Fuse problem?

[brandon]

Hi,

I posted earlier about an issue with the pump that I thankfully fixed. But now I have an electrical issue - the machine keeps blowing fuses in my kitchen outlets! (This is a different apartment than the one in which I previously lived.) No idea where to start here; I've tried two different outlets and both got blown within a few minutes of the machine heating up....my apartment building is relatively new (2006-07 build) and the outlet that has the TV/stereo/cable/PS3 plugged in via a single powerbar is totally fine...

I'll note that when I had the machine opened up, the switches were in the "Off" and "15" positions...the breaker for both outlets is a 20A breaker, but only one of them is a 20A receptacle. The 15A receptacle seems totally dead now. Detailedhelp is appreciated as I don't know anything about circuitry/electrical wiring and have never had to give it a second thought with any appliance...

[peter]

Most likely all the outlets in your kitchen are on one circuit, so changing to a different one won't tell you much.

Is your machine normal in the way it functions, or is it such that it won't even get warmed up before a fuse blows? You are actually meaning it trips the breaker, yes?

[brandon]

It turns on and starts to warm up fine and then shuts off randomly while heating up -- could be one minute, could be 5. It seems like it is tripping the breaker because my Vario also shuts off; however, when I checked the breaker box none of the switches had been flipped. For what it's worth, the breaker box lists two Kitchen GFIs in addition to the dishwasher, oven, microwave and stovetop (all listed as separate switches). Also, as I mentioned, one of the outlets (I thought it was a 15A receptacle but is actually a 20A, just with no test/reset button) is now completely dead -- nothing works in either socket.

What can I do?

[chas]

In mentioning GFI, you hit on the question I was going to ask as to whether it was actually the breaker or the GFI that is tripping. If it is the breaker, you would think that the fuse in the machine itself would eventually blow, too. If it is the GFI, then either your steam boiler or your group boiler heating element is bad,

By bad, I mean that some water has seeped into the sealed copper tube that houses the electric coil. This causes the type of leakage current that will trigger a GFI but usually not trip the actual breaker. In order to tell which one is bad, turn on the machine and press the Boiler button to turn off the steam boiler. If the machine runs just fine like that then you need a new steam boiler element. If the GFI still blows then it's the group boiler element.

If you need to order either of these be sure to also order the gaskets for the boiler lids and get some citric acid, too, so that you can descale the boiler while it is open.

[brandon]

In mentioning GFI, you hit on the question I was going to ask as to whether it was actually the breaker or the GFI that is tripping. If it is the breaker, you would think that the fuse in the machine itself would eventually blow, too. If it is the GFI, then either your steam boiler or your group boiler heating element is bad,

By bad, I mean that some water has seeped into the sealed copper tube that houses the electric coil. This causes the type of leakage current that will trigger a GFI but usually not trip the actual breaker. In order to tell which one is bad, turn on the machine and press the Boiler button to turn off the steam boiler. If the machine runs just fine like that then you need a new steam boiler element. If the GFI still blows then it's the group boiler element.

If you need to order either of these be sure to also order the gaskets for the boiler lids and get some citric acid, too, so that you can descale the boiler while it is open.

It is possible I some wires wet while trying to fix the flow problem, though I wiped everything down thoroughly...frustrating.

The outlet I was plugged into originally was not a GFI outlet (didn't have the Test/Reset buttons, just holes) and that one doesn't work at all now. Then I tried in one of the GFI outlets and heard a loud "click" when the machine turned off. I assume this is the GFI being tripped.

Three questions, then:

1) What have I done to the non-GFI outlet that is now dead?
2) Is there a simpler solution than changing the element? I have no idea how to do that myself -- disconnecting a silicone tube is one thing, but I don't want to play with electrical wiring. (i.e. is it possible it will "dry out" on its own and I can safely test in the GFI outlet?)
3) Is there anything else I can look at to diagnose the problem further?

[MDL]

It is only necessary to put a single GFI onto each circuit. All outlets that are past that GFI on the circuit are protected. Presumably the outlet that does not work is "past" one of the GFIs and not working because the GFI has tripped.

[brandon]

In mentioning GFI, you hit on the question I was going to ask as to whether it was actually the breaker or the GFI that is tripping. If it is the breaker, you would think that the fuse in the machine itself would eventually blow, too. If it is the GFI, then either your steam boiler or your group boiler heating element is bad,

By bad, I mean that some water has seeped into the sealed copper tube that houses the electric coil. This causes the type of leakage current that will trigger a GFI but usually not trip the actual breaker. In order to tell which one is bad, turn on the machine and press the Boiler button to turn off the steam boiler. If the machine runs just fine like that then you need a new steam boiler element. If the GFI still blows then it's the group boiler element.

If you need to order either of these be sure to also order the gaskets for the boiler lids and get some citric acid, too, so that you can descale the boiler while it is open.

Okay, machine does not trip GFI with boiler turned off so the problem is related to steam boiler. At least I've narrowed it down but what could've damaged the heating element in the time it spent in storage??? I'm just hoping for a simpler solution than replacing an element which I have no idea how to do...

[chas]

Since you have a mini I have some good news and I have some bad news. While the steam boilers on an S1 "Maxi" are screwed on so that you can remove the top in order to change the heater element, no so with the Mini. The Mini's steam boiler is completely sealed. When the heater element goes or causes the problem you're seeing, the only option is to drop in a whole new boiler.

So the good news is that you don't have to worry about having the skills to swap out a heater element, since the skills needed to swap out the entire boiler are very low. HOWEVER, it costs a fair amount more to buy an entire boiler for the mini than it would to just buy a new heater element and top lid gasket for a maxi.

[brandon]

Yes, I guess I should look on the bright side! Going to give CC a call and have them walk me through everything since I think they had mentioned it could potentially be a simpler fix first. In the meanwhile, it shouldn't cause any problems to operate the machine with the boiler off?

[richardcoffee]

I operate with the steam boiler off most of the time.

[brandon]

I operate with the steam boiler off most of the time.

I just wanted to make sure that the heat and any other effects from running the group boiler only wouldn't cause additional issues with the machine given there is clearly a problem. In normal operation I've ran it many times without the steam boiler.

[brandon]

Tried again today. Boiler got to temp with no electrical failures. Don't know what fixed it but seems A-OK!

[chas]

Normal

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[leonecam]

Tried again today. Boiler got to temp with no electrical failures. Don't know what fixed it but seems A-OK!

Brandon, did this work itself out eventually? I'm having the same issue....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[brandon]

Tried again today. Boiler got to temp with no electrical failures. Don't know what fixed it but seems A-OK!

Brandon, did this work itself out eventually? I'm having the same issue....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yes, this worked itself out eventually. Guessing maybe a bit of water that eventually dried out?

[vigoss]

hey,
I have about the same problem with my La Spaziale S1 Rossini Dosata. I bought it a month ago and I had to take it apart in order to clean and replace what was too old. It was made in 2008 and had very poor maintenance. It was actually filthy on the inside and I had to thoroughly descale it. After I put it back I tried to start it and when I plugged it in, the GFCI tripped. I've had this issue several times and didn't realize what the cause was. I tried to plug it in with the heating element disconnected and this way the GFCI didn't trip and everything else worked fine. I thought it was the heating element, but I measured it with a multi-meter and it is not interrupted, nor does it seem to make ground with the rest of the machine. More than that, I have connected the heating element directly to power and it heated up without tripping the GFCI or the circuit breaker.
After reading this thread I'm starting to think that maybe when I descaled the heating element some water may have entered the heating element and now is giving me trouble. At a visual inspection, the heating element seemed fine before I have put it back in the boiler.
I have to mention that all the wires were put back just the same as they were before I cleaned the machine when it didn't have this problem.
What should I do before spending money on a new heating element?
Thank you!