Timings after pre-infusion

nod1 · Post by **nod1** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Hi I have fitted the mechanical progressive pre-infusion mod on my vivaldi II. I really just wanted to know what timings people recommend? I have read around the subject and this seems to be some disagreement about The amount of time you should count for pre-infusion. It seems to be about six seconds before any Espresso comes the group therefore do I just add six seconds to my usual 26 to 28 seconds timing for extraction? i.e. Pretty much the idea of starting the timer when I see espresso. It seems the other perspective is that pre-infusion only counts for about half of extraction time therefore I should inly add about three seconds? I would really appreciate the expert thoughts of you all. Thanks

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richardcoffee · Post by **richardcoffee** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:18 pm

I can't say my opinion is that of an expert. I can only tell you what my experience is. I find that with a proper grind on my Compak K10 PB, a good shot on my mini with preinfusion is around 40 seconds total. Thats with a typical 14.5 gram load in a double basket.

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:08 am

This is one of those "religious" type of issues with no real right answer since the 25 sec rule is, by itself, pretty arbitrary.

I will say that on my GS/3, LaMarzocco apparently believes that you add the preinfusion time to the total time. With preinfusion disabled, no matter what you program the automatic water volume to be, if it is not completed in 50s, the GS/3 stops the shot. However, if you enable and program for 5s of preinfusion, the machine waits 55s to stop the shot.

nod1 · Post by **nod1** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:16 am

Thanks both - this is very interesting. It has certainly complicated things for me. 40 seconds it much longer than I am going for - what weight of espresso are you getting in that time? I am also dosing 18gr... I was thinking of going for a compromise of adding 3 seconds to my shot....any further thoughts? Thanks

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richardcoffee · Post by **richardcoffee** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:34 pm

For me, that's 14.5 grams in and 30 grams out in 40 seconds. At some point in my experience with my Mini someone suggested that the Vivaldis can do with a longer shot since the basket is deeper. I think I've been influenced by that idea. In any case, I'm happy with my shots.

nod1 · Post by **nod1** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:49 pm

Hi richardcoffee... Those timings seems a little long to me and the dose a little low but if it is working for you then no problems. I'll try your recipe at the weekend.

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richardcoffee · Post by **richardcoffee** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:25 pm

nod1 wrote:Hi richardcoffee... Those timings seems a little long to me and the dose a little low but if it is working for you then no problems. I'll try your recipe at the weekend.

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I know. They pale compared to some of the doses you read about. 18, 19, 22 gram doses. But, sometime in the first year with my Mini, I was having trouble with the triple basket. Some veteran suggested to go back to the double and stick to 14 grams - weighed. I found it made a big improvement. And I grind pretty tight. But, I like it.

jfrescki · Post by **jfrescki** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:46 am

I think most long time Vivaldi users stay <16g in the double. The triple can work, but makes it harder. My standard dose is 15.5g in the double, and I only change if the coffee really requires it. I remember one person on HB (I think) who said he routinely used 18g in the double, but for the life of me I can't figure that out unless he only used very lightly roasted coffee.

Very curious what nod1 thinks of the preinfusion since mine just failed and I'm happier with the tastes of my shots now without it.

nod1 · Post by **nod1** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:20 am

This is very interesting.. I dose 18 grams in a double and never seem to have any problems. I do drink very lightly toasted beans though and never drink anything roasted beyond medium. What is the reason people say go below 16gr? I also never got on with a triple basket. As for the preinfusion... It has definitely stirred things up for me.. I thought I had things nailed and it has made it harder. I have now dropped my extraction time to 30 seconds ie only adding an additional 3 seconds for preinfusion and this seems to have improved things. I am grinding tighter but have not yet seems anything amazing in the cup. I think the science and the logic of preinfusion seem so sensible so am persevering but I'm not finding it easy. I still think at the moment I am the one at fault but I am very interested to hear more of jfreski's experiences. How did u adjust your brew time after it was removed? and how overall did things change? Cheers

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nod1 · Post by **nod1** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:27 am

Jfreski.. I see now you have posted a lot of detail of detail on the other thread... Ideal... The only thing you haven't covered is the timings of your shots pre and post preinfusion. How did you adjust the extraction time? Did you just stick to identical timings? Thanks

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jfrescki · Post by **jfrescki** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:00 pm

I didn't change my total shot time after removing preinfusion. A stereotypical shot is 15.5g dose, 22g out in about 29s. I tend to err on the side of longer timed shots as I just prefer that taste profile.

Interestingly, my father was over after the pre-infusion failed. I was pulling Compass' Delirium (which he'd never had so take this with a grain of salt) and he insisted it was the best espresso I ever made him. He had two doubles.

nod1 · Post by **nod1** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:10 pm

Thanks a lot... V useful to know

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