Vario and Vivaldi

jbb · Post by **jbb** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:26 pm

Endo wrote: Personally, I'd get this 3 group Synesso for $7000. Way cooler.

Very cool. And compact. And cheap to run. What's not to like? Now, if could just dissect it into three one group Synesso's (Synessi?)....

Does the Speedster have an internal or external pump?

Post by **Endo** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:51 pm

jbb wrote:Very cool. And compact. And cheap to run. What's not to like? Now, if could just dissect it into three one group Synesso's (Synessi?)....

Does the Speedster have an internal or external pump?

A 3 group Synesso is not too practical, but boy, it would be so cool if your kitchen had the space. Kinda like owning an F1 car at the price of a BMW.

The speedster has an external pump and motor, like the synesso.

Post by **JohnB** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:58 pm

Endo wrote:$7500 USD and a 6 month waiting period.

Personally, I'd get this 3 group Synesso for $7000. Way cooler.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Synesso-Espresso-Ma ... 230f22ad7a

Nasi, Kee's dealer in N.C. usually has at least one in stock & I believe his price is a little lower then that. The Synesso is a nice machine but not much to look at IMO.

Post by **JohnB** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:42 pm

I just heard that Nasi does have a new Speedster in stock that he'd like to move. $7000 + sh from N.C. I believe this one has the black bodywork but you'd have to check with him to be sure. Come on Endo you know you want it!!

nasi"at"coffeeshopsolutions.com

jbb · Post by **jbb** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:43 pm

Yeah, go for it! If your wife lets you get away with slicing up her cutting board like you did for the DIY scace you should be able to get away with anything.

Post by **Endo** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:41 pm

Do my kids really need an education? After all, they could just be Baristas. No?

Nope. I'll have to wait for retirement before I entertain buying one of these. I already consider myself lucky I didn't get kicked out of the house after spending $2K on the S1 and $1K on grinders.

As sexy as this machine is, I must say, the S1 is VERY capable machine.

Post by **JohnB** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:48 pm

Endo wrote:Do my kids really need an education? After all, they could just be Baristas. No?.

I wonder how many current Baristas have parents that spent a small fortune on their education??

Buy the Speedster & a nice dog, then give your kids the student loan paperwork.

Post by **txrpls** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:27 am

Man I would love to have one, but I would have to find a dog house with power if I start drilling in the counter top. It looks like a GS3 will be my next machine.

Post by **Endo** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:33 am

txrpls wrote:Man I would love to have one, but I would have to find a dog house with power.....

Reminds me of this video..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twivg7GkYts

Except replace the work "dual bag" with "dual boiler".

Post by **txrpls** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:39 am

That's hilarious! I've never seen it before. That is definitely where I would be. My big search now if for a WBC type grinder the size of a Vario. I liked my old mini much better, but the wife doesn't want it back in the kitchen.

Post by **JohnB** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:59 am

txrpls wrote:Man I would love to have one, but I would have to find a dog house with power if I start drilling in the counter top. It looks like a GS3 will be my next machine.

I'd read all the past & sadly, current GS3 threads on H-B before settling for one. Why not set up a coffee bar in a different room? Dining room? Man cave?

Post by **txrpls** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:21 pm

JohnB wrote:
txrpls wrote:Man I would love to have one, but I would have to find a dog house with power if I start drilling in the counter top. It looks like a GS3 will be my next machine.
I'd read all the past & sadly, current GS3 threads on H-B before settling for one. Why not set up a coffee bar in a different room? Dining room? Man cave?

I already have the man cave/office and there is no plumbing. We are planning on selling both our houses and building something in the Texas Hill Country; when that happens I will definitely have a plumbed in machine running on 220.

Post by **Endo** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:03 pm

If you own two houses (and aren't divorced), go for the new 1 group, pressure profiling Synesso.

BrewHaHa · Post by **BrewHaHa** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:59 am

JohnB wrote:Why not set up a coffee bar in a different room? Dining room? Man cave?

Truely! Our kitchen is small anyway, so our Vivaldi is on a counter in the laundry room. In the basement. No big deal; it's not like you're spending an hour making a meal. You go down, make the 'spros, and come back up to enjoy the goods. Not only is it nice to have my coffee gear spread out in "my space", and not worrying about cluttering up the kitchen, but having gone from a fill 'er up machine to plumbed in, I'd much rather endure the "inconvenience" of going to another room to make the coffee than deal with topping up the tank.

Post by **Endo** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:01 pm

JohnB wrote:Why not set up a coffee bar in a different room? Dining room? Man cave?

I understand everyone arranges their house differently, but personally, I'm just not interested in that at all. For me, the espresso machine is part of the kitchen experience. A dark garage, basement or laundry room? Personally, I would get depressed (sorry).

For me, espresso experience means getting up early in the morning, having the sun shining on me through bright windows, turning on the radio and acting like the family Barista.

On weekends, I'm the neighbourhood roaster and with my restaurant blower, everyone nearby knows when I'm roasting! I can possibly see moving that outside to my backyard shed if I get a commerical roaster. But that would be mostly for smoke and safety reasons.

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:28 pm

Endo wrote:I understand everyone arranges their house differently, but personally, I'm just not interested in that at all. For me, the espresso machine is part of the kitchen experience. A dark garage, basement or laundry room? Personally, I would get depressed (sorry).

So would I but I wasn't thinking of any of those options. A corner of the dining room would be a nice choice. Future location of the Speedster is on a wet bar in our dining area with a small Cafe style table by the window that over looks our herb garden. Here I can sit & sip my espresso while planning the demise of any squirrels that are foolish enough to think that we buy bird seed for their benefit.

My current "in house" Man Cave has plenty of light coming in though full size windows, it's near the woodstove so it's toasty warm when I'm roasting in the winter time & there is ample room for the roasting table & Speedster coffee bar.

Post by **Endo** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:18 pm

JohnB wrote:My current "in house" Man Cave has plenty of light coming in though full size windows, it's near the woodstove so it's toasty warm when I'm roasting in the winter time & there is ample room for the roasting table & Speedster coffee bar.

Sounds nice. And that's what I would do as well, if I owned a machine as nice as a Kees or Synesso. It deserves it's own dedicated room (shrine). I might even make a place for my ashes. (Maybe in a gold plated Mazzer doser)

But at the $2000 level, it's just another kitchen appliance in my mind (although a very expensive one).

jbb · Post by **jbb** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:46 pm

i kind of like the industrial don't mess with me grunge/blue collar look of the synesso's i've seen. plus, for what ever reason most (but fortunately not all

)of the really memorable shots i've had have come off synessos. but i've never seen a Kees-designed machine in person. I wonder if any of the shops in the LA area have a Mistral?

JohnB wrote: My current "in house" Man Cave ..... it's near the woodstove

I think by functional definition a Man Cave needs a fire pit of some kind. In some ways i miss living in a part of the world where a wood stove/fireplace is truly a useful part of the house rather than just architecture.

JohnB wrote: squirrels that are foolish enough to think that we buy bird seed for their benefit.

i suspect designing an espresso machine that has perfect thermal stability is much easier than designing a squirrel-proof bird feeder.

EDIT: I knew I meant to be coming to a point but forgot......we are working on renovating the espresso bar with new tops, cabinets, etc. The cabinets have been ordered (arrived actually) but have not yet fabricated the top. I've factored in machine, grinder (yes-a titan size grinder will fit thinking to the future), sink space, and was wondering if anybody has experience with a under top mount for a knock box/collection bin. Nice or PITA?

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:19 pm

Depends what you mean by "under top"? Both of my coffee bar areas have the knockbox built into a drawer so it's out of sight when the drawer is closed.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1241

Post by **Endo** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:17 am

How are folks liking their Varios these days?

For the last 6 months I've been alternating back and forth between the Mazzer SJ and Vario. I must say it's nice a nice extravigence having 2 hoppers full of beans to choose from in the morning.

I'm on my second Vario, and it seems to be holding up well (although I'm in constant fear of encountering my first inevitable rock).

Has anybody experienced a rock and can say how the Vario ceramic burrs held up? (or how much they cost to replace now that my warranty is over).

My latest roast is a Cuban Serrano blend I've been working on. No rocks, but with these lesser known green beans, you never know.

Post by **Louis** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:57 am

Endo wrote:I'm on my second Vario, and it seems to be holding up well (although I'm in constant fear of encountering my first inevitable rock). Has anybody experienced a rock and can say how the Vario ceramic burrs held up? (or how much they cost to replace now that my warranty is over).

From what I've read (http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/ba ... 13846.html), usually the rock won't damage the burrs themselves. The belt and pulley take the hit and need to be replaced, usually under warranty. Even out of warranty, the belt and pulley would probably cost a lot less than the burrs themselves.

BTW, does anyone knows the price of new burrs?...

jbb · Post by **jbb** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:00 pm

Endo wrote:How are folks liking their Varios these days?

For the last 6 months I've been alternating back and forth between the Mazzer SJ and Vario. I must say it's nice a nice extravigence having 2 hoppers full of beans to choose from in the morning.

I'm on my second Vario, and it seems to be holding up well (although I'm in constant fear of encountering my first inevitable rock). Has anybody experienced a rock and can say how the Vario ceramic burrs held up? (or how much they cost to replace now that my warranty is over).

My latest roast is a Cuban Serrano blend I've been working on. No rocks, but with these lesser known green beans, you never know.

Had mine going on 6 months and all seems well. It started getting a bit of static and clumping about a week ago. Removed the top burr carrier and cleaned it out well and the problem went away.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the burrs should last around 2000 lbs. But a quick visit to Baratza's website or Google doesn't obviously pull up the replacement burrs. Seems surprising.

Having had both for awhile now, how would you compare the performance in the cup for both grinders? I had a real nice shot of Jeff Pentel's Ethiopia Amaro Gayo this morning. About 8 days post roast, 93C, 73% brew ratio. Deep chocolate, sweet molasses, and a bit nutty, kind of what I get from Ecco but more chocolate.

Post by **Endo** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 pm

What's your other grinder? An SJ?

jbb · Post by **jbb** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:32 am

i was probably unclear. I WISH I had a SJ-well, maybe a K10 doserless. But right now for espresso i just have the Vario. I was wondering how you found the two in comparison, cup wise.

Post by **Endo** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:45 pm

The grind from the Vario seems more prone to channelling and spritzers. The pours also tend to wander from center more.

There is a slight cup difference as well (possibly related to the channelling). A very slight increase in sourness, and the body seems reduced.

I haven't heard anyone else describe these differences, so perhaps the deeper S1 basket accentuates the differences somehow.

jbb · Post by **jbb** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:36 am

Thanks. I do tend to get quite a few spritzers, but I'd put it down to my lack of pre-fusion.

slo · Post by **slo** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:25 am

Endo wrote:The grind from the Vario seems more prone to channelling and spritzers. The pours also tend to wander from center more.

I have to agree with that statement. This may have something to do with the 53 mm basket indeed.
And it is not me because, with the same coffee, same dose on the same day, the pour from the MXKR will not channel where the pour from the B-Vario might.

Endo wrote:There is a slight cup difference as well (possibly related to the channelling). A very slight increase in sourness, and the body seems reduced.

I also agree, that the B-Vario has a slight cut difference in taste (in my case from the Macap MXKR), but I do not think that it is the channeling that will explain this. But in my case the B-Vario taste more flat, balanced and very much more in mellow side of the taste scale. I actually think that for most coffees the body seems to be very slightly increased, but very little.

I am posting this for information only because the discussion was about SJ and B-Vario, But I saw an occasion to use the B-Vario to highlight informally the difference between the MXKR and the SJ as can be read in the differences perceived against a standard. It does seem confirm to a degree the evaluation done by Jim Schulman in the Titan grinder project http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/ti ... t4499.html.

Post by **JohnB** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:55 am

Endo wrote:$7500 USD and a 6 month waiting period.

$800 price increase goes into effect for the Speedster 8/1 so $8000+ soon. I call it resale value protection.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:48 am

Would you consider the manual Pharos instead of a Vario? Quite a different beast in terms of convenience, but possibly no compromise in the grind quality at $250 price point (with some labour involved

):

http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-PHAROS ... _3977.html

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:04 am

I'm hoping I will like my Pharos much more then I did my Vario. Missed Fed Ex Friday but hope to have my Pharos today. Once I get a chance to play with it I'll post a review of sorts in this section.

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:50 am

15-25 revolutions for a tablespoon! My aching arm. First mod, yank that crank and stick a motor on it!

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:50 pm

I already have a 68mm conical with a motor, this is my travel conical although I'm sure I'll use it at home also. If I really like it I'll sell off my doserless Major & use it on the Microcasa coffeebar. By the way Pharos #021 is finally here!

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:26 pm

I am anxiously waiting for your feedback :)

Post by **Endo** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:20 pm

Chas, I like the idea of the "Franken-Robur". I may just buy one of these Pharos and run it off my cordless drill.

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:29 pm

Make sure it has a 1/2" chuck.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:48 pm

John, I remember a tip someone posted about the Pharos on another forum, just in case: As you turn the handle, push down a little at the same time as otherwise you may get an inconsistent grind sizes.

Post by **JohnB** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:47 pm

GDK wrote:John, I remember a tip someone posted about the Pharos on another forum, just in case: As you turn the handle, push down a little at the same time as otherwise you may get an inconsistent grind sizes.

I just came back from dropping the Pharos off at UPS. 2 days of fighting with that "work in progress" was one too much. I did read that tip & all the others but no matter what I tried I never did get it to grind fine enough to get a decent pouring shot. Grinding with it set 3/8 of a turn out using an 18 gram dose turned into a gusher on the Speedster every time. When ever I tried a finer setting the adjustment would slip. I tried cleaning all parts, longer bar for more torque & everything else I could think of but it still slipped if adjusted finer then 3/8 of a turn up from zero (soft or hard). I'd like to think that this particular one was defective but there isn't a lot there to go wrong. Even without that issue I would never consider the Pharos as my only espresso grinder. After 5 days of banging it on the counter or smacking it with a hammer to get the grinds out, the pain from trying to hold on to the damn thing when grinding & all it's other little idiosyncrasies and you would become a tea drinker for life. One good thing about the experience is that I now realize what a little jewel my Zass Knee Mill is.

Post by **Endo** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:44 pm

That's too bad.

Many people (me included) have considered using expensive burrs to make a cheaper grinder, but it seems it never works out. There are several forces and clearances in play (not just burr geometry alone) and it seems this has a much bigger influence on grind quality than people realize.

Seems you have tried them all John.....is the Precisio next on your list? I'd be curious to hear how it does on the Speedster.

Oh....and as a side note (and to stay OT)....my Vario is broken once again.....DOH!!

Post by **JohnB** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:00 pm

I never tried it for brew grinding but I'm guessing the Pharos will do a very nice job. Those that have posted their "reviews" are pretty much all lever heads & seem to be happy although most have had some adjustment slipping issues at finer settings. As I said I'm hoping mine was just defective as I can't imagine what else I could have tried to get it to work properly. Even on it's best day the Pharos is what I would call a "hair shirt" coffee grinder. Definitely not for everyone or even most.

I did look at the Baratza site yesterday to see if there were any refurb Precisos but I think they will be hard to come by. I think for now my brew (siphon/pourover) travel grinder will be my Zass Mocha Knee Mill. If I decide to bring the Microcasa along when we head out in a few weeks on vacation I'll either bring the doserless Major or SJ to keep it company. Plenty of room in the back of the Touring but if I want to do tailgate espresso I need to pick up & install a 12v to 120v converter. I'll have to assess my wattage requirements & see what's out there.

Post by **JohnB** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:11 am

JohnB wrote: As I said I'm hoping mine was just defective as I can't imagine what else I could have tried to get it to work properly.

Looks like I was right although they wouldn't admit there was a problem last week. Maybe I wasn't the only one complaining??
http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/ow ... ml#p212955

Post by **JohnB** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:12 am

Endo wrote:Oh....and as a side note (and to stay OT)....my Vario is broken once again.....DOH!!

So what broke this time? Still under warranty or are you on your own?

Post by **Endo** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:12 pm

JohnB wrote:So what broke this time? Still under warranty or are you on your own?

They sent me a refurbished unit after my first one stripped the plastic gear (apparently from holding the PF too close)....geez

.

The new unit seems to work OK, but when I tried to use it for drip (for the first time), it wouldn't adjust coarse. Apparenty you need to excercise the macro lever every few weeks or it can get stuck in the espresso setting.

After I remove the top burr and pressed down the lower burr carrier manually, it developed a problem grind fine (for espresso). I'm at the 3 micro notches tighter than the zero mark (burrs just touching), and this barely gives me a 25 sec shot. I'm guessing the mechanism has some play and when loaded of beans, it grinds more coarse than indicated by the zero point when empty.

I'm pretty sure I can live with it by adjusting the zero point at 2 macro notches. I'm not so sure I can go back and forth from espresso to drip repeatibly. I may call Baratza to see it they'll giev me another one. My refubished unit has a 6 month warranty, but I think that may be almost over. I'll try anyway.

I'm not too happy, but at least I have my trusty SJ. It's never let me down yet!

Post by **txrpls** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:23 pm

Been using the Pro M for about 3 months now and overall I'm pretty happy. The wife even likes it better than the Vario. My only complaint is that I measure my dose by weight and sometimes there is one bean left behind that just won't seem to catch in the burrs without several tries. Overall pretty impressed.

Post by **JohnB** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:34 pm

JohnB wrote: If I decide to bring the Microcasa along when we head out in a few weeks on vacation I'll either bring the doserless Major or SJ to keep it company. Plenty of room in the back of the Touring but if I want to do tailgate espresso I need to pick up & install a 12v to 120v converter. I'll have to assess my wattage requirements & see what's out there.

Ran some amp & wattage tests on the Microcasa & Major today to see what the max draw was. Ended up ordering this inverter from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002AMPGE6

Post by **JohnB** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:00 am

Just to wrap up the Pharos saga I ended up cashing out as the search for a permanent fix for the adjustment slipping continues despite what you may read in the H-B thread. I may reconsider it at some point in the future once it gets fully sorted.

I'll be installing the new inverter this weekend & I'll post a pic of the Microcasa tailgate set up when I run some "live" tests.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:43 pm

I have been back and forth between options and I am now almost set on the Mini Mazzer E doserless. My restriction is the grinder height - should fit under the cabinets. The mini with a short bin is 16.5", barely but it will fit. Will have to be creative on how I load coffee as the clearance would be half inch.

The main reason for considering the Mini now is that latest models reportedly have the same bur set as the SJ - practically providing the same grind quality - though for double price of the Vario (pricey, relatively speaking).

Post by **JohnB** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:22 pm

Same size burr but down 100 watts on power compared to the SJ, not to mention the Mini E is $230 US more then a new SJ & twice the cost of a nice used SJ.Major. You could have a brand new Major for a few dollars more or get into a nice conical & run either one without a hopper single dosing. The Mini E is a relatively inexpensive electronic doserless grinder but nobody gets excited about the grind quality.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:54 am

Running w/o hopper is a possibility for me as I am into the habit of weighting single doses myself. Can you grind say 20g at a time with no hopper? Do you have to keep your hand on top while grinding to keep the beans inside?

Post by **JohnB** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:08 am

I grind up to 23g at a time & the K10 throat is narrower then most. You will want to use something to weigh down the beans in the throat to prevent popcorning. I use a Spice Island jar with some coins in it (total weight 175g) as it fits nicely in the throat. You can also install a glass or plastic tube into the throat or use one of the many different canning funnels as a mini hopper.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:35 pm

Question for current Vario owners. If you use the grinder for espresso only and calibrate the time for say a 15 gram dose for a given coffee type, what variation in weight can one expect as minor grind size adjustments are made for different coffee beans (all for espresso) if grind time remains constant? Thanks

jbb · Post by **jbb** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:26 am

GDK wrote:Question for current Vario owners. If you use the grinder for espresso only and calibrate the time for say a 15 gram dose for a given coffee type, what variation in weight can one expect as minor grind size adjustments are made for different coffee beans (all for espresso) if grind time remains constant? Thanks

I collected some data over the last couple of days. No claims that it is representative and of course YMMV.

The readings happened to fall over the one snafu I have with the Vario. Sometimes it seems that the fine adjustment mechanism stops being responsive. You can see this in the middle part of the data. When this happens I stop and give the grinder a good cleaning and all is well again.

Hope this is helpful.

: Vario grind.jpg (161.92 KiB) Viewed 96415 times

Post by **Endo** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:30 am

That's some good data!

I'll try and make a similar graph with my Vario and compare it with my Mazzer SJ.

But right now my Vario is not working....again.

It gets stuck when making grind adjustments (micro OR macro). Baratza support thinks it may be a gearbox alignment issue.

Post by **JohnB** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:39 am

Endo wrote:But right now my Vario is not working....again. It gets stuck when making grind adjustments (micro OR macro). Baratza support thinks it may be a gearbox alignment issue.

And what is their solution to that issue?

Post by **Endo** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:14 pm

JohnB wrote:And what is their solution to that issue?

They're sending me some instructions tonight. If you're interested, I can let you know.

Good thing I like tinkering with this stuff, otherwise, this little toy grinder would have been sold long ago.

jbb · Post by **jbb** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:44 pm

Endo wrote: I'll try and make a similar graph with my Vario and compare it with my Mazzer SJ.

If you do I would be interested to see it. I've liked your cremina web site by the way. now that you've gone lever are you in the LMWDP club?

Post by **Endo** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:00 pm

JohnB wrote:
Endo wrote:But right now my Vario is not working....again. It gets stuck when making grind adjustments (micro OR macro). Baratza support thinks it may be a gearbox alignment issue.
And what is their solution to that issue?

Bushing re-alignment. Should be fun!

jbb wrote: now that you've gone lever are you in the LMWDP club?

Had to "Google" that one.

As Woody Allan would say " I don't want to be part of a club that would have me as a member". Luckily HB banned me a while ago. So I guess I'm cool after all.

I must say I'm really loving the lever Cremina. At first, I only got the machine because I got an amazing deal. I only planned to play with it a bit (to see what the fuss was all about), then flip it for a profit. But the shots have turned out so much better than I expected (and with only a 10 minute warmup as well). When I switched to the 2011 steam wand, it was all over, the velvety microfoam and shots with brilliant clarity convinced me this was the machine for me.

Post by **expy98** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:27 pm

speaking of Cyncra...

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/bf ... 44442.html

Post by **Endo** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:00 pm

expy98 wrote:speaking of Cyncra...

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/bf ... 44442.html

That would be tempting if I lived on LA.

Then again, this machine would probably break my counter.

Ever since I started "downsizing" and getting back to the basics, my shots have been tasting better and these big machines have seemed much less attractive.

jbb · Post by **jbb** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:36 pm

Endo wrote:Bushing re-alignment. Should be fun!

for this job, If they send you a diagram of the adjustment mechanism, or if you end up with some pictures down inside there, I'd appreciate it if you would share them. I've been curious as to how baratza engineered it. thanks

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:00 pm

My Vario-W is giving me a very hard time these days - cannot grind coarse enough, cannot grind fine enough, you name it - all at the same time now.

Endo, I responded to a thread you started at CG as I am going through the exact same experiences:

http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espres ... ers/535005

The darn thing gives me such a fluffy grind when it works but it is such a little (and not that cheap) fussy creature.

Post by **Endo** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:22 pm

It happens most often if you don't exercise the levers much (if you always stay on espressso). The lower burr gets stuck in position. You can move it down manually by removing the hopper and pressing down the lower burr. Unfortunately, this is not a permanent solution.

The next step is usually to remove the lower burr and shaft and clean the area. This involves removing the belt. Not a complicated task, but some people might shy away from this if they're not too mechanically inclined.

If that doesn't fx it, then it probably means the bushings are out of alignment. Baratza Support is great. They should be able to help you with that.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:08 pm

Endo, I pulled this thing apart to its basic peaces and now know how it breathes ;)

The problem in my case was with the large plastic driver wheel. The hex shaft opening on the wheel had small imperfections which did not allow the lower burr carrier shaft to travel all the way down or move freely through the wheel. When trouble shooting stickiness, bushings are a suspect, though the large plastic wheel is in the equation as well.

I may have solved two problems with this - I can do full range grinding and stickiness is almost non existent. If I move to coarse grind with no beans, I just have to touch the lower bur and it drops down. This may change in time, will see. I also made sure the two brass bushings are very well aligned and put some lithium grease as well.

Post by **Endo** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:05 pm

GDK wrote: If I move to coarse grind with no beans, I just have to touch the lower bur and it drops down. This may change in time, will see.

Mine never went away. I had to return it for a new one.

I have not been very lucky with my Varios.

Luckily I have my trusty SJ always on stand-by. Unfortunately, my Gralab 451 timer on my SJ just stopped working this morning (not that I used it much though). Nothing seems to last like it used to!

Post by **JohnB** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:58 am

Endo wrote: Baratza Support is great. They should be able to help you with that.

They must run 3 shifts in that department with all the problems their grinders have. The Vario finally seems to be sorted but now we have the Preciso stripping gears & the Vario-W woes. Never hear much about Mazzer support.

Post by **Endo** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:28 am

JohnB wrote:
Endo wrote: Baratza Support is great. They should be able to help you with that.
They must run 3 shifts in that department with all the problems their grinders have. The Vario finally seems to be sorted but now we have the Preciso stripping gears & the Vario-W woes. Never hear much about Mazzer support.

The Baratza philosophy seems to be to contract out the repair work to their approved techs. If that doesn't take care of it, they'll likely send you a new one.

This wouldn't cut it in the commercial world obviously (where every lost minute means lost money), but the average home user seems pretty willing to sacrifice some reliability for the added dosing convenience and small size.

Personally though, I'm a Mazzer man.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:24 pm

I can see very well why, Endo. I just sent mail to Baratza support describing the problems and the fact I ruled out fault play on my side. I hope to get a replacement as it is not just one problem. I even threw a third problem - the logo at the bottom keeps coming off - it may sound ridiculous and minor but this darn thing is almost $600 piece of machinery - such things should not happen alone, let alone in combination with major issues. If they cannot address the problems and give me a refund, I will see what is the next thing that can fit under kitchen cabinets...

Post by **Endo** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:32 pm

GDK wrote: If they cannot address the problems and give me a refund, I will see what is the next thing that can fit under kitchen cabinets...

Having gone through what I did, I'd say in the long run it may be easier to simply move up the cabinets.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:20 am

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:54 am

You too can become a hopper chopper!

Post by **Endo** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:09 pm

Wasn't there a photo somewhere of a guy who cut a whole in the bottom of his cupboard to pass the hopper through?

Post by **JohnB** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:22 pm

Living in a 250 year old home I've built most counters, ect. What is considered a standard counter to cupboard clearance these days?

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:25 pm

I am not at home to measure but it is close to 17 3/4"

Post by **JohnB** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:17 pm

If you single dose & don't need to use a hopper; most, if not all of the titan grinders will fit in that space. My K10WBC (worlds's finest single dosing Titan conical) stands 16" tall without a hopper if you include the knurled locking knob, 15.75" otherwise. Slide the grinder forward when you need it & back under the cupboard when you are done. Of course if you need to use a roasted bean rapid aging device (hopper) then you are stuck with one of the unreliable plastic grinding devices like the Vario.

Post by **expy98** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:11 pm

or an OE Pharos for less than 1/2 the price and you can move your cabinets down at least 6"

Post by **Endo** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:55 pm

Considering how convenient a double boiler machine like the Vivaldi is, it seems like an extreme contradiction to have to go through the 5 minute OE Pharos grind prep ritual that I've seen on YouTube. (Just my 2 cents).

The ideal grinder for the Vivaldi still seems like the Vario.....if only it were more reliable.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:10 pm

Perhaps the Vario - Pharos combo is the way to go, use the Pharos when the Vario is being fixed ;)

Post by **JohnB** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:43 pm

GDK wrote:Perhaps the Vario - Pharos combo is the way to go, use the Pharos when the Vario is being fixed ;)

Sure & just think how good that Vario is going to look after a week or more of clenching/cranking/banging the Pharos to make your espresso!

Post by **expy98** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:03 pm

always a dissident in every thread... :-)

it takes 30 revs to grind a double (14-15g) so that part is really fast (15 secs?) .
Static cling is better/worse depending on the day or the coffee, sometimes it's really bad but
not sure why.

For the 2 shots each morning, I weigh an extra .5g per dose to easily dump out the desired amount
of grind (basket on scale) to account for static cling. If I need to make more than 2 shots, then I adjust accordingly, usually
don't need to add much later on. This process is as fast as pulsing and brushing the SJ imo.

It's probably a tad slower than say a SJ but only the grinding part which is only about 15 secs. IMO well worth the minor effort
considering the many benefits of a titan conical.

If I try to clean the grinder when I'm done, it's a lot of banging to get about 75% of it out (guessing by looking into the funnel)
but if I wait til the next morning when I actually need to grind again, the slightest tap will purge all the grind out easily. Static electricity is gone?

Not all is wasted, I save that grind that comes out in a small jar and use it every few weeks
when I do a chemical backflush to season the group again. Or give it to my favorite co-worker for consumption :-).

Not only have I sold my SJ (never ground again post-Pharos), I've bought another Pharos. I'm told by Doug/OE that I'm the first Twin Phari.

At half the price of an "unreliable plastic grinding device" and 1/6 the price of a same-burrs K10, I like it!!!

Post by **JohnB** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:16 pm

expy98 wrote:always a dissident in every thread... :-)
At half the price of an "unreliable plastic grinding device" and 1/6 the price of a same-burrs K10, I like it!!!

I'm happy that you are happy but I owned a Pharos & hated it. They have improved the design since I bought mine or should I say the design was improved for them?? but it is still nothing I'd want to use every day. If you can grind a dose with the Pharos as fast as you could with your SJ there was something wrong with the SJ. As for the K10 it's worth much more then 6 times the cost of the Pharos everytime I dump in a dose & step on the foot switch but I only paid 4 times as much for mine.

Post by **Endo** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:22 pm

At the $250 price, I may be willing to give the Pharos a try. After all, it does look like a fun coffee gadget (and I do like gadgets).

I have a few hand grinders now, but they are mostly for decoration. The Pharos has a much lower WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor), so it might not make it to the actual kitchen counter. Perhaps I could pass it off as a manual juicer?

Post by **expy98** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:08 pm

I agree, manual grinding isn't for everybody, nor nearly $1500 for a grinder.

Endo, at the cost of shipping, you can borrow one before you buy.

what WAF? just put it away after use. Try that w/ one that's 35 lbs with an umbilical cord :-).

Post by **Endo** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:37 pm

I'm up to Vario #4.

This one looks promising though. A few subtle changes like micro and macro numbering. They also renamed the 3 dose buttons to simply 1,2 3. Another cool feature is they added a very nifty upper burr removal tool (see photo below). Nice!

But by far, the biggest improvement is the new gearbox. My last 2 Varios would not adjust to a coarser grind. I assume this was because the downward grinding force was insufficient to push the lower burr down on some grinders with slightly misaligned shaft bushings (just a guess). My bet is the new gearbox now physically pulls the lower burr down when adjusting more coarse. I would also bet they improved the tolerancing on bushing alignment.

Understanding these changes, I didn't expect the HUGE difference in taste. Just incredible! I can only assume the issues I had on my old Vario also affected burr alignment and therfore grind consistancy. With this new Vario I have almost zero channeling and the shots are therfore MUCH more evenly extracted. The bottomless pours now look perfectly symmetric and the taste is much more full, viscous and developed. I LIKE IT !!

If long term testing shows it stays this way, the Vario will be back on my "highly recommended grinders" list.

: Old and New Vario; IMG_0334.jpg (93.6 KiB) Viewed 92825 times

Post by **JohnB** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:48 pm

Hope they've finally debugged the design. A friend just bought one as his first real grinder. He bought it from CCS so I hope he got the latest version. I'll have to ask if his came with the burr tool. From what I've read they tightened up the tolerances so much you can't get the burr out without a tool. Good luck! You deserve it after putting up with the 3 previous Varios.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:38 pm

Good to hear Endo! The levers numbering is exactly how they do it on the W version. Funny, I just noticed the burr removal tool being on sale at Orphan Espresso for $10. I cleaned my W today and had hard time removing the burr - it is very snug in there. After a year with the W, I just noticed that the lower burr still moves easily down when moving the macro down, though is does require a slight tap.

If you ever peak under the hood, let us know if you notice design changes - I am now curious. Anyway, I hope your latest Vario performs well for a long time.

Any change in your strategy - I know you prepaid the HG 1 and were selling the Pharos...