Spouse spoils play

[chrisd]

It was all going so well. I'd settled on the idea of a plumbed S1, even figured out a way to fit it into the new flat. All that was left was gleefully explaining the plan to the-one-that-always-knows-best. My brilliant "extra table in the kitchen" idea didn't exactly go down well

"You really think the best place to put it is there?!"

I'm now reconsidering the S1 Mini, which would certainly be a whole lot more convenient (in terms of positioning possibilities, anyway, along with marital-harmony). But I (inevitably) have a couple questions for you guys...

1. Obviously the big difference is the vibe vs rotary pump, but how much of a difference would I see? Is the vibe pump considerably louder than the rotary I've tried to find comparison videos showing the two in action but haven't come across one where they're both being operated in the same clip, so it's hard to tell how much of a noise difference it will all make.

2. People still talk about the S1 Mini as being suitable for small-scale commercial use, so I'm guessing I won't touch the limits of its back-to-back pulling or steaming abilities. Still, are there any other usage shortcomings that Mini owners put up with?

3. Water still confuses me. Obviously when your S1 is plumbed in, you have in-line filtration/softening systems. Do people with the S1 Mini really just buy bottled water from the supermarket and rely on that? Seems like a guaranteed way to get expensive, quick.

Apologies for all the questions; I really thought I was nearing the "credit card moment" and now I'm a few steps back. I even found myself looking around for second-hand GS/3's (simply because of the dual tanked/plumbed flexibility; well, and because they're pretty lovely) thinking that I'd willingly spend a bit more, but the market for them is so small in the UK

Chris

[Endo]

If you want both reservoir and plumbed-in, why not get the Duetto 2 ?

The Mini vibe pump makes more noise than the rotary of course. That said, it's probably the quietest vibe pump machine available. It's only on for 25 seconds, so it makes no difference to me. If quiet is that important, you should consider a lever machine.

The Mini is not limiting. Trust me, you'll be the slowest link.

If your water is 5 grains hardness or less, you can just use tap water. If it's above 5 grains, you can either:

1. Descale your machine more frequently (once a year).
2. Use the supplied in-reservoir BestCup water softener ($20 each every 3 months).
3. Install a water softener system under your sink (route it to a small tap next to your standard sink tap).
4. Buy Reverse Osmosis (RO water) at the super market for about $4 for 5 gallons (mix it 50/50 with the tap water).

I switch between options 2 and 4. (For the last 9 months I've been running BestCup reservoir filters, but I'm on my last one now). I'll probably switch back to option 4 (50/50 RO) when the filters are all used up.

If I have time, I may try option 3 and install a water softener system under my sink this year (just for fun).

[chrisd]

I've looked at the Duetto 2, but - like most of the other machines on the market - I'm just don't like the retro looks. Part of the S1's appeal (and, indeed, that of the GS/3) is the fact that it doesn't ape old-fashioned machines.

Thanks for the feedback, Endo. I already guessed that I would be the biggest shortcoming in the espresso process, but it's nice to have it confirmed!

I still need to test the water, but according to the supplier's own figures for the area it's very hard indeed: they say 275.5 ppm! I imagine an S1 fed on that would seize up within a couple of minutes; if I were lucky, I might get a single cup of coffee out of it before that happened! It does make me wonder whether the in-reservoir filter would be sufficient, too.

Because I'm renting, I can't install a new tap, and unfortunately RO water isn't commonly available in supermarkets in the UK, unlike in North America. I'm now wondering whether commercial water companies - the sort who deliver water bottles to businesses for their water-coolers - would be an option instead...

Chris

[peter]

This will sound sophomoric, but is there no way your significant other can be persuaded to let you have your way? Can she be made to understand how grateful you'd be if she would bend a little, just this once?

[txrpls]

Grab her by the throat and tell her how it is going to be. Be a man! :-)

[chrisd]

This will sound sophomoric, but is there no way your significant other can be persuaded to let you have your way? Can she be made to understand how grateful you'd be if she would bend a little, just this once?

Grab her by the throat and tell her how it is going to be. Be a man! :-)

Ha, well, not wishing to call txrpls' "relationship counselling" skills into question, but I'm not sure that would be the best approach!

tbh, it's made me rethink some of the prior assumptions I'd been making. I first saw - and lusted over - the S1 back in 2006, but couldn't afford one then; since that point, the Mini has come out, but I think I'd been looking at it as a "lesser" machine, a compromise perhaps, rather than seeing its own potential, simply because I was being loyal to my "first love"!

The more I think about it, though, the more a tanked machine makes sense for my living situation at the moment - and for the foreseeable future! London property prices mean I'm likely to be renting for a while.

In the end, though, I realised I was looking at GS/3 prices online and thinking "well, is it really that much of an extra step?" At that point, I'd definitely been immersing myself in coffee geekery too much! When I reminded myself that you could buy two S1's - a regular and a Mini - for less than the price of a single GS/3, it showed me just how crazy I'd been getting.

Still, there are people who might say that even looking at an S1 for home use is crazy. But I try not to talk to those people

Chris

[txrpls]

I went with the mini because no way my wife would let a hole be cut in here counter top. Great machine and I love it. Huge water reservoir. You can tell I have no balls.

[chrisd]

I went with the mini because no way my wife would let a hole be cut in here counter top. Great machine and I love it. Huge water reservoir. You can tell I have no balls.

No balls but great coffee

[oton]

If I could plumb in a machine I have bought the S1 rotary without doubt. In my opinion, the noise and rattle of the vibration pumps makes look high quality machine like a cheap consumer machine; well, perhaps not cheap, but the feeling is not as should be.

[chrisd]

If I could plumb in a machine I have bought the S1 rotary without doubt. In my opinion, the noise and rattle of the vibration pumps makes look high quality machine like a cheap consumer machine; well, perhaps not cheap, but the feeling is not as should be.

Ack, oton, you're killing me. I was just about settled on a Mini. How noisy/rattly is the Mini's pump?

Chris

[oton]

The vibration pump is well insulated with rubber pads, however this does not completely eliminate the vibration. I believe that on youtube, Endo have a video where you can see a cup on the drip tray moving due to the vibration... but this does not happen normally. When you put some cups on the top of the machine to keep them hot, the vibration always move the cups a little and they start to rattle. The noise is the tipical noise of a vibration pump... which lately I like it less and less.

Anyway all of this is very subjective, so YMMV. You can see and hear the pump on some youtube videos. Personally I love the videos where you can hear clearly how the coffee falls into the cup when a rotary pump is used.

[Endo]

Ack, oton, you're killing me. I was just about settled on a Mini. How noisy/rattly is the Mini's pump?

Chris

The Mini does not "rattle". My glasses never move. It just makes a nice vibe pump sound. I suppose you have one of those new "silent grinders" as well?

To each his own, but I think the whole noise issue is moot.

[oton]

"Nice vibe pump sound"?

The K30 makes less noise than the Mini; and only during 4 seconds.

Sorry for complicate your decision a little more, Chris; but It's what I think. Next machine will be rotary for sure.

[Endo]

Rotaries are overkill in the home. They are designed for constant use like in a commercial environment. In typical home use, they break down more often (more wearing parts) and are more expensive to repair.

But that doesn't discourage many from wanting them. They are the "Hummers" of the home coffee world. (Just try and tell the suburban soccer Dad his Hummer is impracticle and you'll get an earful of how "they need it"...for hunting....country...pulling a boat...blah, blah).

If quiet is your prime consideration, get a lever. You'll get better espresso too.

[chrisd]

Thanks for the feedback everybody, I really appreciate it. I guess it's normal for people with the same machine to have differing experiences of it; I was reading a GS/3 thread on a different forum the other day, and while you might expect those with a $6.5k machine to be universally overjoyed with it, there was a hugely heated debate about its merits and shortcomings.

In the end, I think I'm probably going to go for the Mini, primarily because of the convenience. Maybe I'll regret that in a year's time, but then I either chalk it up to living and learning, or sell it and buy something else. The only thing worse than regret is crippling indecision!

Chris

[JonF]

I went years with vibratory pump machines, and never quite understood the objection. I mean, some grinders are loud enough to raise the dead, the "thwack" of the doser is loud, so what's the problem with a little noise for 27 seconds or so . . .

[oton]

Rotaries are overkill in the home. They are designed for constant use like in a commercial environment. In typical home use, they break down more often (more wearing parts) and are more expensive to repair.

Take a look at what you have in your kitchen to make coffee... a $2000 machine, a $700 grinder... jugs, tamper, accesories... a Vario grinder... more than $3000 to make some coffee... so what's overkilling?

The only reason of why you (and all) don't have a rotary machine is because LaSpaz don't make it wth reservoir like other brands. Who don't want a machine with the possibility of plumb in or reservoir like a Duetto, a Brewtus or a GS3?

[Endo]

My bet would be the Vivaldi 3 (due out in about 2 to 3 years) will have a rotary pump, reservoir and plumbed-in option. So if quiet is your thing, maybe the best thing is simply to wait.

[chrisd]

I'm not obsessed with quiet - just didn't want something that sounded like a jackhammer in my kitchen!

My "day job" is in computers/phones and so I know all too well that you could forever be waiting for The Next Big Thing and end up never buying anything today. While the Vivaldi 3 will likely be even better in terms of plumbing/tank/pump combination, that's two or three years longer than I feel like waiting

Chris

[Bitches_Brew]

Rotaries are overkill in the home.

i think rotaries are more convenient in the home because it's nice not having to fill up (or buy softeners) all the time. you also don't have to clean the reservoir.

In typical home use, they break down more often (more wearing parts) and are more expensive to repair.

so far my rotary has outlasted my previous ulka vibe, but your right, replacing one is not near as cheap. vibe pumps are basically made to be disposable. there are no rebuild kits.

i think your statement above could be applied to the machine in general. honestly, i've had more problems with the vivaldi (none pump related.... yet) in the first year of ownership than the 3 years i owned my silvia. ironically, the only problem i had with the silva was the pump going out.

If quiet is your prime consideration, get a lever. You'll get better espresso too.

i would love a lever, i just don't have the patients. they also require more maintenance.

i think my dream machine would be an auto-fill/rotary pump silva.

[Louis]

My bet would be the Vivaldi 3 (due out in about 2 to 3 years) will have a rotary pump, reservoir and plumbed-in option. So if quiet is your thing, maybe the best thing is simply to wait.

Endo, where did you get the info on a Vivaldi 3?

[Endo]

Endo, where did you get the info on a Vivaldi 3?

Only rumours. Nothing official.

[LJCoffeeGuy]

A new version is in planning. I spoke with a major player at SCAA. No rotary and tank, but perhaps a display like the S40 and a few other cool bells n whistles.

That's all I know...besides it will be a few years.

[Endo]

No rotary and tank.....

So I assume you are saying it will be a rotary/plumbed version? Is that right? With the Mini outselling the regular Vivaldi these days, I'd be very surprised if they didn't also roll out a reservoir version too.... but perhaps a year later, like last time.

My guess is it will be a lot like the current Vivaldi 2, but with a more modern LCD display and a PID controller on both boilers. Probably new plastic side panels too (with chrome metal accents).

I'd love to see PID controlled grouphead charge heating to eliminate warming shots (like the Bezerras), but that might too much to ask.