New No-Burn 4 hole Tip

[Endo]

Anybody tried this new no-burn 4-hole 0.9mm tip?

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... ourholetip

I bought Chas's old no-burn arm but the stock 2 hole tip is too powerful. This seems perfect. Now if I can just get Chris to ship it to me in Canada without a $40 shipping fee! $&*%^^#^$$&++

[slo]

Hello Endo!

Good catch! I am with you. Either we split the shipping or figure out something. Maybe CC would send by mail which is way cheaper.

Also I have a few more things to order soon anyway, when I do I'll had one tip for you if you want to want a few days.

[Endo]

Thanks Slo, but I contacted Chris and he says he can ship it to me in a padded envelope for about $5, so that's what I did.

[slo]

For that shipping price I will not wait. E-mail sent to CC

Thanks again Endo.

[Niko]

Well?!
How does it steam guys?
You probably don't have it yet.

...anyways please do post your findings so I can order a bunch of them for all my Vivaldis

[Endo]

Hey! I got the new 4 hole 0.9mm no-burn tip today.

I took it out of the Chris Coffee envelope and gave it a look. First thing you'll notice is it's massive and very well made. The holes look a bit smaller than the stock 4 hole tip. I'm guessing the stock tip holes are actually closer to 1mm. This tip was obviously made by a good machine shop since the holes are angled perfectly at 45deg down from horizontal, perfectly spaced and even counter-sunk at the exits!

So how does it steam you ask?

I installed in on my long S5 arm to give it a try before I opened up the machine to install the whole arm. As suspected with the smaller diameter (exact 0.9mm) holes, the steam is a bit slower. It seemed to take roughly an extra 5 seconds to steam 6 oz of milk (from about 20 to 25 seconds). For larger quantities of milk, this might not be so good, but for single Lattes in a 12 oz pitcher, it seems perfect! For the Mini Vivaldi, it seems ideally sized. It maintains a balanced steam pressure above 1 bar for as long as you like. The slower pace steaming makes a microfoam with less volume but very well suited for Latte art. (Sorry, I tasted my latte and destroyed the artwork....but it was a pretty good rosetta).

This tip must be a "god send" for Quickmill owners. For us Vivaldi owners, it's a "nice to have" if your into latte art, smaller milk volumes or just simply the whole "no-burn" setup. Also, if you're thinking of going no-burn, keep in mind the wand is very long (longer than the S5 even) and is therefore difficult to tuck away over the tray or point straight down into the pitcher.

New 4 hole no-burn tip on S5 wand

IMG_0716 (2).jpg (90.08 KiB) Viewed 42389 times

[Niko]

Damn it, Endo
You're gonna' make me get one too now...if I can find that No Burn arm this weekend - I know it's buried in a drawer somewhere.

[Endo]

At $15, it's worth trying. But be warned....it's rather slow.

[Niko]

Ah I get it....make the first shot of the day with it and then switch it back to the faster tip when I wake up.
No problem, will do

[Endo]

Here's photo of a Latte from this morning and a shot of the new tip holes. (Hand wasn't so steady from too many shots!) Still, you can see the much improved microfoam creaminess from the slower tip with less agressive mixing.

It's amazing how cool the steam is from this new tip! It seems the smaller holes and countersunk exit make for much better "atomized" steam (less big water droplets). It even sounds very different (silent). Very odd.

No-burn 2 hole, No-burn 4 hole, Stock 4 hole

IMG_0812 (640x469).jpg (49.19 KiB) Viewed 42353 times

Anyway, it means I needed to change my steaming technique quite a bit but think I have the "stretch and roll" dialed in now.

I'm still not sure sure if I prefer the faster old tip with poor Latte art foam or the slower new one with better foam. Time will tell I guess.

No burn tip Rosetta

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[Endo]

Here's a couple of photos showing the steam strength and angle.

New No-burn 4 Hole Tip

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Old 4 hole tip

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[chas]

Nice shots, Endo. That really makes the difference clear.

[Endo]

Well, one day with the no-burn wand and I've had it. Just WAY too long and a bad angle. It belongs on a Quickmill, not a Vivaldi !

I actually went back to the the original small wand and use just the new, slower 4 hole no-burn tip. It makes it about 1/4" longer and with the smaller 12oz pitcher I've been using, it seems to be working very well for steaming 6 oz of milk for single Lattes. Plus, it tucks away nicely so you can purge the cold water into the tray.

Never burned myself anyway, so why bother?

No-burn, too long, bad angle

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Stock wand with no burn tip

IMG_0824 (640x427).jpg (80.79 KiB) Viewed 42322 times

[Niko]

The new "No Burn, 4-Hole Tip" has a very similar steaming pattern like the old "3-Hole, Burn Your Ass-Off Tip". It seems like a really nice way to tame the savage beast for people doing very small quantities of milk. It throws the pattern in an outward fashion causing a nice whirlpool rather than a roll, it could be good and/or bad depending on one's style. I kind of liked the old 3-hole tip but it seems like just a memory now.
Have you tried steaming a 20oz'er yet, Endo? Just wondering if it takes about 45 seconds like on a QuickMill machine, not that it's a bad thing - just an observation.

[Endo]

Have you tried steaming a 20oz'er yet, Endo?

Yes, it takes a very long time for larger volumes. That's the trade-off. It's really a tip for those who like single caps or small Lattes.

For volumes above 10 oz, it feels like it's not even working. You really need to hunt around for a spot in the pitcher where you get good mixing. It produces a lot less foam volume (not a bad thing for Latte art).

I'm still on the fence whether I prefer this new slower tip or the old faster one. I did about 20 tests today using the Scott Rao dish soap practice technique. Still can't seem to find the "sweet spot" in the pitcher. It may be that "wider angle" you described.

I think it might be helpful for people coming off a 1 hole tip (like a Silvia), if they are having trouble getting used to the steam power of the Vivaldi. It might also work well with the new Espro Toroid pitcher. The wider angle seems to produce a natural vortex.

I may buy a second no-burn tip and try opening the holes very slightly. Doesn't take much it seems. I'll probably sell the no-burn wand (useless).

I kind of liked the old 3-hole tip but it seems like just a memory now.

I have 2 of the 3 hole tips. One came from La Spaziale (with my Mini), the other I got from Chas. The hole angle is totally different. (One is at least 20 degrees wider than the other). This is the tip I use for my 20 oz milk pitcher.

OK.....enough tip talk. Time for some espresso!

[Niko]

OK.....enough tip talk. Time for some espresso!

Heh heh....I just pulled a triple

[slo]

Yes, it takes a very long time for larger volumes. That's the trade-off. It's really a tip for those who like single caps or small Lattes.

Or for people that are more patient , or like to have more time to work it a bit....

That being said, just received mine and do not find that there is THAT much of a speed difference between the two hole versus 4 holes No-burn tips. It may be a little slower as Endo is saying but it is by a few seconds only. I find that it allows me to better control the temperature (my wife likes it on the lower end of the temperature window) and to work the vortex action.

I only used it with a 20 onces Toroid so far. The "sweet spot" is very large and the vortex is indeed very powerful thus I am getting more and evenly distributed micro-bubbles. The combination makes it much easier (for me) to micro foam. I never was very good before... and I can't say that I am very good now but it is better.

Also the wide spray angle lets me make a "controlled" thicker layer on to for the non-latte-art thick foam on top to sprinlke cinnamon and chocolate. There are custommer for that product...

Finally, the super vortex is very nice to make moccacino from powered chocolate (got customers for that too) in one easy action, mix, heat and foam in one process. I find it very hard to get decent foam with chocolate.

The only draw back, issue I found so far is that the wide spray angle makes it hard to clear the steam arm of accumulated condensation. I cannot just spray it down anymore... This is becasue I use the no-burn arm that does not tuck in directly... but unlike Endo, I am not letting that one go.


All in all, I like that tip a lot! I am leaving it on.

[JmanEspresso]

As to the no-burn ARM... I also hated it on the VII. I just sold it. Its too long, the angle is wierd. Endo is right, it belongs on a Quickmill/E-61.

Im actually considering putting the stock arm back on to try it out. Ive got the S5 arm on now, and it doesnt tuck away nicely. It tucks to one spot, and is in the way. This is of course, a matter of opinion.

To change the arm, all I need to do is screw one off, and screw the other on right.. I dont need to remove any panels? Or do I?

[slo]

Make sure that there is no steam in there! Sounds like a silly warning but...

To change the wand I believe that it is a screw off and screw on job. It is possible that the nut is positioned too close to the panel to allow removal without removing the side panel first. Mine currently is.

My no burn tucks in just fine but it gets in the way of the water dispenser. I wouldn't tuck it in even if it was shorter anyway.

One thing that I did is loosen the whole steam valve and wand assembly to position it the way that it felt the most comfortable to me.

In fact, I loosen everything because I had a significant dripping issue and I had to refinish the seat of the wand to valve attachment. When I tightened everything I made sure that the height and angles were optimised for the no-burn wand.

All I had to remove is the warm up tray, the steam knob and the left side panel.

Happy side panelling GRR%*@*"#!!*!2@"! Actually, every time I do it I tweak it such that it is a bit better but still... !!

[Niko]

As to the no-burn ARM... I also hated it on the VII. I just sold it. Its too long, the angle is wierd. Endo is right, it belongs on a Quickmill/E-61.

Agreed that the angle is pretty weird but it's not too long. I'm wondering if one can take a torch to it and slightly change that angle so it has a little more bend in it?
I would love a No Burn Arm that is modeled after the S5 Arm - same exact arm with the same exact tip.

[JohnB]

To change the arm, all I need to do is screw one off, and screw the other on right.. I dont need to remove any panels? Or do I?

There is no need to touch the large nut or remove any panels. Just slip a small wrench over the flat(8mm?) on the chrome tubing just below the big nut, grab the wand & unscrew it.

[chas]

AS John noted it's right where the red arrow points. Also as John mentionedm you don't need to remove the cover to do this. It was just easier to photograph with the cover off.

sarm.JPG (36.18 KiB) Viewed 42209 times

[Endo]

AS John noted it's right where the red arrow points. Also as John mentionedm you don't need to remove the cover to do this. It was just easier to photograph with the cover off.]

Yes, this is an easier method if you only want to remove the wand and not the entire wand and nut! But it is a bit more cramped. Makes you wonder why they sell the nut and ball-end with the wand

The wrench is a 9mm though.

Be careful not to round off the corners the first time since there is not much area on the flats and the threads are bound pretty tight with teflon tape.(You may want to remove the whole nut the first time to loosen it up and avoid scratching your new machine if the wrench slips).

[JohnB]

The wrench is a 9mm though.

Be careful not to round off the corners the first time since there is not much area on the flats and the threads are bound pretty tight with teflon tape.(You may want to remove the whole nut the first time to loosen it up and avoid scratching your new machine if the wrench slips).

If your wrench is that sloppy on the flat then it might be 8mm. My wrench was a tight fit & I had no problems.

[Endo]

I measured both my stock wand and my S5 wand with my digital caliper. Both were bang on 9.00 mm. (The Quickmill no-burn was a little under at 8.75mm).

Maybe you have an earlier model?

[JohnB]

I measured both my stock wand and my S5 wand with my digital caliper. Both were bang on 9.00 mm. (The Quickmill no-burn was a little under at 8.75mm).

Maybe you have an earlier model?

Yes, much newer, its called the Speedster! But really if it mics up at 9mm then maybe its time for a better quality wrench if it doesn't fit snuggly.

[Endo]

Can't afford a new wrench....saving up for a Speedster.

[BrewHaHa]

Can't afford a new wrench....saving up for a Speedster.

LOL!!!

[italyhound]

Seeing Endo's photos above, I am wondering if I have been using the wrong tip for all this time. My latte art remains fairly coarse.

Here are the two 4 hole tips I own. Notice that the smaller hole tip is not countersunk and that is what gave me an aha moment today. Do I own the old 1.2mm and newer 9mm tip but not the smaller 4 hole tip for the no burn arm? Is this correct??? If so, then I would excitedly be ordering the correct one right away as the smaller volumes I steam may really benefit from it.

Thanks for the help.

Evan

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[Endo]

Yes. It does look like one of your tips is the 1.2mm version. Way too powerful for small milk volumes for single drinks IMO, but good for big 20oz pitchers.

Funny enough, the smaller stock "0.9mm" tip you have is also often slightly bigger than 0.9mm as well.

The new, round "no-burn" 4 hole tip I showed above was designed by CC (for all the Quickmills as well) and it seems the local machinist who did this tip is a LOT more accurate than La Spaziale. The hole is exactly 0.9mm, counter-sunk, and wider at exactly 45deg, making for a less powerful but better controlled tip.

If you're goal is to do latte art in a small 12oz pitcher for single drinks, this is probably your best bet. It gives you more time to get the bubbles mixed into the milk properly, giving a thinner microfoam. The thinner foam marks the surface less, making for more precise art (such as thinner leafed rosettas) rather than the usual Vivaldi "apple blobs" most often seen in videos.

[italyhound]

I was working with the wrong tip this whole time. Better late than never. I received the new tip this week and have started dialing it in. I am very hopeful it will be the key to getting back to art form.

How long are you guys streching with it (shhp shhhp shhhp sound) before sinking the wand if at all?


Thanks

Evan

[Endo]

The new "no-burn" tip makes a lot less bubbles. I find I must stretch much longer than with the stock 4 hole tip. With the stock tip, I only stretch for about 3 seconds. With the no-burn, closer to 6.

You also need to be much more accurate with depth at the surface with the new tip. And the mixing is not as powerful, so it's easy to end up with a few surface bubbles that you will need to knock out later.

I often switch between the stock tip and the slower no-burn, using the stock tip about 80% of the time. I find the stock tip makes faster and better tasting foam (thicker and more creamy....or cafe like), while the slower tip is good for making flat whites and doing art (to impress guests).

[elguapodecarlos]

3 days ago I received my new no-burn steam arm and the 4-hole tip for the no-burn steam arm and I have used it for 3 days now. I am not satisfied with it as I have trouble getting good micro foam like the one I get with the burn-me steam arm. I think the reason is because of the big temperature difference between the outer (cool) wand and the inside hose that runs steam at 260F. So this results in condensation and you just can not get a good dried steam anymore no matter what I do. If anyone is interested in buying my no-burn steam arm and the 4-hole tip, please let me know and I will sell it at 1/2 price.

[JohnB]

Pretty typical of any No Burn wand. Buy a couple of rubber sleeves for the Burn Me wand.

[Lav]

The tip needs to be a no burn type as well - with a sealing o-ring to the hose. If not it will push steam backwards up the outside of the hose = wet steam no matter what....


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