Steam Boiler not stopping heating

[coffeejn]

Hi,

I have had the LaSpaciale S1 for more than 5 years. Lately, the boiler does not stop at the 1/2 mark when heating up and keeps going . Last Saturday the safety feature kicked in and let the steam out but at least it had stopped heating at the point. My guess is it goes pass the 1/2 mark by quite a bit. Any idea of what the issue is? Maybe the temperature probe not functioning? The machine has been sitting by for about 2 years without much use. Should I look at descaling the machine (not something I suspect due to the water source).

Any help would be appreciated before I start taking it apart.

Thank you.

[Endo]

Which boiler? What do you mean by "1/2 mark"?

[coffeejn]

The 2.5L boiler for steam. The group head is fine. The steam boiler gauge is going pass the green zone into the red zone and keeps going to the point I felt that the boiler would have blown up if not for the safety features.. Usually it would stop where the green meets the red.

[coffeejn]

Small update. Emptied the 2.5L boiler (first time since I bought it in September 2005.....I really should have been doing this at least every 6 months now that I think about it). Small amount of white stuff came out, not much. Checked the opening and it was partially blocked. So I cleared it, left it open and turned on the machine to have some water clear what it could. Did not result the issue, but could be related to the cause.

I am thinking it might be the Sensor Thermal Regulation. Either way I am considering changing the sensor and the heating element (or at least order one at the same time since I live in Canada and supplier is in US). At the same time I would descale/clean the boiler. Apart from a gasket for the boiler, anything else that I should consider ordering at the same time.... the shipping is killer.

One thing that bugs me is that the machine is not flashing any lights or other lights are not lit to tell me there is something that failed.... So the electronics is not detecting the issue.

Any feed back would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Endo]

Do a thorough descaling and cleaning of your brew boiler. Use citric acid powder and also meachnically descale everything you can.

Next, replace the temp sensor. The pressure is controlled by limiting the temperature, so that's what is broken (a $50 part).

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... tempsensor

I wouldn't bother changing the heater. If it works, it works. Nothing to be gained here.

You can get the temp sensor from Espressoplanet in Mississauga or CaffeTech in Edmonton if your are from Canada like me.

http://www.espressoplanet.com/

Espressoplanet is a great, newly renovated store that stocks Vivaldi parts. Better store than Chris Coffee in my opinion. If you don't want to drive, they can ship to you in 1 day.

[coffeejn]

Good to know. That is what I planned. I did not order the element, but did order the temp senor from Chris Coffee (placed the order already... sadly since I could get the part faster in Canada) and a gasket for the boiler (I am just going to assume the worst case that it will need to be replaced since they are $10).

Do you have any direction on how to mechanically descale (wire brush? or just scrubbing using nylon pads since they would leave less marks) the boiler? I understand the use of citric acid powder (not sure where to get it, might check Morola trading since they are local) but where can I obtain the citric acid powder. Is it sold in hardware stores?

Thanks

[BeRad]

As Endo points out descale before replacing any parts (oh, sorry just re-read your post and see that you already odered some). If you do a search of the forum you will see I was complaining about the same symptoms a few months back. I finally ended up descaling the boiler w/ some citric acid and all has been good since (I didn't bother to take out the heating element or probe to descale separately but based on the age of your machine this may be worthwhile). I'm a bit surprised that this appears to be the fix as I thought I was doing a good job managing my water quality... but hey, whatever works at least it was cheap and easy.

For citric acid, here in Germany I had to go to an apotheke (pharmacy) to find it so that may be worth a look. The pharmacy had a hard time understanding what I was asking for even though the translation is pretty much the same, in desperation I happened to mention 'espresso machine' and the woman's eyes lit up and she brought out a big bottle of citric acid powder. Otherwise, I've seen it suggested elsewhere that indian markets tend to stock it.

[Endo]

Any coffee store will sell desscaler. You can order a package or two of Urnex Descal from Espressoplanet. I suspect it is mostly citric acid powder.

http://www.espressoplanet.com/coffee-an ... ezcal.html

For scrubbing I usually wear rubber gloves and use a Scotch-bright heavy duty synthetic scrubbing pad. The ones with a sponge on one side and the scrubbing pad on the other. You can find them in every Canadian grocery store. They scratch less than steel wool (though sometimes steel wool and a wirebrush are necessary if it is real bad). You can see one of these Scotch-brite pads in my descaling blog:

http://cremina-endo.blogspot.ca/2011/08 ... aling.html

[richardcoffee]

I found some citric acid recently in a wal-mart type store. They had it in the canning section along with the jars, lids, pectin, etc.

[coffeejn]

I found some citric acid at wine makers (Defalco in Ottawa has some). Just wandering if this is the same stuff or not.

http://store.defalcowines.com/cart.php? ... itric+acid

Also found some interesting instructions..

http://www.frcndigital.com/coffee/HowToDescale.html

I think I am good to go.

Thank you all.

[Endo]

Wine stores are a good source for the powder. Mix 1 tablespoon with 1 litre of water. Be very careful not to get in on anything chrome (like the group head our portfilter). It will strip the chrome off and then you're screwed.

[coffeejn]

Hi all,

Well I got the part last night. I installed it today and it was not as easy as the instructions mostly because they changed the part!!! The old one was 2 piece which was a dip stick (long pipe) with a sensor inserted inside. Had I only received the sensor, I would have been done really quickly!!! The new one is all one piece, (see picture: http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... tempsensor ). So I had to unscrew the dip stick with an hexagon key then screw in the new piece. Works, only difference is the pressure does not go pass ~1.15 (used to reach ~1.40; where the green meets the red) on the pressure meter. I actually consider that an improvements since I never liked it that close to the red. Make sure to use teflon tape or pipe dope (not sure on the dope been safe in contact with pressurized water; although from inspection, that is what they Italians used while assembling) otherwise it will leak pressure. I had to reinstall it because I did not use enough tape.

I guess this sensor is better in the sense that it is all one piece and is in direct contact with steam/water instead of been in an "oven" which could give slightly different results every time. It is more labor intensive to fix however. Just make sure the seal is good and your ok (use teflon tape). It is a tight fit to work on and you will have to remove the back to have leverage. Other then the 1/8 - 1/4 turn at a time, it was a relatively easy installation once you remove the old piece (which was hard due to the build up of calcium; a trick is to work it back and forth while moving forward a bit more every time). Just make sure to flush the tank at least once after installation in case you loosen some more residue inside.

Thanks for the help.... interesting fix and relatively cheap too! See below for a picture of the old part.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/topviewc.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/2parts.jpg/

[chas]

They switched to the new sensor when the V2 came out. The old one in the well had a +-1C accuracy and the new one is +- 1/2C.

[coffeejn]

So it IS an improvement... not that it matters much once it is installed. I still think the way the new sensor works is a big improvement since it is in direct contact instead of been in a chamber that is in contact with the water/steam.

It works, that is all I care in the long term. Finally can enjoy a cappuccino without the worry that the machine will blow up or break due to too much steam build up if I walk away.

Thanks for the info.