Milk Steaming

[bobroseman]

Has anyone else found that the quality of microfoam is improved by sticking a toothpick into one of S1s three steam wand tip holes? I am much more satisfied with the microfoam this way.

If anyone has purchased a two hole steam tip for the S1, might I have the particulars?

Bob

[barjohn]

I haven't tried it but I have been very happy with the microfoam I have been getting with the stock tip.

[sbarry]

I love the steaming performance of my S1 but initially had a hard time not making sea foam. The S1 so easily stretches milk that I don't have to try like I did on my previous machine. But if I am not alert (like most mornings) I can easily create sooo much foam that no amount of texturing will remedy it. If a two-hole tip would slow the process down I would definitely be interested in it - at least EITM when its just me and my S1.

[barjohn]

I get such good microfoam with the S-1 that I have had no real need. The only time it might be needed is when I am making a small quantity of foam for one. I finally decided I would just toss the extra because is a small pitcher it froths too much and makes sea foam whereas in the larger pitcher I get a perfect microfoam.

[hlsheppard]

I too am REALLY struggling trying to re-learn microfoam on the S1. I had it down to a science with my slow-steaming Isomac Tea...

I don't really know what I'm doing wrong yet, but I'm just getting bubbles up the wazzoo! Not huge soapy ones but a ton of smaller ones.

I can get the milk spinning easy enough, but the volume KEEPS GROWING and as soon as I stop the spinning - a ton of bubbles surface



BTW I'm using a 20oz pitcher (the same one I've always used) along with the same milk I've always used (Costco / Kirkland whole (4%) milk).

[BobG]

I recall that there is another thread from a discussion awhile ago on milk frothing on the S1.

One important thing I have noticed is to make sure your machine has come up to steam pressure of 1.1 or higher. At least on mine, I give it a blast about 40 seconds before I pull the shot so that I make sure it is up to pressure and there is no extra water in the steam wand.

Once you have sufficient practice, you should be able to steam whole milk in your sleep, as whole milk is the easiest. I generally use 1% and have no trouble producing very nice latte art. Various people on this board use different techniques. I start out at the center then shift the pitcher once the milk is warm, move the pitcher to the side to spin the milk. Make sure to keep the wand fully submerged and introduce no air on the spin or you will end up with lots of bubbles. I also use a 20 oz pitcher and find that best for even steaming small quantities of milk.

Bob G.

[chas]

Have any of you "old timers" with first generation S1's ever gone back and revisited the original 4 hole steam tip? I recently did on a whim and was surprised by the excellent microfoam.

Chris replaced our original 4 hole tips with the current 3 hole tips free of charge after receiving mutliple complaints that the 4 hole tips were only capable of creating "macrofoam". I found that to be true after moving directly from the Tea's 2 hole tip to to the 4 hole S1 tip. Maybe I just needed the 3 hole tip for a while to act like "training wheels". The four hole tip seems to work great for me now.

Just wondering if any of you have tried that old tip again. I am interested to see if you agree or disagree with my recent assessment.

[ishcoco]

What kind of milk are you using? I have found that whole milk works wonderfully (even when I am half asleep). Skim, on the other hand, is really tough to get nice microfoam - it tends to make lots of big foam. The answer may lie somewhere in between the steam tip, and the fat content of the milk?

Ben

[Barry]

I use only skim. I immediately start a whirl pool by surfing the tip and holding the container at a slight angle. The tip is near the edge of the container. Once the whirl pool is going and the temp has risen to about 100F, I submerge the tip JUST BELOW the surface, rather than the bottom making certain to keep the whirl pool going. I found submerging to deep did not allow the foam to blend well and I would end up with something like runny whip cream on the surface.

[sbarry]

I switched from skim to 2% awhile back and have had great results. Starting in the center I barely stretch the milk to about 60 degrees and then shift the pitcher and bury the wand towards the side to spin the milk until it reaches about 140 degrees then shut it off. (The temp climbs past 160 while I flush the wand). Nice shiny microfoam suitable for latte art which I've gotten okay at, or gran machiatto (I think that's what its called) for the misses. I haven't calibrated the thermometer in awhile so you'll need to experiment. Good luck.

[wgaggl]

Has anyone else found that the quality of microfoam is improved by sticking a toothpick into one of S1s three steam wand tip holes? I am much more satisfied with the microfoam this way.

If anyone has purchased a two hole steam tip for the S1, might I have the particulars?

Bob

I found this adapter http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... ms/adaptor at ChrisCoffee, which also works for the S1. This enables you to use a wider range of steam tips, as there are plenty available for a 10mm thread; like this two-hole one: http://espressoparts.com/product/F_134_2.

I think about trying it, to have more control with small milk quantities.

Wolfgang[/url]

[BillK]

Wolfgang, good find! I just ordered one of each. (Shipping is simply brutal on small parts like this.)

I have no real problem with the standard, three-hole tip. My one minor quibble is that, with either skim or 2% "normal" milk, the microfoam texture doesn't seem to be quite as fine as I was able to achieve on my previous machine. I mostly use 2% lactose-free milk or whole regular milk, so I hadn't thought much about this recently (for some reason, lactose-free 2% milk gives me texture that is noticably finer/creamier than comparable regular milk.) However, a two-hole tip should be an improvement and will, as you indicate, make life easier with a 12 oz. pitcher. (Plus, I don't know about you, but I have never felt a strong need to steam a 20 oz milk pitcher at half-throttle in less time than it takes a Porche to go from 0-60 at full-throttle.) We'll see how the new tip works out.

[HooHaw]

When you folks say '2% milk' is that like '98% fat-free milk'?

[wgaggl]

When you folks say '2% milk' is that like '98% fat-free milk'?

Strange way to put it...
Clarification: regular whole-milk contains about 4% milk-fat in most places. The remaining 96% are mostly water, of course. Still wouldn't call it "96% fat-free" though...

:)

Wolfgang

[HooHaw]

That's how they label milk sold here in the Philippines. I'll take a closer look at those small prints again.

[chas]

I guess every country has its different ways of labelling milk. I just got back from New Zealand and they have their ways, too. For example, what we call Skim Milk aka Non Fat here, they called Trim Milk there.

[wgaggl]

That's how they label milk sold here in the Philippines. I'll take a closer look at those small prints again.

Interesting. In that case the question remains what "100%" would stand for. Yes, look again at the product label. It sounds unreasonable to me to sell wholemilk as "96% fatfree". So in your case that percentage could mean something different. Somewhere there should be something like total milkfat, either as a percentage of the total, or as an absolute weight of a normative volume, like the bottle content or a serving size. From that you could then calculate the percentage of milkfat. That what the percentage in the US stands for. Again, wholemilk has about 4% milkfat here.

Wolfgang

[chas]

I found this adapter http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... ms/adaptor at ChrisCoffee, which also works for the S1. This enables you to use a wider range of steam tips, as there are plenty available for a 10mm thread; like this two-hole one: http://espressoparts.com/product/F_134_2.

I think about trying it, to have more control with small milk quantities.

Wolfgang[/url]

I went to the Chris Coffee site to order the adapter and noticed that Chris also carried a two hole tip so I ordered both. The two hole tip is cheaper than the one at EPNW and saves you from two shipping charges. I was worried that the adapter would look like a kludge on the S1 but it is actually perfect. Looks like it was made for it.

It works very nice for 4oz or less of milk for those single lattes and macchiattos. Anything more and I still think I'll switch back to the three hole tip.

Here's what it looks like on the machine:

[wgaggl]

When I got the adapter, I found there's an o-ring inside it (additional to the ones on both ends), did you notice that too? Did you leave it in there?

Wolfgang

[admin]

When I got the adapter, I found there's an o-ring inside it (additional to the ones on both ends), did you notice that too? Did you leave it in there?

Wolfgang

No, I just have the black O ring that you see in the picture and a smaller yellow O ring on the threaded end that goes up into the steam arm

[NewEnglandCliff]

When you folks say '2% milk' is that like '98% fat-free milk'?

Yes, that's correct. Of course the other 2% is 100% fat.

[BillK]

Here is an update on the adapter and 2-hole steam tip. I got the adapter from Chris and the steam tip from Espressoparts. The appearance of the steam tip and adapter is similiar to what Chas has shown in the photo - no visual problems.

The steam tip, as delivered, is pretty useless in comparison to the three hole, standard tip. It provides weak steaming action for microfoam production, and is exceedingly slow. Further, when you shut off the steam valve it takes several seconds for steam in the line to purge through the tip, meaning that if you try to remove the tip from the milk you get a mess of ruined microfoam.

I measured the diameter of the holes in the standard tip and the new tip. The standard tip has #54 drill holes. The new tip has #58 drill holes. I drilled the two hole tip out to #54. Much better operation now - much stronger steam action with little delay in the steam line purge once the steam valve is closed. It really does a nice job with the 12 oz. pitcher - quick, yet more controlled than the standard tip. It is fine with a 20 oz pitcher, but not as fast or in my opinion as good as the standard tip.

One nice thing about having both tips is that you can quickly change from one to another, as long as you just use finger pressure when you tighten them. A few seconds. Because of geometry differences between the two tips, you have to use somewhat different techniques with the two as you go back and forth.

[PatRi]

I just tried the two hole tip for a week, it did not fit my requirement and did not like the need to swtich between tips.

In fact I found the 2 hole tip does a great job for single capp. with 4oz milk in a 12 oz pitcher. If that is all you need the steam for than it is great.

If you need to do two capp. or hot chocolate then you need to switch tip which I could not get used to (too lazy I guess ).

I went back to my previous setup (as proposed by Bobroseman to start this thread) which is the original tip with one hole blocked with a toothpick.
It does much much better on small quantity than the 3 hole configuration, and is still strong enough for two hot chocolate (16oz in 32 oz pitcher).

It seems two hole of the original size is the most versatile configuration for my use.

rgds, Pat

[wgaggl]

Yes, the steam tip is extremely slow. Too slow. I guess if there were a tip with 20-25% smaller holes, that might gain something especially for small milk quantities. But the EspressoParts tip as is has far too small holes. Still, if I come across another tip with slightly smaller holes than the S1 stock tip, I'll probably try it.

Wolfgang

[sraike]

I do 4-6 oz of milk at a time in a 12 oz pitcher and the stock 3 hole tip was just much steam. Tried a 2 hole like the one in the pic above and it's just not enough. And it's a PITA to clean with all those little ridges. May try another smooth 2 hole tip that I saw at Chris' site and drill out like recommended above until it's just right for me.

Coming off a Silva I'm still overwhelmed with the S1's steaming power.

Stu

[admin]

After my recent order of the two hole tip and adapter from Chris, I discovered I still had a two hole tip I had ordered from Chris about three years ago when I was still using a Tea.

The original one looks just like the one on the Chris Coffee website, but the new one I just received actually has those abominable ridges. So don't expect a smooth one if you order just because that's the picture on the web page. If you want a smooth one it's probably worth doing the order by phone and asking if you can get a smooth one.

Especially since I now have two, I may try drilling one out this weekend.

[admin]

I drilled one of my two hole tips out last weekend. I used the smallest bit I had which is 1/16". It works well but almost the same as the three hole tip. In hindsight it probably would have been better if drilled slilghtly smaller.

[bobroseman]

Ever since owning my machine I've used 16 oz pitchers and skim milk. Even though I was getting decent foam I wasn't getting great foam and couldn't do latte art. I was recently motivated to buy a 12 oz pitcher because I was wasting a lot of milk. Since using the 12 oz, things have improved. Faster steaming, better swirl, better microfoam and the beginnings of latte art. Moral: use the correct sized pitcher for the quantity of milk that you need. My S1 with the three hole tip loves 6 oz of skim milk in a 12 oz pitcher. :diabloanifire:
Bob

[swimmer]

Bob -
I only steam enough milk for a double cap. I had the process down on my old machine though it was slooooow.
I'm blown away with the steam on the S1. Unfortunately, I blink my eyes and voila...hot milk. I was thinking about getting a smaller pitcher - my current one is a 20 oz bell shaped.
What shape is the one you just got? and...do you still keep one of the holes on the tip blocked w/ a toothpick?
S

[bobroseman]

Bob -
I only steam enough milk for a double cap. I had the process down on my old machine though it was slooooow.
I'm blown away with the steam on the S1. Unfortunately, I blink my eyes and voila...hot milk. I was thinking about getting a smaller pitcher - my current one is a 20 oz bell shaped.
What shape is the one you just got? and...do you still keep one of the holes on the tip blocked w/ a toothpick?
S

This is the pitcher I've been using. The 12 oz will produce enough milk for a 14 oz cap or two 5 oz caps. Try the tooth picks - it can't hurt. Just jam them in and break them off. Try one first and then two.

Bob

[alsterling]

This may be a little late in the game for frothing input, but I just got another accessory shipment from Chriscoffee....

Adaptor 8mm Female to 10mm Male @ 10.95
New Isomac 2 Hole Steam Tip @ 8.50

Unscrewed the stock 3 hole and screwed this one on......... for me, because I froth really small amounts of milk for my doubles, I was essentially back to the frothing control I had with the Expobar's single hole tip.

I just crack the S1 steam valve open and use the very low end of the valve. The 2 hole tip appears to have smaller hole diameters than the 3 hole, which is what I wanted.

From my rather few months of experience, I'm finding that it's better to run smaller volumes of steam if I want to have maximum control and micro froth. Obviously, the trick is to find the optimal mix of amount of steam, steam pressure and time-in-milk.

I don't understand, really don't, why Starbucks operators run multiple frothing containers and apparently reuse the already frothed milk? I know they have volume, but do they actually refroth the milk? It appears, from some locations that I've seen, that they run maybe three or four containers, let them cool at ambient, then refroth? Am I missing something here?

Best, Al

[bobroseman]

This may be a little late in the game for frothing input, but I just got another accessory shipment from Chriscoffee....

Adaptor 8mm Female to 10mm Male @ 10.95
New Isomac 2 Hole Steam Tip @ 8.50

Unscrewed the stock 3 hole and screwed this one on......... for me, because I froth really small amounts of milk for my doubles, I was essentially back to the frothing control I had with the Expobar's single hole tip. ..................

I don't understand, really don't, why Starbucks operators run multiple frothing containers and apparently reuse the already frothed milk? I know they have volume, but do they actually refroth the milk? It appears, from some locations that I've seen, that they run maybe three or four containers, let them cool at ambient, then refroth? Am I missing something here?

Best, Al

So, I take it that you like the smaller two hole tip?

I understand that one time reheating is allowed within the industry. I wouldn't like to think that the better shops do this. If I saw a barista resteaming milk for my drink, I'd tell him (her) that it was not acceptable.

Bob

[alsterling]

Bob.......I'd agree too. Once heated, I don't know if the milk, second time around, is molecularly the same, nor really has the same fresh taste. I constantly work at getting my micro froth ASAP and stopping the frothing well before the 140-160 F mark. The less time with the steam wand, the better the milk taste; at least from my experience.

BTW, did my first run of the Hottop Digital last night with the sample coffee they supply. I went to a Full City; second crack plus a few seconds. Surprisingly, although I thought I might have burned the beans, they were dark roasted in color but had a great mild flavor this AM when I brewed a bit. I probably wasted more beans in the grinder only because I thought the taste would be a total loss................ instead it was pretty damn good?

Anyway, I do like that Hottop. It's a breeze and looks like the final add on for my coffee workshop. (famous last words!)

Best, Al

[HooHaw]

HELP !

I just gone through another 3 liters of 3.25% milk without being able to produce microfoam!

AUGH!

There, got that off my chest. I'm using a 3-holer, 12-13oz ceramic pitcher that's roughly straight, 2 different brands of UHT 3.25% milk. I'd like to use a stainless steel pitcher but I can't find any in town, yet.

I usually start in the middle with the tip about 1/2"-1" in the cold milk to stretch from 80F to 120F then move off center to spin until I get to 150F. But all I get are small foam that's hard to see unless you stare at it real close.

What am I doing wrong??? Is it the way I smell? *Sniff* *Sniff*

Oh well...

[alsterling]

I purchased the 2 hole tip with adapter from Chriscoffee. Before that, I stuck toothpick ends in two of the three holes of the stock tip. You don't all that steam for 6 oz. of milk.

I've used whole milk to 2% with good results.

Secondly, I've always stored my milk pitchers in the freezer. I pour cold milk into a ultra-cold pitcher. You want really cold milk. You could do it with ceramic also.

Third, I don't submerge the tip to get the milk temp up. I start with the tip at an angle at the shallow top of the pitcher. I get immediate swirl action. I don't open the valve too much. Just to start the swirl.

By 140 F I've got froth......and stop before 160 F.

Summary; use a really chilled pitcher. Don't open the valve too much. Stay in the shallows of the milk.

Good luck, Al

[BillK]

You should not stretch your milk to 120 deg. You should stop stretching it at about 100 deg.

I have not seen anybody use a ceramic pitcher. All the frothing pitchers I have ever seen are stainless. There is at least one good reason for this, which is that if you hold your hand against the side of the pitcher you can feel when the milk is just starting to get warm. This is one good way you can use to stop stretching the milk.

If it was me, I would order a 20 oz. stainless steaming pitcher with a reasonably sharp spout. I would use the standard, three hole tip that comes with the S1. I would fill the pitcher to exactly one inch below the low point of the spout with *whole* milk. You can easily see the bottom of the pouring spout from the inside of the pitcher as you pour the milk. I would always start with a full head of steam. I would stretch the milk until it is level with the low point of the spout, in other words I would stretch the milk one inch. If you have stretched the milk properly, you should just begin to feel the side of the pitcher starting to warm up, no more. It happens fast, even with a 20 oz pitcher, if you do it well. You will be far below 120 degrees. Now move the pitcher so that the wand is to one side and tip the pitcher, or do whatever you have to do to get the milk to spin like crazy. When the side of the pitcher gets too hot for you to comfortably touch let it steam a couple of more seconds then cut off the steam. If you have a few big bubbles, bang the pitcher on the counter top. Spin the milk in the pitcher to even-out the texture. If you have a lot of big bubbles all over the place, walk to the sink, deposit the milk, re-load, and try again. Yo probably got the milk too hot before you stopped stretching.

Once you have the feel of it, you can go on to things like 12 oz pitchers and 2% milk and two hole wands etcetera. But I think that starting with a 20 oz pitcher is the easiest, most controllable way to begin. The reason is that you are dealing with a large enough volume of milk that you won't have it blasting up to the ceiling and you won't have things happening as fast as with a smaller amount of milk, yet the steaming power of the S1 will be plenty to make it spin like crazy. Whole milk makes the finest textured microfoam and is the easiest to start with, IMHO.

The absolute best way is to watch somebody else do it, if you have the opporunity. I was frustrated like you, after much practice, a couple of years back. We traveled to L.A. and stopped at the Coffee Klatch Cafe, where Heather Perry the U.S. barista champ a couple of years back worked. I wanted to meet her and order a beverage from her. She wasn't there, but her folks were. I introduced myself and mentioned to her mother of my frustration with microfoam. She immediately dragged me behind the bar and showed me exactly how it was done. I saw it once, and instantly knew what the final product looked like and basically how she had done it, and things got better right away after that. And I didn't have the steam power of an S1 at the time, which would have made the learning process better.

[BillK]

Oh, I forgot to mention that you are not going to get the milk stretched if you have the wand buried an inch into the milk. You have to lower the pitcher from that point until you hear a ripping sound. This is the sound of air getting shot into the milk. You are probably going to get some large bubbles doing this, until you get your technique just right, but the swirling and banging should take care of them, as long as you stop stretching well before the milk gets hot to the touch.

[Shutterman]

Certainly not taking away anything from the excellent tips here, but Bill...it appears you've taken the time to write a nice tutorial for the new-at-this folks like me.

As far as the stretching is concerned....if I understand you correctly, are you saying to sink the tip to somewhere roughly between the surface of the milk and one inch below it (e.g., 1/4" to 1/2" below the surface) to begin the stretching? And this may be a rank newbie question...but if you're running something like the S1 at full steam, at what point to you turn on the steam valve? Before you sink the tip or after?

I think your tip of getting someplace to watch someone do it is sound. Trouble is, in my locale there aren't any decent shops around. I've seen a video or two, but it's hard to tell from them precisely what's going on. Then again, I may have to search around to see if anyone's posted anything new.

At any rate...thanks for taking the time to do this little tutorial. It, along with the other great tips in this thread, will no doubt help those of us with less experience.

-Dean

[HooHaw]

Thanks guys.

Al, tried that jam-the-third-hole route but no go. I couldn't get it to seal well and all it did was condense water.

Bob, I'm working on that stainless steel pitcher and it's kinda hard to find it out here in Davao City, Philippines. Harder too, is finding a barista that don't steam milk like I do.

Say... maybe someone can make a nice 640x480 30fps video in stereo milk steaming tutorial. :D

Again, thanks guys will have another go at it.

[BillK]

Sorry, it didn't start out to be a tutorial. Rather, I just wanted to make a few comments to help out Hoo Haw, who is struggling a little.

Given that it has become somewhat of a tutorial, I thought I would go over to my machine and do it and observe closely what I am doing, as it has become pretty automatic. I have a change or two to what I wrote earlier.

The first thing I note is that I do not fill the milk to 1" below the low point of the pouring spout, as I indicated earlier. It is 1/2" below. Talk about a bad mind's eye, I was only off by 100% in my estimate. Incidentally, my 20 oz pitcher has the bottom of the pouring spout starting at 2-3/8" from the bottom of the pitcher, measured on the inside of the pitcher. One half inch expansion is not much. If I don't care about latte art and just want a great, creamy head for a cappuccino I will let it expand a bit more because the final result will be a thicker cap on top of the drink. But if you want to try latte art, 1/2" is probably a good point to stop expanding.

I start with the steam turned-off, of course. On the S1, I pull the wand straight out, toward me (I don't have room in my kitchen to go off to the left.) I orient the business part of the wand pretty much straight up-and-down, with the wand hitting the pitcher on the back of the lip of the pitcher and limiting movement. The wand is in the middle of the pitcher. The wand is well down into the milk.

I turn on the steam. I don't start with the steam on quite full blast, but I suggest that you do, as it makes for fewer moving parts during the course of the procedure. It will work just about as well as modulating the steam flow. On my machine, full blast is about 1/8 turn after meeting first resistance on the knob.

Notice the sound of the steam rushing into the pitcher. Now lower the pitcher until you start hearing a different, louder sound - "chhhhhhh". This is the sound of air getting injected into the milk, along with the steam. Stop dropping the pitcher as soon as you hear this sound, then hold the pitcher at this level until the milk has expanded 1/2". Then plunge the wand all the way down. At this point, I have counted-off just a bit less than 10 seconds from the time I opened the valve, and the side of the pitcher has just started to change temperature. The milk is nowhere near 120 deg. It probably isn't even 100 deg., and I am done expanding the milk.

Continued in the next note. For some reason, I cannot post a long note...

[BillK]

Continued:

The milk is now expanded by 1/2", and the wand is buried in the middle of the milk, and the milk is churning in all different directions. Next, I move the pitcher to the right, so that the wand has moved to the left of center. As I am doing this, I push the wand up with the back of the lip of the pitcher, as far as it will move (another thing I didn't realize I do until today). This tips the wand forward, so that if I took the pitcher away the steam would be tending to shoot at my feet rather than straight down. As I am doing this, I tip the pitcher itself. I tip it so that the front of the pitcher moves away from me and the bottom of the pitcher moves to the right - the pitcher winds up being cocked backward and to the left. I think I do this entire thing as one compound move. In this orientation I normally have to drop the pitcher just a bit to get the milk to start to spin. And it really spins fast. (If you get the "chhhhh" spitting sound again, the wand has come out of the milk and you now have big problems because you have injected air into hot milk which creates small bubbles that are too coarse for microfoam and you will never get rid of them. The microfoam is ruined by injecting air into hot milk. Don't let this sound occur during the spinning phase.) There will have been some larger bubbles left over from the stretching step, and they tend to congregate around the wand and then disappear as the milk spins and spins. Any technique you use to make the milk spin is fine; this is mine.

I spin the milk until the side of the pitcher is uncomfortable to keep hanging on to. I remove my hot hand and keep spinning the milk for about two more seconds, then I cut the steam. If there are any bubbles left, I gently rap the pitcher on the counter top until they are gone. I then spin the milk by hand until it is perfectly uniform. I suggest using whole milk for training, as it gives an incredibly fine, smooth texture. The entire operation requires coordinated movement. You should rehearse the movements and you should try the movements with water. Pretty soon muscle memory takes over and at this point is is automatic and you can now stop thinking about movements and start really looking at the progress of the milk.

I hope this helps. Creating microfoam can be frustrating, I know.

[Shutterman]

Wow, Bill...what a complete and detailed description of your technique. I know you invested a good deal of time in writing this. What can I say except thanks? I continue to be amazed at the generosity of others in the pursuit of a shared passion.

I do have a follow up question, however. When you say,

"Then plunge the wand all the way down. At this point, I have counted-off just a bit less than 10 seconds from the time I opened the valve..."

I'm assuming you don't mean to plunge the wand to the very bottom of the pitcher, i.e., with the wand touching the metal bottom? I'm guessing you mean to plunge it down deeper into the body of the milk?

Thanks,

-Dean

[HooHaw]

Thanks Bill, will definitely try again soon.

[hlsheppard]

Not that I necessarily want to "hi-jack" the thread; but I just installed one of the new 4 hole steam tips from Chris'.

I got pretty consistent microfoam with the 3 hole time. Not always, but "good enough."

I'm here to tell you that the 4 hole tip (at least for me) practically makes it's own microfoam. I've pours a perfect rosetta every time so far (watch me screw it up tomorrow! )

I'm one happy "converter."

[PatRi]

Following your post I checked on Chris site for more info on the 4 hole tip, that is interesting.
One question on the 4 hole tip, are the holes the same size as the three hole (std tip) or the two hole tip that is discussed in this thread (if you have one)
huge thanks,
Pat

[Shutterman]

hlsheppard: How much milk are you steaming, and what sized pitcher are you using?

The news about the 4 hole tip is encouraging. I ordered my S1 two days ago from Chris Coffee and asked Mary which tip she would recommend. She said the 4 hole tip, so I told her to go ahead. Sounds like I might have made a good choice.

-Dean

[hlsheppard]

I think the 4 holes are slightly smaller than the three holes (just "eyeing" it).

I am using a 20 oz. pitcher (the exact style shown earlier in the thread) and steaming about 10oz of milk. I basically fill it to just where the base of the pour spout starts (maybe 12 oz??).

All I can say for certain is it works like a charm. Sorry, I'm not as precise as some here. For me the whole process is more about feel and sight than precision measurements. Go figure, as conservative retentive as I can be...

[HooHaw]

OH YEAH!

I finally scored a 20oz pitcher!

I found it at my La Spaziale dealer and, yes, it was a 'DUH!' moment for me. And it was the last one too, talk about timing.

Now I'm ready for some serious steaming...

[BillK]

I just ordered a new, 4-hole tip from Chris - didn't know one was offered until I read it here. I had an Oscar prior to the S1 and it had a 4-hole tip. Getting good microfoam texture was easier on the Oscar in spite of the fact that it had less steam power than the S1.

[admin]

I guess I should check in for historical perspective. My S1 and all those purchased in the first 6-9 months came standard with the 4 hole tip. However, many complained about the tip claiming they were getting macro-foam rather than micro-foam. So Chris offered the 3 hole tip free to anyone that wanted one and started shipping that one as standard.

Now it looks like things are coming full circle. I actually have cycled through using the 2 hole, 3 hole, and 4 hole tips over the last year. They each have their strengths and weaknesses but with practice you can get good result with any of them. I think the result from each depends on the quantity of milk, the specific size and style of pitcher used, and the level of experience.

[PatRi]

Are the holes on the 4 hole tip smaller than the 3 hole tips. Would you say they are closer to the holes in the 2 hole or 3hole tip?
Huge thanks, Pat

[HooHaw]

Well folks, finally got micro-foam but I think I'm foaming too much. Whenever I pour the crema gets marked straight away instead of heading down to the coffee.

[PatRi]

Hi HooHaw,

When I got a better feel for milk steaming with the S1, i realized it was real easy to stretch a few seconds to much and get a nice big block of white stuff in the middle of the cup. So practice/patience is important and taste great anyway

Maybe a few feedback that helped me:
1) Try reducing the temperature to which you stretch your milk. I used to do it up to 100F now I stop at 80F (then I put the tip down in the pitcher until it gets to 140F) with micro-foam that is much smoother. Also thermometer can be off by a few degrees, so try go low to the point you do not have enough foam just to see where it starts producing what you need.

2) If you are looking for micro-foam to do latte art, the "purist" might not like this, but this trick helped a lot at first and as I refined my milk steaming technique I do not use it anymore (well not often ).
-After you finish steaming, do not wait too long or milk/foam separates.
-rotate your pitcher 4-5 turns to mix milk/foam has much as you can.
-If your milk is has a nice white shinny texture on the outside and a circle of not so shinny foam like texture in the middle; then scoop the middle part using a spoon. Do it just on the surface (less than 1/4" or 3mm deep) such that you remove the foam but keep the microfoam under it. If you rotate your pitcher now, your milk should be all shinny and ready to pour, if not you had really overstertched during steaming.

3) Start pouring higher ( 4 inches or 10 cm) with a higher flow and bring your pitcher down as you reduce flow until it starts marking the milk. Check some of the great videos in the latte art section of CG on the web to get a feel.

hope it helps, rgds, Pat

[HooHaw]

Hi Pat!

I chucked the thermometer and went with the stretch-until-hot-to-the-palm method. Problem was, I seem to have a higher pain treshold and was stretching too long. I've since made adjustments.

Thanks.

[chas]

Hi Pat!

I chucked the thermometer and went with the stretch-until-hot-to-the-palm method. Problem was, I seem to have a higher pain treshold and was stretching too long. I've since made adjustments.

Thanks.

I can see why this didn't work if you meant that literally. The way I heard it is to stretch until you can just tell that the milk is no longer cold but barely has some warmth. After all, you're shooting for a temperature lower than your own skin temp to switch from stretch to swirl.

[Niko]

So what's your pitcher(s) of choice?
What size and which brand, etc..

[chas]

I have at least three sizes of pitcher - small, medium, and large straight sided and one medium bell shaped. I use the medium ones most since I usually steam for one drink at a time. I think they are 12oz.

I like the steaming and swirling action best in the bell shaped pitcher but there is something lacking in my technique where I can't get latte art worth a damn with it. I do have pretty good luck with latte art using the straight sided pitcher.

There's something about my back and forth hand movement with the bell shaped pitcher where I get a rotary component going and the resulting latte art isn't! Others swear by the bell shaped one so it must just be me.

[Niko]

I think it is a matter of personal preference.
I can't steam worth a damn in the straight sided pitchers, the quality foam is there but I just can't pour anything artsy out of those.
I hardly ever pour just one drink at a time so the 12oz pitchers don't get much action. I LOVE using the 12oz'ers though, man does the S1 smoke these in no time! I love it when I bust out the 25oz'er to give the Spaz a work out, lattes are the "Stairmaster" of drink exercise for my machines. But my all time favorite pitcher is the venerable Alessi 17oz work of art, functional art that actually gets used the most in my collection.

[italyhound]

Interesting reading this thread after trying to steam for the first couple of times. Although I have a 4 hole tip for the V2, I started with the 2 hole. It seems like a heck of a lot of steam but folks here seem to be of the mind that the 4 is better.

Newbie alert here:

I can certainly try the 4 and will but what is the benefit of even MORE power? I have been steaming fairly quickly using the 2hole. I imagine it would take a few blinks with a bigger tip!

Thanks

[bbqnut]

I can just tell you - I have both the 3 & 4 hole tip and a 20 oz pitcher.

Even with a pitcher that I keep in the freezer and very cold milk, I have gotten decent microfoam once out of about 10 tries. It just goes way too fast. I suppose after a lot more practice I could work with the 3 hole, but why if the 2 hole is easier?

I want the force but not the volume, so I am going to get the 2 hole and see how that goes.

[Niko]

I'm about to try a 4 hole tip when it arrives sometime next week. I'm hoping for more power. The benefit is tremendous, it's all about speed baby, control comes later...
I can steam in a thimble at 2 bars. Woohoo!

[italyhound]

So my microfoam seems pretty nice. I am not trying to do latte art - yet- but notice when it pours it goes right under the crema into the coffee instead of staying on top that it does with art. Should I be letting it settle after frothing or am I not getting the right consistency as of yet?

Just curious is all ...


Evan

[woodchuck]

It took me a little time to get used to the extra steam with the four hole tip but I am getting pretty good microfoam from an 8 oz pitcher of milk now. Just took some practice. Am now working my way down to 6oz. Also Italyhound, I'm no latte art guy but if you have enough density in your microfoam it will float through the crema as you continue to pour especially if you move the spout of your pitcher very close to the coffee as you continue the pour.

Cheers

Ian

[Niko]

I've been using the 4-hole tip for a few days now.
I love it.
Takes a little more finesse on the smaller quantities but the reward is super sonic speed. My favorite thing to do is froth in the 12oz pitcher in less than 10 seconds.

[italyhound]

I decided to see what it's like to use the 4 hole tip. Lo and behold, my machine came with the 2 hole tip and the 4 hole doesn't fit on the wand. Did I receive a 4 hole tip for a different machine?

Evan

[chas]

That's very bizarre. I've never heard of one coming with a 2 hole tip. The only two hole tip that I am aware of for the S1 requires an adapter. You should check after the 2 hole tip is unscrewed that there is not an adapter still in place.

The 2 hole adapter I have has male threads on both ends. If there is no adapter attached to your steam wand you should just have a plain end on the steam wand since the female threads are internal to the steam arm.

In the photo below from where the steam arm bevels outward down to the rubber O ring is the adapter.



The photo below is my assortment of S1 tips. You can't see it well in this photo but the 2 hole tip is the only one with the internal female threads. All the others have external male threads.

[italyhound]

I have the S2 and it came already with the 2 hole attached because I asked for a 2 hole with it and they put it on for me and gave me the 4 hole in a plastic bag. It's definitely male threading at the end of the wand and I can't unscrew anything like an adapter. The 2 hole does have a male adapter so may be I need a wrench but before I attempt that I will give Chris' a call.

Evan

[blacroix]

It seems like I get some decent microfoam (after I steam, I give it a knock and a couple swirls - the consistency goes to smooth and glossy). I get separation when I pour, kindof like I've seen in the videos, but haven't made any successful latte art - except ONCE... on Valentines day, I made a successful heart. Talk about timing!!!

I'm using mugs from Crate & Barrell - they're straight walled with a flat bottom - so there isn't a coutour on the inside of the cup like a traditional, rounded capp. cup or mug. I was wondering if this coutour directed the milk/foam so as to direct the art. Anyone know?

Brian

[Weska]

I've not had much success with latte art either. I can make a fairly reliable sprig, but nothing you would call a rosetta. However, before I started using a rounded cup, I couldn't even make sprigs.

I think the rounded shape is an assist, though not essential once you are skilled. I had seen it recommended as an aid to latte art, and that's why I tried it.

[italyhound]

Interesting this comes up since I had never even imagined I would utter the words latte art this early on but since my microfoam is pretty good almost always, I have thought about venturing in. I started watching cool videos on the net. I also learned through HB that the milk should be stretched less but i haven't actually made a go of it at this point.

Maybe the artists in here can chime in.

To follow up my other point, Chris' said there is definitely a male adapter on my wand and so I will get it off with a wrench. I am having good success with the 2 hole (I steam small quantities) so I don't know why I am asking for trouble. Speed is not an issue at this point.

Evan