warranty headache "
Actually I did email sender and seriously like to check it out (b/c within my driving distance and dropping by to see my friends as well).
So far seller has not contact me yet!
So...for M3, just waitnsee again!
I'm very happy with my Cimbali Max Hybrid, no clumping issues in doser n out to pf, sweeping good too! just missing M3 for its straight-down, doserless style.
Save!!! $$$$ for Hottop???
Cafesp
You& Me read the same book! "Sometimes it's not worth saving $500 for an out of warranty headache "
Actually I did email sender and seriously like to check it out (b/c within my driving distance and dropping by to see my friends as well).
So far seller has not contact me yet!
So...for M3, just waitnsee again!
I'm very happy with my Cimbali Max Hybrid, no clumping issues in doser n out to pf, sweeping good too! just missing M3 for its straight-down, doserless style.
Save!!! $$$$ for Hottop???
Cafesp
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Niko
That's what the ultimate plan is.
The Mazzer was irritating me for a while, that problem is fixed so we're on speaking terms again
The MACAP...well the MACAP is pulling the heavy loads for drip and press coffee so I plan on keeping this one for a few more years and besides, it's a fantastic grinder (and most versatile) to use in any situation.
The Mazzer was irritating me for a while, that problem is fixed so we're on speaking terms again
The MACAP...well the MACAP is pulling the heavy loads for drip and press coffee so I plan on keeping this one for a few more years and besides, it's a fantastic grinder (and most versatile) to use in any situation.
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EricC
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EricC