My wife and I own a small Ice Cream and Coffee Shop in Pine Mountain, GA. In the past, the shop was more of an Ice Cream Parlor. We are trying to expand the coffee side of the business. We currently have an espresso machine that uses pods (Espresso Italia). This machine was here when we purchased the business. We are about ready to throw this thing out the window.
We first saw the S1 at Coffee Fest in Vegas earlier this year. We really liked its size because we don't have much space (about 300 sq. ft.). We also liked its apperance and its features (mainly the double boiler). I've spoken with Chris Coffee Service about the S1. I think it is reasonably priced compared to other machines we saw at Coffee Fest. We are not a high volume coffee retailer, yet, so I think it may be a good first machine for us. So, my first question would be....Do any of you S1 owners know of any reasons why the S1 may not be a good fit for our business??
Also, are there any other "must haves" that any of you would recommend from Chris Coffee Service, or any other company? What about a grinder? Chris recommended the new MACAP grinder that he's carrying, I've also heard the Mazzer is a good one to have. Ok, I've asked alot of questions, so I'll shut up. Thank you in advance for your thoughts. I've really enjoyed reading the posts on this site.
What to buy?
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Johan Lindroos
Re: What to buy?
One of the things you should think of is that you probably sometimes want to make single and double espressos respectively. With a one group machine you can only have one handle warm at at time. Otherwise the handle cools the coffee and you risk i to be less han perfect temperature. A simple fix to this is of course to only make singles or doubles!
In my opinion, the grinder is as important as the machine, if not more. Therefore if I would be you, I would look more towards a low speed conical grinder. I also look foor a new grinder. Today I have a large Brasilia with large flat burrs, which I will replace with a conical type.
I have looked for a number of grinders recently, and the ones that I have found to be most interesting, are frpm Nuova Simonelli and La Cimbali.
For example
Nuova Simonelli "MDXC"
and
La Cimbali "Max" or "Conik"
or maybe Faema "MC"
Both of tham are very hard to find in Sweden. Even the distributors themselves doesn
In my opinion, the grinder is as important as the machine, if not more. Therefore if I would be you, I would look more towards a low speed conical grinder. I also look foor a new grinder. Today I have a large Brasilia with large flat burrs, which I will replace with a conical type.
I have looked for a number of grinders recently, and the ones that I have found to be most interesting, are frpm Nuova Simonelli and La Cimbali.
For example
Nuova Simonelli "MDXC"
and
La Cimbali "Max" or "Conik"
or maybe Faema "MC"
Both of tham are very hard to find in Sweden. Even the distributors themselves doesn
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wgaggl
PurpleCow,
I know your posting is a while back and you might already have decided on a machine. But as other people are in a similar situation I'd like to post my 1 penny worth opinion (just on the espresso machine, the grinder is another important topic):
The S1 is not fit for a business. I have used it at home, as as several others here I sometimes serve a few more people (after all, I've the best coffee in my neighborhood
). Eventhough your average volume might be low, there will be peaks where you will have to serve a group at once, and they will not apprecciate, if you either bring them one or two cups at a time, or let them wait for a while just to be able to serve them all together. You will have to be able to cover these peaks. Making good coffee takes time, and I noticed, that the maximum rate on the S1 of approx. 60 doubles per hour isn't possible to keep up for practical considerations (especially when preparing different types of coffee drinks).
Furthermore, the steam boiler might be large for a single group machine, but you'll notice, that it's not large enough if you have to serve a variety of drinks, like someone might like a hot chocolate, someone a cappuccino, someone a tea. If you use water from the steam boiler it will make you wait a while until you can use steam again.
Johan already pointed out, that you can only have one portafilter ready at a time but as David Schomer pointed out, good espresso is typically achieved with short pulls, and Americans aren't used to such small quantities like 0.8 ounces, so rather make double ristrettos with approx. 1.5 ounces, if someone wants a straight espresso.
Next point, to keep your handle warm all the time, you probably want to flush old coffeegrinds under the S1 hot water spout. This will cost you time to be able to steam again, it also fills up the drip pan quite quickly, so you will have to keep empying that often (if you have your machine sitting for a while you also want to pull blank shots to make sure all components are at the same temperature, and at some point I stopped turning to the sink to empty shotglasses with water); better to also have your machine plumbed out.
For outstanding service you also want to prewarm your cups on top of the machine. As you don't know what will come up, you want to have a variety of cups up there. There might be room for enough espresso cups, but remember, you'll also additionally need cappuccino cups, preferably in two sizes for single and double, the large cups you'll also need for latte. Plus you never know if there's a bigger group coming in. I found that it's not possible to accommodate for that with the S1 cup warmer. I started using the hot water spout to bring cups to temperature, on the downside I lost steam capability for a while after drawing water (the hot water tap at the sink usually isn't hot enough to bring cups to the right temperature fast enough).
Overall, as a coffeegeek I really love the S1, but even if not all of the above applies to your situation, I think you don't want a one group machine like the S1 for a coffee shop (even low volume) if you're serious about it (and we know that's always necessary if you want customers).
Wolfgang
I know your posting is a while back and you might already have decided on a machine. But as other people are in a similar situation I'd like to post my 1 penny worth opinion (just on the espresso machine, the grinder is another important topic):
The S1 is not fit for a business. I have used it at home, as as several others here I sometimes serve a few more people (after all, I've the best coffee in my neighborhood
). Eventhough your average volume might be low, there will be peaks where you will have to serve a group at once, and they will not apprecciate, if you either bring them one or two cups at a time, or let them wait for a while just to be able to serve them all together. You will have to be able to cover these peaks. Making good coffee takes time, and I noticed, that the maximum rate on the S1 of approx. 60 doubles per hour isn't possible to keep up for practical considerations (especially when preparing different types of coffee drinks). Furthermore, the steam boiler might be large for a single group machine, but you'll notice, that it's not large enough if you have to serve a variety of drinks, like someone might like a hot chocolate, someone a cappuccino, someone a tea. If you use water from the steam boiler it will make you wait a while until you can use steam again.
Johan already pointed out, that you can only have one portafilter ready at a time but as David Schomer pointed out, good espresso is typically achieved with short pulls, and Americans aren't used to such small quantities like 0.8 ounces, so rather make double ristrettos with approx. 1.5 ounces, if someone wants a straight espresso.
Next point, to keep your handle warm all the time, you probably want to flush old coffeegrinds under the S1 hot water spout. This will cost you time to be able to steam again, it also fills up the drip pan quite quickly, so you will have to keep empying that often (if you have your machine sitting for a while you also want to pull blank shots to make sure all components are at the same temperature, and at some point I stopped turning to the sink to empty shotglasses with water); better to also have your machine plumbed out.
For outstanding service you also want to prewarm your cups on top of the machine. As you don't know what will come up, you want to have a variety of cups up there. There might be room for enough espresso cups, but remember, you'll also additionally need cappuccino cups, preferably in two sizes for single and double, the large cups you'll also need for latte. Plus you never know if there's a bigger group coming in. I found that it's not possible to accommodate for that with the S1 cup warmer. I started using the hot water spout to bring cups to temperature, on the downside I lost steam capability for a while after drawing water (the hot water tap at the sink usually isn't hot enough to bring cups to the right temperature fast enough).
Overall, as a coffeegeek I really love the S1, but even if not all of the above applies to your situation, I think you don't want a one group machine like the S1 for a coffee shop (even low volume) if you're serious about it (and we know that's always necessary if you want customers).
Wolfgang
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wgaggl
Re: What to buy?
Johan,Johan Lindroos wrote: La Cimbali "Max" or "Conik"
One intersting thing with the "Max" is that it has a combination burr with both conical and flat burrs. The downside is that it has fairly a fairly high r.p.m. of 1450. I think I will buy the "Max" or "MDXC".
I'm interested in the Max too. The website, as usual, provides very little information. Can you give me some more info on that? Can you referecne any rewievs or can you give me a quick impression yourself?
I'm having the Junior, but looking for a conic/flat burr combo that will fit in my kitchen. The Max has the right size (most of the other conical I looked at are expensive and large monsters compared to the Max).
Any additional info would be of help,
Wolfgang
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Johan Lindroos
Re: What to buy?
Hi wgaggl,
I will receive my "Max" grinder in a few days time. Some problems with the swedish distributor has caused delay. Why doesn
I will receive my "Max" grinder in a few days time. Some problems with the swedish distributor has caused delay. Why doesn
Last edited by Johan Lindroos on Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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wgaggl
Re: What to buy?
[quote="Johan Lindroos"]Hi wgaggl,
I will receive my "Max" grinder in a few days time. Some problems with the swedish distributor has caused delay. Why doesn
I will receive my "Max" grinder in a few days time. Some problems with the swedish distributor has caused delay. Why doesn
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Johan Lindroos
Re: What to buy?
Yes I can share some comments about it. Actually the grinder has come to the sales people but in wrong colour. I ordered the gold version but they ordered the silver (inox) version. I think gold looks best in combination with brown coffee beans and overall looks. Does someone have a suggestion what to to?
Should I:
A) Insist to get the gold version and wait longer for new?
B) Ask for a rebate afterwards and accept it in silver (I have already prepaid)?
C) Do nothing and go and get the silver one immediately and start making espresso?
Should I:
A) Insist to get the gold version and wait longer for new?
B) Ask for a rebate afterwards and accept it in silver (I have already prepaid)?
C) Do nothing and go and get the silver one immediately and start making espresso?
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wgaggl
Re: What to buy?
That's definitely a question of preference. But I would go with the silver one and negotiate a rebate. Also, the metal parts on your espresso machine are most likely silver (?), which matches the grinder then...Johan Lindroos wrote:Yes I can share some comments about it. Actually the grinder has come to the sales people but in wrong colour. I ordered the gold version but they ordered the silver (inox) version. I think gold looks best in combination with brown coffee beans and overall looks. Does someone have a suggestion what to to?
And of course, I would be eager to start making espresso and sharing my impressions on the functionality of my MAX grinder on this forum
Wolfgang
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sjseattle
New forum member
Hi - I don't have a reply to any of the above thread but since the topic concerns what to buy I thought I would start here. First off, I am waiting for a new S1 which I ordered from Chris Coffee a few days ago. I check the UPS shipping info all the time hoping that it will arrive a day sooner than scheduled.
I want to thank all of you on this forum for providing such in depth knowledge about the S1. Also, the buyers guide was invaluable in helping to decide on a new machine. I have had a Pasquini Livietta for the past 23 years and lately have found that parts are no longer available. So, I started shopping (and learning) and came to the logical end of the search by choosing the S1 for it's double boiler, large capacity, dimensions (15.25" high), rotary pump and precise controls. This will add a whole new dimension to brewing espresso and frothing micro-foam for me. I was leary of punching a hole in my counter top for a water line but now the idea doesn't seem so bad. In fact, I'm looking forward to it because of the convenience of automatically keeping the boilers filled.
I will let you know how the installation works out and whether or not I can make a passable shot of espresso.
I want to thank all of you on this forum for providing such in depth knowledge about the S1. Also, the buyers guide was invaluable in helping to decide on a new machine. I have had a Pasquini Livietta for the past 23 years and lately have found that parts are no longer available. So, I started shopping (and learning) and came to the logical end of the search by choosing the S1 for it's double boiler, large capacity, dimensions (15.25" high), rotary pump and precise controls. This will add a whole new dimension to brewing espresso and frothing micro-foam for me. I was leary of punching a hole in my counter top for a water line but now the idea doesn't seem so bad. In fact, I'm looking forward to it because of the convenience of automatically keeping the boilers filled.
I will let you know how the installation works out and whether or not I can make a passable shot of espresso.
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PurpleCow
What I bought....
Thanks Wolfgang for your comments about my original post. Your reply was a little late however. I have purchased an S1 and a Mazzer grinder. It took me about a week to get some wiring and plumbing in, but we're up and running with it now.
I must say we really like the S1. It took a little playing with to used to it but we've got the hang of it now. The S1 is far superior to the non-plumbed pod machine that we had. We love the steam capabilities and the fact that it is plumbed. It makes great shots of espresso too. Our only issue is the drip tray, but this is a small issue. Our machine is right next to a sink so it's not a big deal to empty the tray or a blank shot right into the sink. Anyway, I really enjoy this site. Thanks to everyone for all the posts, there is a lot of good information here.
I must say we really like the S1. It took a little playing with to used to it but we've got the hang of it now. The S1 is far superior to the non-plumbed pod machine that we had. We love the steam capabilities and the fact that it is plumbed. It makes great shots of espresso too. Our only issue is the drip tray, but this is a small issue. Our machine is right next to a sink so it's not a big deal to empty the tray or a blank shot right into the sink. Anyway, I really enjoy this site. Thanks to everyone for all the posts, there is a lot of good information here.
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wgaggl
Re: What I bought....
Yes, I'm thinking about getting the drip tray plumbed out. With one of these connectors pretty similar to the garden hose things, which can be unplugged and replugged in a snap, so I can still get the tray out for cleaning.PurpleCow wrote: Our only issue is the drip tray, but this is a small issue. Our machine is right next to a sink so it's not a big deal to empty the tray or a blank shot right into the sink.
Wolfgang
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Johan Lindroos
Re: What to buy?
I accepted the silver version and managed to get a refund of 1250 SEK (about 100 dollars). In that way I was satisfied and the supplier was also satisfied.wgaggl wrote:That's definitely a question of preference. But I would go with the silver one and negotiate a rebate. Also, the metal parts on your espresso machine are most likely silver (?), which matches the grinder then...Johan Lindroos wrote:Yes I can share some comments about it. Actually the grinder has come to the sales people but in wrong colour. I ordered the gold version but they ordered the silver (inox) version. I think gold looks best in combination with brown coffee beans and overall looks. Does someone have a suggestion what to to?
And of course, I would be eager to start making espresso and sharing my impressions on the functionality of my MAX grinder on this forum
Wolfgang
First impressions are:
It is a nice grinder. It can grind to very small difference in grind size. Easy to adjust with "micrometer" screw. Quite a lot of plastic, but seems to be durable. I bought it for the combination conic/flat burr only. Quite fast grinding (faster than Brasilia VIP 64). Maybe I write a more detalied review later when I have used it more.
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wgaggl
Re: What to buy?
[quote="Johan LindroosFirst impressions are:
It is a nice grinder. It can grind to very small difference in grind size. Easy to adjust with "micrometer" screw. Quite a lot of plastic, but seems to be durable. I bought it for the combination conic/flat burr only. Quite fast grinding (faster than Brasilia VIP 64). Maybe I write a more detalied review later when I have used it more.[/quote]
Thanks for the update.
I've a question about the "micrometer" screw:
On the Cimbali Junior the dial has quite a bit of slackness, so it's quite hard to make really fine adjustments (you can feel it when turning it left and right a little bit, you can also see the readout not following immediately for very small changes). How's your impression about that on the Max?
It is a nice grinder. It can grind to very small difference in grind size. Easy to adjust with "micrometer" screw. Quite a lot of plastic, but seems to be durable. I bought it for the combination conic/flat burr only. Quite fast grinding (faster than Brasilia VIP 64). Maybe I write a more detalied review later when I have used it more.[/quote]
Thanks for the update.
I've a question about the "micrometer" screw:
On the Cimbali Junior the dial has quite a bit of slackness, so it's quite hard to make really fine adjustments (you can feel it when turning it left and right a little bit, you can also see the readout not following immediately for very small changes). How's your impression about that on the Max?
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Johan Lindroos
Re: What to buy?
wgaggl wrote: ...
Thanks for the update.
I've a question about the "micrometer" screw:
On the Cimbali Junior the dial has quite a bit of slackness, so it's quite hard to make really fine adjustments (you can feel it when turning it left and right a little bit, you can also see the readout not following immediately for very small changes). How's your impression about that on the Max?
I
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Johan Lindroos
Re: What to buy?
Hello Wolfgang, I have now finally checked the micrometer screw on the right side. It has a slack of only 1/6th of a turn which I consider abolutely normal. It also has a "click" for ech half turn acieved by a spring loaded ball which falls into two tracks in the micrometer shaft. Maybe not understandable? The grinding is actually very fine-tunable, and seems to be able to grind the beans to a large area/volume of grind, I think. It has quite a lot of plastic, but anyway seems durable. The heght is not so high, so it fits under myc kitchen cupboards nicely.