Are you satisfied with your Vario ?

[Abnuceals]

Hi Everyone
I don't want to make Vario bashing, I just want to know if you are still happy with your Vario grinder. I know that some folks here use it as a second (or third ?) grinder but for the common man as me, it's my main coffee grinder and I don't consider it as cheap. Mine gave me a couple of months of good service (but IMO it is not long enough). It is now broken because of a small rock and I'm waiting (since exactly one month) for the parts to fix it by myself. Yeah, I know one month is a long time since I only have a small Braun grinder to do the job. I ordered the parts at Baratza in the first days of June at the same time that began a partial strike at Canada Post. I specifically asked to the Baratza's representative to ship the parts via a private mail service (UPS or the one he would choose) but he refused to do that because it was too much expensive. Maybe it was, but to save a penny he made an angry customer and I still don't have my parts after one month (the work conflict have been settle since 10 days so this is no more an excuse).
But don't be mistaken. I like this grinder. For the price, it's doing an honest job but I'm really concerned about its reliability and I'm sure I'm not the only one. And I think if someone is selling a "fragile" product at a high price, the least he could do is to give the highest support as possible (what I did not receive until now). It's my opinion.
If you have an opinion on Baratza products or support, don't hesitate to share it. It's part of a good education for newbies like me.

[Endo]

As you may have heard already, I've had problems with mine too. After a year or so use, side-by-side with my SJ, here's my thoughts:

It's fragile. My first one had levers that were too lose and the setting would move on its own. They sent me shims to fix it, but soon after it ate something too hard for its liking and the belt gear stripped. After that, they sent me a refurbished unit. The macro adjustment got stuck in espresso and it wouldn't grind coarse. After I took it completley apart, cleaned everything and pushed the lower burr carrier down manually, it finally ground coarse. Unforunately, the fine grind end is now off. I can't seem to grind fine enough for a ristretto any longer (even though the burrs are touching at the zero mark).

Even though I am around the 1 year warranty time, I suspect if I complained enough to Baratza, they would send me another refurbished unit. But like you, I'm waiting a bit longer for the post office to get going smoothly again. I'll also spend this time tinkering with the zero point to see if I can get something fine enough that doesn't seem to overload the motor.

All I can say is, if this was my primary grinder, I'd be totally pissed! Luckily, my trusty Mazzer SJ hasn't missed a beat, so while it's annoying, it's manageable for me.

I liken it to buying camera equipment. You can spend the money and get a nice used Canon L lens on E-bay for $500 and it will last almost forever. You can even mis-handle and sometimes even drop them, and since they are so well built, they will survive (that's pro gear). Or, you can buy a new amature plastic 50mm Canon F1.8 lens for $130. It will take pictures almost as well, but drop it once and your done.

The only difference here with the grinders is you can get a used commercial strength Mazzer SJ for less price than a new amature Vario. So the bottom line is: if you have the space for it and can live without the timed Vario dosing convenience, get the Mazzer.

[Abnuceals]

I knew when I bought the Vario I was not buying a Mazzer... I bought it in the same time I bought the La Spaziale and it was alreaydy a big (and luxury) expense. Hopefully my wife is completely sold to the Mini now and she's pissed off to be forced drinking sh.. because of the broken Vario. Maybe she could contribute for a nice SJ Hmm I'm just dreaming awake. If I want a grinder at that price I'm better to save my spare change for a while and stop stimulate our local economy I just bought a brand new bike last week and it cost much more than a La Spaziale or a Mazzer... And btw, no I'm not yet living in the doghouse.

[richardcoffee]

So I see the new Vario costs $450. I have $250 in my Fiorenzato Pietro T80 that I got on e-bay and then put new burrs in. Boy am I glad that I did that. This is a thoroughly reliable grinder for espresso. I guess the down side is that it would take a day to readjust for a coarse grind so I use it only for espresso.

[JohnB]

I only kept my Vario(s) for two months but luckily I bought used in warranty. 1st one started dropping the micro lever during grinding so it was replaced with a later production model by Baratza. Second one held the settings while I owned it (6 weeks) but the hopper lock out switch was fiddly & I saw way too many quality issues to consider keeping it long term. As the Varios age more & more of these quality control/poor design issues are popping up. The hopper engagement design of the inexpensive Capresso Infinity & Breville XL800 are fair superior to the flimsy Vario set up. I won't even get into the 2 lever adjustment design which is "fixed" by wedging shims in to hold them up????

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/va ... 18229.html

[Endo]

I will not smash my Vario....
I will not smash my Vario....
I will not smash my Vario....
I will not smash my Vario....
I will not smash my Vario....
I will not smash my Vario....
I will not smash my Vario....
I will not smash my Vario....I will not smash my Vario....
I will not smash my Vario....I will not smash my Vario....I will not smash my Vario....I will not smash my Vario....I will not smash my Vario....

[JohnB]

Did someone say K10 Pro Barista????

[Abnuceals]

I will not smash my Vario....

Endo, don't do that. Just use it, whacking your Pharos on it.

[txrpls]

I've had no problems with mine, but only use it twice a month or so at the other house... I'm pretty happy with my daily use Pro-M.

[Louis]

More than a year later, yes, I'm still satisfied with my Vario. Shims have been added and I don't have any remaining functionality issues. In the first months, grind re-adjustment was often needed, which is no longer the case (burrs "seasoning"?).

Sure, I would have liked it to be tank-like built as Mazzers, but it is not. Other than that, I have yet to find another grinder that compared nicely to titan-class grinders in blind taste tests, costs 1/3 to 1/4 of one, has extremely low grind retention, needs no particular routine (no clumping/WDT, no brushing, no doser clacking and cleaning), is perfect for single-dosing (and also good with a full hopper with timed dosing), is small and has exceptional WAF and, last but not least, fits nicely with the S1!

Give me a doserless K10 with no grind retention, home-barista friendly (routine = portafilter in, push a button, portafilter out), good at single dosing and as small as the Vario and I'll buy it immediately; else, reason tells me to keep the consumer-grade Vario...

[Abnuceals]

More seriously, I could take into consideration to buy a Pharos, since some of the early problems are resolved. I know there is an inconvenience price to pay in using regularly the Pharos but such a nice and fine grinding and the discovery (for me) of new taste profiles at such a low price, It's a real bargain.

[Endo]

Sometimes I feel I've wasted enough coffee trying to recalibrate my Vario that it would have been cheaper if I just bought the K10.

I can' t see how anyone could possibly use this grinder for both espresso and French press. If I waste a bag of coffee recalibrating, I can set it up for one or the other, but both seems impossible.

Right now I'm trying to reset the grinder for espresso after "exercising" it in the coarse range (as recommended by Baratza Support). My zero point is now totally different and I can't seem to get it fine enough for espresso without going several micro notches below zero and making the motor struggle.

I miss my Mazzer.

[Endo]

After running the hopper empty a few times and adjusting it with the fancy hex key tool they provide, it eventually settled into a relatively steady espresso grind size I can live with. Now I just need to adjust the timer to get the right dose. Unfortunately, I'm now out of coffee.

Good think I kept the batch of Starbucks beans someone gave me for Christmas. Makes horrible coffee, but great for recalibrating grinders.

[GDK]

I am on my second Vario-W as the first just lost the ability to grind fine. It seems to be a good espresso only, or anything else only grinder as it does not like frequent grind adjustments. Based on my experience:

* do not go more than a notch or two below the zero point, as it was pointed elsewhere, setting should be several micro notches above (coarser than) zero. I up-dose temporarily instead until grind adjustment settles.
* be patient (as much as possible ;) ) as it will eventually find its previous setting. Try running it empty for a minute or so as opposed to wasting coffee in the process.

I have taken apart the previous grinder to understand how everything works - a relatively simple mechanism which should work but has that issue nonetheless.

Given my morning routine before going to work, the Vario W fits my needs perfectly. Pharos may be a weekend option to play with. I may follow Endo's lead here.

[Endo]

Thanks for you feedback GDK. Your experience seems to mirror mine exactly.

I've been asking for months on CoffeeGeek if this is normal behaviour for the Vario, but nobody seems to answer. Are there that many people who just accept it as normal ? Or is it perhaps that everyone simply uses it exclusively for espresso?

Whatever the reason, I have a person who is now interested in buying my Vario. So despite its convenience, it may soon be gone to make room for the K10.

On the other hand, the Pharos is another story. I'm liking this grinder more and more. The taste is just incredible, and I've gotten faster using it (and with less mess). It may also be sold (or go back to OE) to make way for the K10. But I just may keep it since it is so inexpensive, silent, and rather fun to play with. It has a lot of "modding" potential and you don't need to worry as much about screwing it up (like a $1500 K10).

[zedex]

I am super satisfied with my vario. I have had it for probably 4 years now and its still great. I use it mostly 99% for espresso but in the summer i grind course for camping trips. Other than that, i had to recalibrate it once,run grindz through it once. No complaints.
It will be a frosty day in hell when i buy a pharos. Thats just friggin crazy.

[Abnuceals]

I learned to be less demanding with my Vario. Since I have the K8 for all-day espressos, I use Vario only with decaf after dinner.
If I'm lurking on the Pharos' side, it's only because I want to explore the more fruity taste profile of some beans, what I could'nt do with the K8 and or the Vario. And seriously, I could not justify the K10's cost to my accounting (call it WAF if you want). It could probably be a kind of good companion for my next buying, a lever machine (accounting will have nothing to say on that). I'm still undecided wich one it will be. Mcal and Strega are struggling hard in my mind. Oh, BTW, S1 will stay in my kitchen.

[GDK]

OK, my satisfaction with the Vario is really hit and miss - completely dependent on coffee bean type.

I always try to buy fresh beans from local coffee shops. Only one or two types (Toscana being one of them) the grinder would work with by the book - letting me pull long nice shots (30-35 secs w/ pre-infusion) and allowing me to fine tune seconds. Grinder is 2-4 micro notches coarser than the zero point.

Pulling good shots with quite a few other bean types (the majority) has been a row of frustrations - not acceptable. I bought those beans several times to make sure I did not just hit a stale batch. Here is the scoop. I dose 16g and get 20sec shots even at 1-2 clicks finer than the zero point where burrs touch and motor slowed down. Careful distribution and varying tamp pressure does not help. I do not want to goo too many clicks below the zero point as this my have cause my previous Vario to loose ability to grind fine completely.

Has anyone seen something similar? How often do you have to go finer than the zero point with your Vario?

[Endo]

Has anyone seen something similar? How often do you have to go finer than the zero point with your Vario?

I'm 4 or 5 micro-nothces below zero when I go back to espresso after being in the drip range. It seems it needs some time below zero before it settles in. I waste a LOT of good coffee this way.

Frustrating is right.

[GDK]

The thing is I do not ever move out of espresso range and it still sucks. Here is the story:

- when I use Toscana, 16g dose, fresh or 20+ days old, setting is 2-4 micro-clicks coarser than the zero point and all goes by the book - fairly stable shots even when I vary dose and tamp pressure a bit
- then I try Bridgehead or other local or Montreal blend starting at the same setting and I get a gusher.
- I start tightening the grind by a click and try again - another gusher
- I end up going tighter than the zero point by a click or two (quite a swing) - still a gusher - channeling likely culprit. With the naked portafilter I sometimes see a proper start (nice cone forming for a few secs) and then a disaster..
- I bought these other grinds several times to exclude the freshness variable with the same bad results
- then after the above frustration cycle, I decide to go back to Toscana and it is where grinder misbehaves for a while before it goes back to snap with this bean type. I can deal with that part. The secret seems to be to leave the grinder alone for several hours as it gets out of wack some how after continuous testing.

The problem is that with most blends out there (other than Toscana), I can get a semi-decent shot only if I updose to 17+g and grind sub-zero. Does not sound right to me...

[Louis]

I use a trick to quickly find the espresso sweet spot in the Vario calibration, using the digital timer and a definite amount of coffee (by weight). See this thread at Home-Barista.com (which didn't get much readers...):

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/sh ... 19348.html

With less than 3g of coffee, I find about the correct grind for espresso for a specific coffee. This isn't a panacea, but it does help.

[GDK]

This is smart Louis. Since I have the W, I have to set the weight and time the shots manually. If weight is reached faster, then grind should be tighter.

In my case, I am not only concerned with cutting the waste while recalibrating but finding a good setting at all. It seems that many blends just cannot work for me.

Do you find your grind setting going finer than the zero point, how often? What dose do you usually use? Thanks.

[Louis]

This is smart Louis. Since I have the W, I have to set the weight and time the shots manually. If weight is reached faster, then grind should be tighter.

In my case, I am not only concerned with cutting the waste while recalibrating but finding a good setting at all. It seems that many blends just cannot work for me.

Do you find your grind setting going finer than the zero point, how often? What dose do you usually use? Thanks.

It does happen, but only with very light roasts. When Café St-Henri (Jean-François Leduc's own brûlerie) opened in Montréal, I bought a bag of his very first roast... which he later admitted was way too light ( I guess he was nervous then; his Godshot blend is now quite nice!). When I tried to grind it, even having the burr laboring against each other, the resulting grind was still too coarse. This is an extreme example but it does show what you're referring to and it did happen again a few times with my own roasts that were lighter: I need to have the burrs touching enough for the motor noise to change a bit in order to achieve the correct grind. I don't worry about it as its only the flat outside of the burrs that are touching, but it is, maybe... strange?

I like true cappuccinos (5 oz Inker cup from OE) and, as I've found the S1 to be a real pleasure to make singles, I mostly do singles. I've ended up using a 8 to 8.5g dose. For a double, which I make less often, I usually default to 16g.

I may pull the trigger on a Pharos... it would be interesting to see the grind/cup difference.

[Endo]

It does happen, but only with very light roasts. When Café St-Henri (Jean-François Leduc's own brûlerie) opened in Montréal, I bought a bag of his very first roast... which he later admitted was way too light ( I guess he was nervous then; his Godshot blend is now quite nice!). When I tried to grind it, even having the burr laboring against each other, the resulting grind was still too coarse.

Your lucky. I also bought a first batch of JF's Godshot (I have no idea why he even bothered to sell this horrible roast). It actually broke my first Vario!

I need to have the burrs touching enough for the motor noise to change a bit in order to achieve the correct grind. I don't worry about it as its only the flat outside of the burrs that are touching, but it is, maybe... strange?

I also need to run below zero at times. To be honest, it worries me. I opened up my Vario and I can saw the fragile and puny motor and plastic gear system. It's nothing like the Mazzzer. I've heard some people have already burned out their motors and I wonder how long mine will last?

I may pull the trigger on a Pharos... it would be interesting to see the grind/cup difference.

It blows away the Vario. In fact, since it has the 68mm burrs and no heat from the motor, I'd argue it is proabably the best grinder "tastewise" ....at any price. On the down side, it is also probably the most inconvenient grinder ever made....at any price.

[JohnB]

In fact, since it has the 68mm burrs and no heat from the motor, I'd argue it is proabably the best grinder "tastewise" ....at any price. On the down side, it is also probably the most inconvenient grinder ever made....at any price.

Well at least we can agree about one thing.

[expy98]

on the other hand, I don't think the Pharos is any worse than the repetitive pulsing the motor, brushing the chute, pumping the throat (with palm), tapping the doserless funnel on the SJ.

It's sorta embarrassing having to explain why such is necessary on huge motorized grinder whereas the manual dumping on the Pharos sorta makes
sense since it's a manual grinder.

[expy98]

It blows away the Vario. In fact, since it has the 68mm burrs and no heat from the motor, I'd argue it is proabably the best grinder "tastewise" ....at any price. On the down side, it is also probably the most inconvenient grinder ever made....at any price.

and not too long ago:

Vario is no "achilles heel". Your coffee and technique will have a MUCH bigger impact than any grinder upgrade ever will.

quite a transformation Endo!!! :-)

Glad to see that your (grinder) world is no longer flat.

[JohnB]

on the other hand, I don't think the Pharos is any worse than the repetitive pulsing the motor, brushing the chute, pumping the throat (with palm), tapping the doserless funnel on the SJ.

It's sorta embarrassing having to explain why such is necessary on huge motorized grinder whereas the manual dumping on the Pharos sorta makes
sense since it's a manual grinder.

I will agree that the doserless funnels on the Mazzers are static magnets which is why I prefer dosers but let's be serious. You can't really compare flicking a little acid brush back & forth a few times with banging that big Pharos on the counter. I do own a Zass manual grinder & the grounds fall into a nice drawer which is easily pulled out. All very civilized. Unfortunately it sucks as an espresso grinder. Never pumped the throat with my palm, not necessary on the K10. My Major pretty much blows everything right out of the burr chamber so little brush work required there. The Pharos is a great idea but not much of a finished product.

[expy98]

can't comment on the Major as I've only used the SJ (4 different ones). Not only pumping the throat (try it w/ the SJ, you'd be amazed how much
comes out), but also acid brush the throat as well. Sure it's not necessary, just dose an extra gram or 2 and don't try to get every last bit of grind out and purge some new beans next day.

And it's not simply just the acid brush, the whole routine of manually pulsing the grinder and everything else associated w/ single dosing w/ a doserless SJ. I get it that the Pharos is not usable for you but for my use, compared to the SJ (not Major nor K10)...

I also own 2 Zass and they also retain a lot of ground and there's some banging associated w/ them as well, nothing really bothersome imo.

[Endo]

It blows away the Vario. In fact, since it has the 68mm burrs and no heat from the motor, I'd argue it is proabably the best grinder "tastewise" ....at any price. On the down side, it is also probably the most inconvenient grinder ever made....at any price.

and not too long ago:

Vario is no "achilles heel". Your coffee and technique will have a MUCH bigger impact than any grinder upgrade ever will.

quite a transformation Endo!!! :-)

Glad to see that your (grinder) world is no longer flat.

I must say my "honeymoon" with the Vario is pretty well over. I'm now on Vario #3, so that changed my opinion regarding durability.

Still, I still like the taste from the Vario and SJ for blends and milk drinks on the Vivaldi. Most people here fall into this category so I still stick with my comment that this level of grinder is fine for just about everyone. But when I got my lever machine and started exploring SOs, there is no doubt the 68mm conical is the way to go.

The Vario still is the most convenient and well matched grinder for the Vivaldi I have tried. It works great for pumping out milk drinks (which is where the Vivaldi excels as well). This is the main reason I haven't sold it yet. I sold my SJ, so without the Vario, I can't imagine using the Pharos as my daily grinder or for dinner parties.

I'm still considering the K-10, and I'm currently exploring a deal on one. If that happens, the Vario and Pharos will probably both go.

[JohnB]

I must say my "honeymoon" with the Vario is pretty well over. I'm now on Vario #3, so that changed my opinion regarding durability.

The Baratza warranty- the gift that keeps on giving! Hope the K10 deal works out, you've suffered enough.

[expy98]

The Vario still is the most convenient and well matched grinder for the Vivaldi I have tried.

hmm... 3 Varios and counting and still is the most convenient and well matched? Isn't that sorta like
saying "Fiat reliability"?

[JohnB]

Hey lets not be insulting Fiat now! They're back & building the best Chryslers in years. Meanwhile the Baratza grinders keep on breaking down.

[GDK]

I agree with Endo if we include the proviso "when/if it works" :)

It is like the four seasons with the Vario - only the cycle is unpredictable.