Steady red lights #'s 20 & 21

JoeCoffee · Post by **JoeCoffee** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:25 pm

Hi, I'm looking for some layman's language advice as I'm not going to open up my machine and try to fix it myself. Just want to know what's going on and what service and repairs would entail. I looked at the manual but didn't find that helpful

I have a La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II. A few weeks ago, it blew a fuse, which I replaced and things were working fine.

Now it appears there is a possible boiler-related issue. This morning I turned it on, and all seemed normal, until after a few minutes red lights numbers 20 & 21 came on steady. There is no functionality, and I really need this to work for the holidays.

Can you tell me what is going on? How do a find a repair facility in the Phoenix-Scottsdale area?

Thanks in advance.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:47 pm

Lights 20 and 21 on steady means that the coffee boiler temperature probe has failed. This is pretty easy to fix yourself once you have the part in hand. However, the best case option is that the wire just popped off which is unlikely but worth checking since this would be a "free" fix. In either case it requires removing the side and rear covers so you can see the back side of the coffee boiler.

You can buy the part here for $60.
LS Coffee Boiler Temperature Probe

According to Google, the places below service espresso machines in your area.

Good luck with any of these options having it fixed before Christmas, however,

JoeCoffee · Post by **JoeCoffee** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:08 am

Thank you so much for this. Happy holidays!

JoeCoffee · Post by **JoeCoffee** » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:36 pm

Just a follow up. Temperature probe was replaced but didn't do any good. Lights 20 & 21 still turn steady red after five minutes. I've also been frustrated by the fact that La Spaziale is unreachable in the US. The telephone number on the website is disconnected and refers callers to another mysterious number where you can leave a message, but no one calls back.

TCStuckey3rd · Post by **TCStuckey3rd** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:35 pm

You ever find out your issue? I’m having a similar problem.

KaffeeKult · Post by **KaffeeKult** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:39 am

TCStuckey3rd wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:35 pm You ever find out your issue? I’m having a similar problem.

JoeCoffee wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:36 pm Just a follow up. Temperature probe was replaced but didn't do any good. Lights 20 & 21 still turn steady red after five minutes. I've also been frustrated by the fact that La Spaziale is unreachable in the US. The telephone number on the website is disconnected and refers callers to another mysterious number where you can leave a message, but no one calls back.

I currently have the same problem. How did it end for you? Do you have any advice?

PS: Can you tell me which kind of temp sensor is needed?
NTC? how much kOhm?

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:13 pm

The manual states that lamps 20 & 21 coming on after 5 minutes means that the temperature probe has failed. However, it really means that the boiler temperature did not exceed 60C after 5 minutes of On time. So in addition to a bad temperature probe the other items that can cause this are:

1) Bad Triac board that doesn't turn on to supply power to the heater elements
2) Bad Heater element that is getting power but the electric coil has opened up so that it doesn't get hot.

You can test for #1 by using an AC voltmeter in the first 5 minutes to check for AC power mains voltage across the heater element leads. If no voltage you need a new triac board for $40. As a temporary fix you can swap the leads on the two triac boards. The other triac board provides the exact same function for the steam boiler. If this is the problem you won't have steam or hot water until you replace the board ~$40USD, but you will have coffee.

You can test for #2 by unplugging the machine and disconnecting the power leads from the boiler's heater element leads. Then use an ohmmeter to test the resistance across the heater element leads. It should read around 6-8ohms. If it is shorted or much higher you'll need to replace the coffee boiler heater element. If this is the problem you'll need a new 800W heater element $88 and a new boiler gasket $5.

KaffeeKult · Post by **KaffeeKult** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:33 pm

Hello chas,
the boiler gets warm, but the temperature sensor has invalid values.
If the boiler gets arround 60C the display shows 93C already. So it is an issue with the sensor itself, since SSR (don't have triac) and heater work great.

Can you tell me which kind of sensor is used?
Or are you able to measure the resistance at rrom temperature and arround 90C? Then I can find a propper one depending on resistance chart.
That would be great!

PS: I can just use the lower spot for the sensor, since my boiler doesn't have a flange at the upper side for such srewing sensor.
dimension must be 4mm diameter and 30mm length.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:02 pm

Check the attached chart

KaffeeKult · Post by **KaffeeKult** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:07 pm

my current sensor is broken and don't show valid values.
Are you sure, that the S1 II uses a Pt1000?

KaffeeKult · Post by **KaffeeKult** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:34 pm

The Sensor of my steam boiler shows at 18C something arround 180kOhm.
Thought this is a PT1000 as well?!

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:32 pm

You very well may not have a PT1000 in your machine. LaSpaziale has made several changes in their sensors over the years. The original S1 used a sensor with long leads that went down inside a tube. At that time both boilers used the same type.

I think my early V2 was also this way but later they switched to using a short stubby sensor on the steam boiler and the one in the tube only on the coffee boiler. On the Dream they use a short stubby sensor on both boilers. Between the S1 and the V2 they changed to a new sensor with tighter tolerances. I know one of my machines used a PT-1000 but I don't remember which one. The last time I mentioned the PT-1000 someone told me that the sensor in their machine was definitely NOT a PT-1000. Hopefully, your sensor has a part number etched on it somewhere. That's really the only way to be sure.

KaffeeKult · Post by **KaffeeKult** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:49 am

My S1 II has that short Stubby sensor at the steam boiler. The coffee boiler has the sensor in the tube.
It looks like this:

4 mm * 30 mm

But I don't know which type I need, since I can not measure the broken sensor.
There is no part number. Just the blank metal sleve.

The steam boiler don't use PT1000. But I don't know which one it uses.

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:06 am

How about this place?

https://gastrotiger.de/shop/elektrokomp ... a_spaziale

KaffeeKult · Post by **KaffeeKult** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:34 am

But which one of those?
There are 3 diffrent ones:
https://gastrotiger.de/shop/elektrokomp ... a_spaziale

- NTC
- NTC 200kOhm
- PTC (This one has the wrong dimensions)

I will ask at the shop, which one is the right one.
Thank you for the link!

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:52 am

I assume it's one of these two depending on what type of connector your current one has.

: TempSensor.jpg (29.84 KiB) Viewed 12205 times

Hopefully, yours is like the first one since it is 1/3 the price and the other one has a 4-5 week lead time.

mmg · Post by **mmg** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:29 pm

I may or may not have the same setup as you, meaning I have a stubby one for steam and a probe for brewing.
Let me see if I can measure a resistance and let you know.

The cheaper one linked as a cable rated for 100C, sure the boiler shouldn't get there, but it can...

KaffeeKult · Post by **KaffeeKult** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:57 am

I will order the cheap one, because here the plugs are compatible.
I am curious about the resistance of this sensor. Is ist 200kOhm as well? I will tell you asap

THX for your kind support so far!

KaffeeKult · Post by **KaffeeKult** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:40 pm

Hello,
so I ordered the cheaper sensor. It work's great so far. It has simular values for the resistant as the steam boiler, which are arround 200kOhm at room temperature.
I noticed one difference. After 2 double shots a takes a while until the displayed temperature lowers a couple degrees and the heater turns on. That was a bit faster in the past, what I would prefere.
I think it has something to do with the exact position of the sensor in the tube. It will try out diffrent depths for that. We will see.....

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:41 am

Be sure the sensor is pushed all the way to the bottom of the tube.

KaffeeKult · Post by **KaffeeKult** » Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:30 pm

Really?
All the way in to the end stop?

https://clivecoffee.zendesk.com/hc/arti ... 8-02-1.jpg
https://clivecoffee.zendesk.com/hc/arti ... 5339-1.jpg
https://clivecoffee.zendesk.com/hc/arti ... alve_1.JPG
https://clivecoffee.zendesk.com/hc/arti ... 2146-1.jpg

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:49 pm

Yes, all the way. You want the sensor all the way to the end of the tube to maximize metal-to-metal contact. Also, you can see in one of those Clive pix that there is a small plug of silcone rubber to keep the sensor in place.

KaffeeKult · Post by **KaffeeKult** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:18 am

I did that now. The response time is much faster.
That's much better that way! I will secure it as shown. Thanks for support and that hint!

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Steady red lights #'s 20 & 21

Steady red lights #'s 20 & 21

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