electronic timer auto DST

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zedex
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electronic timer auto DST

Post by zedex » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:00 pm

So. I had my timer set for daylight savings time and it did not work. So my machine was cold this morning. So i read the manual :grin: which in itself is strange. It says in the manual and i quote "The clock module automatically adjusts for daylight savings time,if selected. HOWEVER,this feature has not been changed for the new US DST dates. Consequently,it is best to leave this feature off. :grin: :roll: WTF? So basically this timer does not automatically adjust unless we go back in time. :drunken:

So, when were the old dates? and what are the new dates.and why wasn't i informed with lets say a news letter?

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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by txrpls » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:27 pm

I had the same problem. That timer is pretty much 1990 style technology and programming. Ridiculous price when you think about the cost of other electronics.

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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by Endo » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:42 pm

Thanks for the reminder! I was wondering why my shot was sour this morning (I usually give it a 1.5 hr warmup but end up with only 0.5hr I guess !)

Don't be too hard on the little timer. The clock in my 2009 technology car needed resetting this morning too!

(Though I got fooled by the dumb "up is down" arrows again during the clock change.....doh!)
Last edited by Endo on Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by GDK » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:43 pm

I got my timer a couple of months ago and it is still not programmed to NA DST as it did not change either. Europe will change in 2-3 weeks. It is a darn expensive timer for what it does and I DO expect this type of things to work properly.

On the "positive" side, clock is not that precise either, so changing time twice a year is an opportunity to sync the clock at the same time.

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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by zedex » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:35 pm

lol. The timer is pretty funny. :grin:
1) The up/down arrows are backwards. :shock:
2)The clock itself is very inaccurate,so inaccurate that i have a wind up mantle clock from the very early 1900s and it keeps better time. :shock:
3)The timer itself looks circa 1973 and is truly a retro timer.I am actually surprised thats its LCD,if it were old red LED technology i would smile.
4)When programming, there is no back button. :-P
5)The timer was only $200. :cry: That kind of technology needs a higher price tag IMO.
6)Timer does not automatically set to DST although it says it does but then reverts back and says you should not use it because it doesn't work. :lol:
Thats the best part. :lol:
7)The timer is on a cord so you can hide it, which is a good thing to avoid embarrasment .
8) All in all, i am still happy with it. It turns the machine off and on when i am sleeping so its all good.

I Love this line in the manual. :grin: Friggin halarious.


"The clock module automatically adjusts for daylight savings time,if selected. HOWEVER,this feature has not been changed for the new US DST dates. Consequently,it is best to leave this feature off. :grin: "

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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by chas » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:02 am

Thanks, I wrote that line. Glad you liked it.

I am amazed that, given the number of years it's been, that the DST dates for the US haven't been updated. Of course the reason it's better to leave "Summer" mode off is that if you leave it on then you have to adjust the time due to DST four times a year instead of two. 1) Set it forward on the new earlier DST day 2) Set it back when it automatically jumps ahead on the old DST date. 3) Set it forward when it automatically jumps back on the old earlier ST date 4) Set it back on the new later ST date.

I wrote the manual based on my own experiences in using it. It's not an official LaSpaz document. So the recommendation to NOT use DST mode is mine. I think I had it for one year before they changed the DST dates!

No doubt they use the cheapest 32Khz clock crystals with the lowest tolerances and then don't attempt to trim them for better accuracy or compensate for temperature variations in the frequency. You may have noticed that, if you are using the automatic DST setting, each time you adjust the time it kicks DST mode off and you have to remember to turn it back on.

You can also see the European influence on the design in a number of areas since they call it Summer time rather than Daylight savings time, which is what they call it in Europe I am told. That's truly a misnomer since now DST starts in the winter and ends in late fall!
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by txrpls » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:22 pm

zedex wrote: 5)The timer was only $200. :cry: That kind of technology needs a higher price tag IMO.
You're being factious, right?
"The clock module automatically adjusts for daylight savings time,if selected. HOWEVER,this feature has not been changed for the new US DST dates. Consequently,it is best to leave this feature off. :grin: "
I missed that. RTFM

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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by Endo » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:11 pm

I just had a meeting with a company from Italy yesterday and they all showed up an hour late. Their excuse was they didn't have DST. Is this true?
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by chas » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:20 pm

According the the Internetm DST starts in Italy on 3/25 which is probably the original date for here, too.
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by txrpls » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:56 pm

Endo wrote:I just had a meeting with a company from Italy yesterday and they all showed up an hour late. Their excuse was they didn't have DST. Is this true?
If any of them had iPhones that is BS. iPhone and most other phones automatically change time to the local zone. At least in the US.

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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by az erik » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:00 pm

txrpls wrote:
Endo wrote:I just had a meeting with a company from Italy yesterday and they all showed up an hour late. Their excuse was they didn't have DST. Is this true?
If any of them had iPhones that is BS. iPhone and most other phones automatically change time to the local zone. At least in the US.
This sadly isn't as true as you think. Every single year that the iPhone has been out 50+% of them don't flip DST correctly. Every year there is a update to fix that, released 5 days after everyone manually changes the time, and the following year it's negated by another software update that they forgot to test if DST still works. I'm a part time IOS developer/Mac admin I have fought with DST since I worked at AOL 15 years ago. :shock: That said, I might just figure out what wire does what and write my own clock. I'm sure there is something legally wrong with me doing that though.
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by txrpls » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:12 pm

az erik wrote:
txrpls wrote:
Endo wrote:I just had a meeting with a company from Italy yesterday and they all showed up an hour late. Their excuse was they didn't have DST. Is this true?
If any of them had iPhones that is BS. iPhone and most other phones automatically change time to the local zone. At least in the US.
This sadly isn't as true as you think. Every single year that the iPhone has been out 50+% of them don't flip DST correctly. Every year there is a update to fix that, released 5 days after everyone manually changes the time, and the following year it's negated by another software update that they forgot to test if DST still works. I'm a part time IOS developer/Mac admin I have fought with DST since I worked at AOL 15 years ago. :shock: That said, I might just figure out what wire does what and write my own clock. I'm sure there is something legally wrong with me doing that though.
While you're at it, how about a WiFI app to control the machine remotely? :lol:

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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by Endo » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:39 pm

I just saw the "iGrill" probe and app for the iPad. Got me thinking about making a "iBehmor" or even better, the "iS1" timer. :bounce:
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by az erik » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:26 pm

Actually I'm not messing around here anymore. Once I can get a pin out figured out expect and Iphone controller (iphone I pad etc) Tomer cost will most likely be about the same $200 and possibly no display to cut costs. USB direct to a laptop or wifi to phone etc. Possibly bluetooth, but I REALLY hate BTstacks so most likely we're going wifi so it's simple.

Anyone who has the timer is it seriously just 3 wires? I'm also looking for better pics than the one from CC as the internal pic is so tiny all I can make out is the batter, a IC and a Pent. If this thing is seriously 3 wires 1 wire is just a 'trigger' the rest is fluff and most likely not needed as 2 of the 3 wires provide power to the timer.
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by Endo » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:02 pm

I don't think the timer is as complicated as you think. Just 3 wires with one acting to hold the "on" button for the full 3 seconds (not just a quick trigger). That's all I believe.
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by chas » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:07 pm

Yes, three wires - power, ground, and signal. However, signal is not just a logic high or low to turn the machine on or off. I think it uses a serial protocol since there is another device intended for commercial use that can be plugged in instead of a timer. That device can record a number of different parameters that could only be communicated via a serial link.
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by Endo » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:48 pm

Chas,

Where do I get this "commercial device"? Whatever it does, it sounds like a fun gadget to play with! :smile:
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by az erik » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:15 pm

So signal is pulse or resistance. No problem there, Just need to measure it. I don't want to bother buying one in order to just get measurements off of it, but I don't want to wee-wee off my brand new machine too.
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by chas » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:38 pm

Endo, when I was creating the V2 Mini User's Guide (or are we calling it the V2 Tank now), Chris sent me a printed LaSpaziale V2 Mini Manual which is actually pretty good. It documents both optional clock and "counter" modules. The counter modules seems to have two basic functions 1) User sets the total number of doses that can be dispensed before the next machine service is due. You can actually have it stop functioning when the count down hits zero if you haven't serviced it and/or reset the count by then. It also has a display that shows both the number of 1 and 2 cup presses since that counter was last reset. It also displays the total number of 1 and 2 cup presses since the machine was first used and this value isn't resettable. Both reset options are PIN protected.

Both the counter and the timer appear to be the exact same hardware but with different programming. Of course it could be the exact same device including the programming as far as I know and there could be a jumper of some sort inside to change modes. That said, this manual is the only reference to it I have ever seen. I have never seen or heard of it being offered for sale.

The way this device works it seems like it might be targeted more at a market where a company rents or leases espresso machines. Said company might charge the renter according to how many shots were dispensed and.or ensure that it couldn't be used beyond a certain number of shots.
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by az erik » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:05 pm

I've been digging though the CC manual and it looks like they admit that JP3 (jumper 'plug' 3) on the controller board is a switch 'SD'. Should (I don't know as I'm not looking at it right now but should) be the 3 wire plug. If that's the case it's got to send and possibly receive a signal on that line. This might actually be even easier for me to so by hopping that line (which is either ground or hot) through my current X10 controller for 3 seconds. Doing this with a Fluke will be the easiest. Once I pin down the 'trigger' to turn on and off the machine the rest is bells and whistles.

Chas does that comercial unit hook to the same 3 pin connector in the machine? I wonder is that 3rd wire is a data link of sorts.
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by Endo » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:55 pm

chas wrote:... It documents both optional clock and "counter" modules.
Ahhh. I see. A shot counter would be useful for a commercial environment. Keeping track of number of drinks per hour, etc.
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Re: electronic timer auto DST

Post by chas » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:29 pm

az erik wrote:I've been digging though the CC manual and it looks like they admit that JP3 (jumper 'plug' 3) on the controller board is a switch 'SD'. Should (I don't know as I'm not looking at it right now but should) be the 3 wire plug. If that's the case it's got to send and possibly receive a signal on that line. This might actually be even easier for me to so by hopping that line (which is either ground or hot) through my current X10 controller for 3 seconds. Doing this with a Fluke will be the easiest. Once I pin down the 'trigger' to turn on and off the machine the rest is bells and whistles.

Chas does that comercial unit hook to the same 3 pin connector in the machine? I wonder is that 3rd wire is a data link of sorts.
JP3 is literally a two pin connector that used to have a jumper to select between clock and no clock on the original devices before they added a switch which is "SD". The connector for the clock module is a four pin connector labelled "Outside Display" in the drawings. One of those four pins might be a "No Connect". I don't remember. That connector is used for the clock or the counter module.
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