Tamp Pressure and Polish

[gene]

Must say my shots have improved since SLO gave me the great advice about lightening up the tamp to approx 15 pounds instead of 30.
Have been playing a lot with it lately. Tried no pressure, just the weight of the tamper. Even that has proved to be good. No channeling.
Past month or so have settled into a routine where I place the tamper on top of 16.2G and, with no pressure, just twist a half rev and back.

Is there anybody out here doing anything radically different?
Is the twisting action influencing anything? I know, I know, the answer is in the taste but I'm just curious. Thats how we learn.

In the above scenario the quest for approx 1 1/2oz in 35 seconds is much more evasive but that is only negative I can think of.
Comments?
Many Thanks!
g

[Endo]

Some people settle the grounds by thumping, nutating and then using a 30lb tamp. Others just grind , level and do a light tamp. Whatever works for you.

Intuatively, the fine grind /light tamp seems like it would work best. But if it channels, all bets are off. Do you use a bottomless PF?

[Louis]

Must say my shots have improved since SLO gave me the great advice about lightening up the tamp to approx 15 pounds instead of 30.
Have been playing a lot with it lately. Tried no pressure, just the weight of the tamper. Even that has proved to be good. No channeling.
Past month or so have settled into a routine where I place the tamper on top of 16.2G and, with no pressure, just twist a half rev and back.

Is there anybody out here doing anything radically different?
Is the twisting action influencing anything? I know, I know, the answer is in the taste but I'm just curious. Thats how we learn.

As far as I know (and it is also my experience), tamping pressure isn't important; what is important is that you remain consistent from shot to shot. I now use a calibrated tamper (Espro) and I'm getting consistency from it. I don't care what pressure it applies, as long is it is consistent. I do not twist while tamping.

As for polishing (turning the tamper with no pressure over the tamped grounds), it serves no purpose to me other preventing grounds to stick to the tamper, making a mess over time on my counter. Some may find a polished puck more aesthetic than a non polished one...

I also use nutating, but this isn't part of tamping, but rather a distribution method (WDT being another) (grind, distribute, tamp, extract).

[slo]

As far as I know (and it is also my experience), tamping pressure isn't important; what is important is that you remain consistent from shot to shot. I now use a calibrated tamper (Espro) and I'm getting consistency from it. I don't care what pressure it applies, as long is it is consistent. I do not twist while tamping.As for polishing (turning the tamper with no pressure over the tamped grounds), it serves no purpose to me other preventing grounds to stick to the tamper, making a mess over time on my counter. Some may find a polished puck more aesthetic than a non polished one... I also use nutating, but this isn't part of tamping, but rather a distribution method (WDT being another) (grind, distribute, tamp, extract).

I would have to disagree on a few points. It is my opinion and experience that tamp pressure does have an importance. Of course YMMV and you may disagree as well.
Given a perfect distribution, which somehow I never manage before the tamp (or after ) I would agree that tamp pressure and technique may not have an effect.
But a firm tamp applied to a very fine grind will result in a much more compact puck than a lighter pressure on the same grind. This may (depending on the actual pressure) result in a variation of flow rate. I have managed to "save" coffee that was ground too coarse or too fine by varying the tamp pressure.

Yes, Nutating, by vertu, of the application of pressure in an asymmetrical manner does contributes in correcting an imperfect distribution but it is tamping. Anyone is free to call it however they want.

I do agree on polishing. To me only serve in "cleaning" the tamper of grounds that would otherwise stick to it. And this is done with only the weight of the tamper itself. Twisting while applying a force is actually potentially harmful to the cohesion of the puck an could result in fractures that will result in channeling.

No revelation in my post, just giving a balancing position for readers to think about. Tamp pressure and it's usefulness, has been, is, and will be discussed by many and the jury is still out in terms of the final judgement.

[gene]

Hey guys thanks, this is what I was hoping for, different slants.

No, Endo, I do/don't have a bottomless. Two years ago a few weeks before the bottomless for the La Spaz was announced I foolishly bought a bottomless off this forum from a guy that was selling something modified for $65. It was terrible. Warped and had ground too much off. Had a local high school welding shop try to repair it and they ruined it.

Know I should spring for the real deal but, bitterly, have been resisting to this point. That would be a huge help.

Advise from SLO two years ago was best advice I have ever received re setting up La Spaz for optimum performance. Light tamp and importance of the grind dictating the result using the La Spaz.
I find that by posing elusive type questions that sometimes helps me to modify my technique. If all us owners lived in a tight-knit community wouldn't need to be such a pest with questions.

But is so rewarding to receive replies from a diverse audience. I look for disagreements posed by some of you. Its good to try different opinions even if some sound ridiculous on the surface.
Endo does have me thinking again about bottomless. Would love to see the shot forming and be able to assess foam or tiger striping patterns. Talk about "subjective" at the moment. I have no idea....feel like this is the next great unexplored frontier in pursuit of the God Shot.
Thanks again and keep it coming!

[Endo]

Bottomless is definitely a "must have" IMO.

In fact, if it makes you feel any better, I just bought a beautiful new Olympia portfilter for a crazy $156 (no basket, handle or spout even), and cut the bottom out. I wouldn't try this with the local high school shop!