Draining, without using the LS Kit

Tips and Tricks you have discovered with your S1, VII, Mini-VII, Dream, or Dream T that lets you do any aspect of coffee making, steaming, maintenance, etc better.
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JmanEspresso
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Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by JmanEspresso » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:06 pm

Hey guys,

I was thinking... I really want to have my VII drained, and clearly the LS Kit isn't the best solution.

So, aside from making up my own drain(which I might do), would there be any reason to not use the Vetrano Drain Kit?

Out of the three kits Chris sells, the Vetrano Kit, IMO, is the best way to drain something... In the sense that, its actually a drain fitting, and not a cup with a hose barb.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by JohnB » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:27 pm

Looks like a mighty small drain hole.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by slo » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:20 pm

Just as a heads up. here is a discussion on plumbing the Vivaldi.

http://www.s1cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=610

Of course my solution is the best. :grin:
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by JmanEspresso » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:38 am

It is a bit on the smaller side, but, how much water is there going to be at one time. Aside from testing it out, in normal use, its only a couple ounces at a time. . .


Although, I do like that setup, using the threaded side of a Watts/JG fitting. . . Clever.


Well, we'll see. Maybe this weekend, if I have time.

Anyone know how much a new drip tray costs, just in case? I assume its not very cheap, because, well, that would be much to easy :)
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by slo » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:21 pm

JmanEspresso wrote:It is a bit on the smaller side, but, how much water is there going to be at one time. Aside from testing it out, in normal use, its only a couple ounces at a time. . . Although, I do like that setup, using the threaded side of a Watts/JG fitting. . . Clever...
I have left the water outlet on continuous until the steam boiler gave no more and then even added the group and never even came close to filling the drip tray... 3/8 inch is plenty to drain that drip tray! No worry there.

For the new tray. No need to worry. You can always plug whatever hole somehow. It's hidden under and behind.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by JohnB » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:45 am

slo wrote:I have left the water outlet on continuous until the steam boiler gave no more and then even added the group and never even came close to filling the drip tray... 3/8 inch is plenty to drain that drip tray! No worry there.
The Vetrano kit is using 3/8" JG fittings & the 3/8 refers to the OD of the tubing/pipe that the JG will accept. The actual size (ID) of the drain hole is approx 7/32" which as I said is a pretty small drain hole. Factor in the grounds rinsed out of your p/f & there isn't going to be much flow. I'd go down to Lowes/H-D or your local plumbing outlet & put together something that would be much more effective & less prone to clogging.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by slo » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:02 pm

JohnB wrote: The Vetrano kit is using 3/8" JG fittings & the 3/8 refers to the OD of the tubing/pipe that the JG will accept. The actual size (ID) of the drain hole is approx 7/32" which as I said is a pretty small drain hole. Factor in the grounds rinsed out of your p/f & there isn't going to be much flow. I'd go down to Lowes/H-D or your local plumbing outlet & put together something that would be much more effective & less prone to clogging.
3/8" Outside diameter is what I have. I know that it doesn't sound big but really how fast do you need the drip tray to drain. As I said, I have tested the most abusive usage possible that I could think of and I rinse the basket in the tray and I leave these grinds to collect there for weeks and I haven't seen anything plugging up yet.

Everyone is free to select whatever size outlet tube they want, but I say that 3/8" OD, 7/32" ID is just fine.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by JohnB » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:40 pm

slo wrote: I leave these grinds to collect there for weeks and I haven't seen anything plugging up yet.
Considering how obsessive you are about cleaning the group I'm surprised you'd leave the grounds rotting in a wet drip tray for weeks. I dumped my tray twice a day just to get rid of the old grounds. By the way the Speedster drip tray drain is 1/2"id.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by slo » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:23 am

JohnB wrote: Considering how obsessive you are about cleaning the group I'm surprised you'd leave the grounds rotting in a wet drip tray for weeks. I dumped my tray twice a day just to get rid of the old grounds. By the way the Speedster drip tray drain is 1/2"id.
I wrote that I was experimenting with the detergent cleaning when I wrote it. I was experimenting the sacrificial 1st shot proposal by Ian Eales from Home Barista.

http://www.home-barista.com/tips/sink-t ... ml#p147411

Since then, I have adopted the "Ian sacrificial 1st shot" procedure with water backflush after each session and a detergent backflush once a week.

It is no obsessive, well maybe a bit, it is just that if I really pay attention, doing side by side with multiple repeats, I can taste a difference consistently. If I did not pay any attention to it, and Ian wouldn't have mentionned it I would have probably never noticed it. But that is the reason I participate in these forums, to improve.

Never smelled anything coming out of the tray. Between, the boiling water and the cleaning detergent going through, it seems to desinfect any smelly growth. My setup allows for easy rinsing of the tray but there is really nothing compelling me to do so.

I still say that the little tube is sufficient. Of course 1/2" would make the drip tray drain faster but it is not necessary on the Vivaldi. The speedster dip tray is a very particular design that does not accomodate a lot of water, thus the need to drain it quickly.

Man I love the Speester! :mrgreen: with envy.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by JmanEspresso » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:30 pm

After re-evaluating the drain ideas, Im not going with the Vetrano Drain.

I agree with both of you guys, in that, it probably is enough to drain it, and that it might get clogged up. I would like this mod to be setup so I DONT need to remove the drip tray very often. Once a month, on grinder cleaning day, would be the minimum I would want to remove it, with a joe-glo "wicked solution" dumped into the drip tray and swirled around with a grouphead brush every couple of days to loosen up gunk. When I had the syphon pump hooked up to Anita, this worked fine. But again, that syphon setup, while it worked fine, LOOKED hideous.

Im going to go with larger diameter tubing. . . 1/2OD tubing or bigger. Im going to go to this warehouse called N&S Supply, hopefully this weekend, if I have time, to see what is available.

I was thinking just a regular drain like you would find on a bra sink would work great, if a little overkill. the part which would sit IN the drip tray, will be sealed with "Marine GOOP", (a waterproof silicone sealant), and a drain cup will thread onto that, on the outside/bottom of the drip tray. That will allow for AMPLE draining, way more then I would need, as well as any sediment and gunk in the driptray. And, for cleaning, the bottom part, on the outside/bottom of the driptray, threads off, so the drip tray can be removed for cleaning. I measure the hole in the VII frame, so im going to hopefully go shopping this weekend and fine one which will fit. That, along with the raised up VII, will provide ample draining, I think.

Once I get the parts for the mod, Ill post pictures of the whole project.

My reason for re-thinking the drain, is because, I want to have something that not only works well, but also LOOK nice, and it well put together. On my Anita, I half-assed it. On the VII, I want to do it properly, even if that means it costs more, is more work, and cant be done this weekend. I think, in the end, Ill be happier with it.


I will keep you guys updated!
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by SwingT » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

JmanEspresso wrote: I really want to have my VII drained, and clearly the LS Kit isn't the best solution.....Any thoughts?
Well, yeah - the kit that Chris sells is probably the quickest, easiest solution and it allows ready removal of the tray.

Since the kit that Chris sells is working great for me, I have yet to understand why the interest in doing something that makes it hard to remove the drip tray.

Somehow, I think the installation procedure got off track, and of the pictures I've noticed - the holes drilled in the tray were not properly positioned - and I think this leads to problems. Or perhaps they didn't level the machine?

FWIW, I am using a 1/4" hole, seems to work fine unless you fill the tray more than half full. I have never had the tray fill to even 1/8 th full level in normal usage -

pics of how the drain hole is supposed to be located are here

http://www.s1cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1214
Neither Richard or I are having any problems with the kit that Chris sells. We are using a similar install procedure. Hard for me to understand how others are having problems unless they did not drill the hole in the correct place. This is really a pretty simple install.

If the kit is not readily available (in your country), or if you have an early S1 with no hole in the frame I can readily understand it - but other than that, it is hard for me to comprehend why people keep attempting to come up with solutions that do no allow for ready removal of the tray.

Hey, I just pull mine out, put my finger under the hole - and walk across the kitchen to dump.

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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by slo » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:25 pm

I think that for sure the "official" drip tray can be made to work well and is very convenient. The only reason I went for an alternate scheme is the cost. $60+ dollars (canadian price) for the kit is ridiculous.
Last edited by slo on Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by SwingT » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:26 pm

slo wrote:. $60+ dollars (canadian price) for the kit is ridiculous.
I can readily agree with that. Hell, if it cost $60 here in the US, I probably would attempt to find another solution, out of protest if no other reason.

The original poster to this thread was discussing buying the Vetrano kit, which is about the same as the S1 kit.

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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by MichaelN » Wed May 19, 2010 9:07 pm

slo wrote:I was experimenting the sacrificial 1st shot proposal by Ian Eales from Home Barista.
http://www.home-barista.com/tips/sink-t ... ml#p147411
I stumbled upon this quote when researching drain kit options. It really struck me as I have been noticing a huge difference between the 1st and 2nd shot of the morning, even after first pulling two blank, warm-up shots and making sure that the grinder was clean before using it. I have even started dumping the first few grams of coffee grounds coming out of the grinder assuming that may be part of the problem (even though I clean it out at the end of each day and never leave the beans in the hopper or grounds in the doser overnight).

Right now I'm using the coffee beans that guests bring over as "host" gifts (usually Starbucks) as the sacrificial grind and first pull to prime both the grinder and the S1 prior to pulling my first drinkable shot with freshly roasted coffee. It seems to be working well and at the same time saving my fresh beans. As a result I'm now very greatful for those host gifts as they are being put to a very good use.

When I pull the first "sink shot" in front of guests, I just tell them that it is a "sacrifice to the Espresso Gods" so that I don't have to bore them with the details. Once they get their coffee they usually reply with something like "your prayers have been answered" or "the gods found your sacrifice worthy".

It was interesting and rewarding at the same time to see others in this forum talking about the initial "sink shots" each day.

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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by slo » Thu May 20, 2010 7:41 am

It really makes a difference for me.

Since I have the MXKR it is a "no brainer" since I purge a good 5-7 grams of coffee out of the grinder every morning. This purge material goes in the sacrificial shot!

The second shot is always tastier.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by Endo » Thu May 20, 2010 9:32 am

slo wrote: Since I have the MXKR it is a "no brainer" since I purge a good 5-7 grams of coffee out of the grinder every morning. This purge material goes in the sacrificial shot!
I'm not so rich that I can throw half my imported gourmet coffee at $20 a bag down the drain. :shock:

There is not grinds retention in my Mazzer SJ once I sweep out the chute (I would never even consider buying a grinder that retained any grinds I couldn't sweep out). Still, I prefer 2nd or 3rd shots as well. I don't think there is any "magic" here. It's just a matter of warming up. The restricted shots simply run longer than a unrestricted water warming shot, making the shot a bit hotter. If you like shot #2, just raise your offset +1C. Or if you want to get fancy, just punch a small hole in a rubber backflush disc and pull a couple more shots through that before your 1st espresso shot.

I have found an easier solution. 1st shot is my wife's Latte drink (not as critical). The 2nd is my espresso.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by oton » Thu May 20, 2010 11:50 am

Uh? No purge with a little coffee? Just clean the chute?

I don't know about superjolly, but in the 3 grinders I know the problem is not the stale coffee of the chute, the problem is the stale coffee inside the burr chamber; and AFAIK the only solution is sacrifice some coffee. :-(
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by slo » Thu May 20, 2010 1:24 pm

Endo wrote:I'm not so rich that I can throw half my imported gourmet coffee at $20 a bag down the drain. :shock:
Believe me, I do not like wasting any coffee! And I am certainly not rich by any definition of the term!
Endo wrote:There is not grinds retention in my Mazzer SJ once I sweep out the chute (I would never even consider buying a grinder that retained any grinds I couldn't sweep out).
Endo! To use your usual style; this is a load of BS! Similar to your statement, that you see (and taste) no reason for chemical backflush more than once every 6 monthes! :shock:

Every grinder benefits from some level of sacrificial coffee purge. If you grind per dose, there is little coffee that remains (in any grinder) but still all the surfaces (burrs and chamber) will retain some ground and oil that can be wiped clean by a little purge. The following coffee WILL taste better!

If you keep beans in the hopper (as I do), there is a significant amount of coffee that remains in the grinding path (this varies with each grinder). Even if you thouroughly clean the chute. By the way, the chute of the MXKR is very large and very easy to clean but the grinding path is long as for most conical grinder! There is a significant amount of coffee retained that I need to clear out.
Endo wrote: Still, I prefer 2nd or 3rd shots as well. I don't think there is any "magic" here. It's just a matter of warming up. The restricted shots simply run longer than a unrestricted water warming shot, making the shot a bit hotter. If you like shot #2, just raise your offset +1C. Or if you want to get fancy, just punch a small hole in a rubber backflush disc and pull a couple more shots through that before your 1st espresso shot.
I disagree strongly with this statement. If you read the thread referenced above, you will read that many people have differing opinions on this subject and you are welcome to yours. But I have experimented this extensively over many days (sacrificial, no sacrificial, single dose sacrificial, double dose sacrificial, 4 grams sacrificial, old grounds sacrificial, "fresh" purged ground sacrificial,...) and found that indeed there is more than warning up the group head that is acting here.

My VII is always ON (24/7), I flush 3 double shots worth of water through the group head before every session and I do 1 sacrificial single "fresh" purged shot before the first session of the day. The First shot I drink taste better that way. YMMV.

Anyway, One has to keep the Espresso coffe God happy! :grin:

P.S.: Futhermore, my significant other, gets the 3rd shot of the day, always. The espresso God is not the only one that I have to keep happy!
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by Endo » Thu May 20, 2010 2:31 pm

No BS here. I think we are talking about 2 different grinding techniques:

I don't keep any beans in the hopper. I weigh my beans then dump them in the hopper. I then start my grinder and use the doser at the same time to eliminate any clumps and fill my PF. While the grinder is still running, I sweep out the chute. The air blowing out the chute and brush cleans everything out. If I re-weigh my grounds, I get the exact same number I started with.

Once a month I remove my Mazzer adjusting collar and remove the burrs to clean out any trapped grounds before they go stale. I usually don't find much. In any case, the very small amount trapped under the burrs fills back up on first grind and stays there. So it's not like anything stale is making its way to the cup.

What you are talking about is specific to your grinder and technique and is not a universal truth.
slo wrote: Endo! To use your usual style; this is a load of BS! Similar to your statement, that you see (and taste) no reason for chemical backflush more than once every 6 monthes! :shock:
Rant on:

I wish I had a dime for every coffee forum contibutor who claims to be able of taste 100pph water versus 150pph water or a 0.5 temperature change or a 2mm grinder burr diameter difference variation or a dirty 3 way valve. :roll: It's all too easy to make these claims online. I have to wonder though, where are these thousands of super tasters at the trade shows or when tasting events are held? Suddenly it seems people can't distinguish tea from coffee and every taste reference has to use the expression "chocolate bomb".

Rant off:
Endo

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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by slo » Thu May 20, 2010 3:21 pm

I understand that you grind with the single dose method. This is your choice for better or for worst.

But even then, there is still coffee ground that is left in the chamber. The more thourough about cleaning and sweeping the grinder, the less there will be. But I remain convinced that there is a certain amount of stale coffee that will come out when you put new coffee in the grinder.

Of course if you put the vacuum to the grinder after each session, like someone on this very forum, (and they say I am OCD :roll:) there will not be very much left.

If I were to single dose, I would still run thru a few grams in the morning to freshen up the grinder.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by Endo » Thu May 20, 2010 4:24 pm

Don't get me wrong, I partially agree with you here. It's just a matter of amount, and that really depends on your grinder and cleaning technique between doses.

And it's actually a fairly easy thing to prove for anyone who wants to try it on their grinder. Simply run some white colored Grindz through your grinder and sweep it out as you normally do with coffee. Then follow it up with some beans. How many white specs do you see in your grounds? You can post a picture if you like and I'll do the same (maybe in a different post so we don't get too OT).

I actually did this on a Vario and it was worse than my Mazzer sweeping method!

I don't see much white at all. I think I stand a better chance of influencing taste by throwing the first few grams over my left shoulder to please the espresso gods. ;-)
Endo

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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by JohnB » Thu May 20, 2010 10:00 pm

slo wrote: Of course if you put the vacuum to the grinder after each session, like someone on this very forum, (and they say I am OCD :roll:) there will not be very much left..
That isn't just a vacuum, that is a 6.5hp shop vac & believe me it will suck out the stray grounds. :shock:
When I grind with beans in the hopper I do a grounds purge(followed by the vac!) after an idle period. If it hasn't been too long I ask for Latte volunteers. :lol:
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by MichaelN » Thu May 20, 2010 10:36 pm

JohnB wrote:That isn't just a vacuum, that is a 6.5hp shop vac...
Now I have to add a shop vac to the list of gadgets required to complete my espresso bar. Hmmm, I wonder if they make one with a chrome finish that matches my Macap grinder? :bom:
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by chas » Fri May 21, 2010 11:00 am

Not sure if you need all that. I bought the cheapest Sears vacuum they had - a "real" one, not a cordless one. I use it exclusively to suck the grounds out of my grinder chute and to clean the chaff out of my Hottop. Works great.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by JohnB » Fri May 21, 2010 11:31 am

I agree, a 6.5hp/16 gallon shop vac is over kill for grinder maintenance/roaster cleaning but it's what I have & boy does it work!! My Speedster bar is next to my roasting "Lab" so the big vac isn't out of place at the moment but I am considering one of those 1.5hp units that could be mounted under the counter.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by JmanEspresso » Fri May 21, 2010 6:16 pm

Slo-

How you liking the MXK? A lot I hope!

Ive gone to single dosing instead of keeping a 1lb/12oz in the hopper. After a while, I found that I was either having to purge a good amount of coffee after a long idle(like the next day), or the first 3-4 shots would be tainted with bitter/staleness. If you only put enough coffee in the hopper for the session, that works.. but the grind setting changes as you get down to the end of the beans.

Personally, I found it too much of a pain to have to worry about the retained grinds.. so I tried single dosing. Like really gave it a chance, not like when I first got it and gave up on single dosing after only a short while. And once I got things dialed in, the results are just what I used to get with my Major. Im surprised, because she popcorns like crazy, but I put a little prep bowl on the throat, which dips into the throat and sits just above the burrs, which keeps the popcorning to a minimum. And my shots are consistent one after the other, and I missed being able to pull shots with 2 or 3 different coffees in one session. Most of all, after my sink shot with the blind filter to start things off, the shots are fresh, sweet and delicious from the 2nd to the last.

But.. thats for me.. So, as usual, YMMV.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by slo » Fri May 21, 2010 8:38 pm

Man! Is this thread straying off topic or what!

John and Chas, I have tried a small hand held cyclone type vacuum and the internal filter always got plugged with the coffee ground after only a few use. I think that a shop vac, a real vacuum or larger cyclone is the way to go if you want to vacuum out the grinder... I personally gave up. It was not pleasant anyway.

Michael, You may want to go that way (chrome being an option that you may search for while...) but as I wrote I found it unpleasant to vacuum out the grinder.

J-Man, I LOVE the MXKR!!! It has its issues (grind retention being one of them) but this grinder reconciled me with dosers! And this is not a small feat! I use the B-Vario whenever want decaf or to grind many different coffee in one session. do not feel like it is a big concession. And I blend my roast two of three time a week so I keep about 480g (4X120g) which is good for about 3 or 4 days in this house, in the hopper.

Just in a futile attempt to bring this back on topic.

The LS drain kit is just too overpriced!!! Search the site for alternate schemes that work, are easy and cost near nothing!!
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by oton » Fri May 21, 2010 8:51 pm

Endo wrote: And it's actually a fairly easy thing to prove for anyone who wants to try it on their grinder. Simply run some white colored Grindz through your grinder and sweep it out as you normally do with coffee. Then follow it up with some beans. How many white specs do you see in your grounds? You can post a picture if you like and I'll do the same (maybe in a different post so we don't get too OT).

I actually did this on a Vario and it was worse than my Mazzer sweeping method!

I don't see much white at all. I think I stand a better chance of influencing taste by throwing the first few grams over my left shoulder to please the espresso gods. ;-)
Mazzer Super Jolly Doser

1. Chute - 1.6g (grinds held in chute, removed by brush without any disassembly)
2. Loose - 2g (grinds left in the housing after removal of burrs and carriers- the mobile coffee)
3. Stuck - 2.3g (oils and crud removed from burrs and carrier, scraped off, non mobile)

http://www.toomuchcoffee.net/index.php? ... c&p=112974
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by Endo » Fri May 21, 2010 9:21 pm

How much of that actually makes it into your dose? 0.1g maybe? (That's what that Grindz test will tell you). Do you think you can taste 0.1g of 1 week older coffee in your shot? hmmmm. :roll:

I'd bet I have more cut-off chunks of horse hair from my sweeping brush in each shot than stale grinds. :lol:
Endo

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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by oton » Sat May 22, 2010 6:49 am

I don't understand. Why 0.1? Is 4.6 gr in the burr chamber and 1.6 in the chute.

I did some time ago the "grindz tezt". I got about 4 gr of grindz for the K30. I measured too the coffee retention in the chamber + chute; it was 5.5 gr. So 5gr. of coffee is what I usually use as sacrifice. :roll:

And no, I'm not rich and I not happy for waste coffee, but what can I do? Anyway 5gr is far better than my the Compak K3 which retains, if I remember well, about 13gr. :shock:
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by Endo » Sat May 22, 2010 8:02 am

oton wrote:I don't understand. Why 0.1? Is 4.6 gr in the burr chamber and 1.6 in the chute.
I don't know about the K30, but on my SJ the grounds that are retained in the burr chamber are compacted and stay there. Only the grounds in the chute are loose, and I sweep that out after each shot.

While I love the taste from some of the big Titan grinders and conicals I've tried at cafes, the large, loose grounds retention of most makes them better suited to this high volume environment. I would not consider one for my own home use.
Endo

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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by oton » Sat May 22, 2010 1:18 pm

The numbers I posted before are from the SJ.

1.6 gr. in the chute which are wasted because it must be removal or otherwise it ends in the cup.
2 gr. of non compacted coffee retained in the chamber which ends in the cup when new coffee is grinded.
2.3 gr of compacted coffee which possible part of this end in the cup when new coffee is grinded.

Well, at least is what I understand from that post! :|
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by MichaelN » Sat May 22, 2010 2:08 pm

I am still wavering on installing any drain kit. My S1 is about 18" from a sink and it only takes about 10 seconds to dump it out and to give it a quick rinse. Also, this morning I noticed an accumulation of water in the drip tray even though it was cleaned and completely wiped dry last night before going to bed. I leave the machine on 24/7 and just disable the steam boiler; but this is the first time that I noticed the water accumulation since I don't always wash and dry the drip tray. I'm sure that is addressed in another thread, so I'll search for that later. My point was simply that by not having the drain kit I was able to diagnose a potential problem with the machine, that otherwise would have gone down the drain without me noticing.

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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by MichaelN » Sat May 22, 2010 2:18 pm

JohnB wrote:I am considering one of those 1.5hp units that could be mounted under the counter.
That sounds like a great idea, to keep things neat and tidy. Unfortunately I only have a little bit of real estate left under the bar and I am currently reserving that for a compact cup washer. Therefore I may try one of those Dyson Cyclone handheld vacuums that are guaranteed to not clog up.

Michael
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by chas » Sat May 22, 2010 2:44 pm

MichaelN wrote: Also, this morning I noticed an accumulation of water in the drip tray even though it was cleaned and completely wiped dry last night before going to bed. I leave the machine on 24/7 and just disable the steam boiler; but this is the first time that I noticed the water accumulation since I don't always wash and dry the drip tray. I'm sure that is addressed in another thread, so I'll search for that later. My point was simply that by not having the drain kit I was able to diagnose a potential problem with the machine, that otherwise would have gone down the drain without me noticing.

Michael
Yes, if you search you should find a number of threads on the issue. It is normal. The expansion valve is set to start opening at 12 bar. When the coffee boiler comes on, the pressure can reach that point just about the time it cycles off resulting in a a couple drops each time. When the machine is warming up even more drips can occur. You should ensure that the expansion valve to properly adjusted to minimize the impact.
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by MichaelN » Sat May 22, 2010 3:11 pm

chas wrote:It is normal.... You should ensure that the expansion valve to properly adjusted to minimize the impact.
Thanks Chas; I will look into that as well as obtaining a pressure regulator. Since this is normal behavior then my previous argument is moot and therefore the drain kit is back on the agenda. I plan on poking around Home Depot and Lowes to see what is available locally for a make-shift kit.

Michael
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by JohnB » Sat May 22, 2010 3:50 pm

It is normal to a point. How much water was in the tray the morning after you wiped it dry?
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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by MichaelN » Sat May 22, 2010 6:18 pm

JohnB wrote:It is normal to a point. How much water was in the tray the morning after you wiped it dry?
It was about 1/4" deep, accumulating over about 10 hours or so. Part of the problem may be my household water pressure. It fluctuates with each cycle of the cistern pump, between 40 - 55 psi. I'll be looking into a pressure regulator very soon and will report back if that makes much of a difference.

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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by MichaelN » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:36 pm

My order from Chris' Coffee just arrived today with the Vetrano drain kit:
http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... tranodrain

The kit is designed for thin stainless steel drip trays, not the much thicker plastic drip tray in the S1. However, I am happy to report that with little modifications the kit works just fine. The only trick is to discard the rubber "O" ring gasket that ships with it. The thick plastic in the drip tray just barely allows enough threads from the top half of the drain kit to be exposed underneath in order to screw into the bottom half of the drain kit. With the gasket added to the sandwich, not enough threads are exposed below to screw the two pieces together. Without the gasket to make a seal, I simply added a small amount of black silicone to the top lip of the bottom piece then screwed everything together nice and snug. Not a single drip and the drain works exceptionally well. It drains the tray faster than the S1 can possibly fill it; yes I tried to overfill but couldn't.

For the other end of the hose, where it connects to the sink drain, I used this drain saddle from WaterAnywhere:
http://www.wateranywhere.com/Water_Filt ... 0b1508e8f5

It takes regular 3/8" plastic tubing which just so happens to have an outside diameter that is exactly the right size to slip snugly and firmly inside the 5/8" silicone tubing that comes with the Vetrano drain kit. It makes a perfect seal without any aid. Again, no leaks.

The entire project required less than 30 minutes to complete and cost only $39.95 plus taxes and shipping. I will include pictures in the near future.

Mike
La Spaziale S1V2 - Macap M4 Stepless w/doser
Upgraded from Breville Die-Cast 800ESXL & Breville Conical Burr Grinder

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Re: Draining, without using the LS Kit

Post by MichaelN » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:49 am

MichaelN wrote:I am still wavering on installing any drain kit.
I didn't think that draining the drip tray would provide much added value, especially since I had a bar sink less than an arm's reach away. I was wrong; now that I have my drain kit installed I am loving the extra convenience it provides.

Obviously there is some value when you are entertaining a large group of guests. Pulling shot after shot, being distracted in conversation, not having to worry about the tray overflowing and not having to take the time to empty it in the middle of a series of drinks is a slight advantage.

However, what surprised me was how much I appreciated the drain when just pulling a shot or two for myself. I like to keep my machine clean and I always tidy up after pulling my last shot of the morning. I can do so now more quickly as everything goes right down the drain and I don't have to worry about emptying the tray. I get to enjoy my last cup quicker as a result.

While the drip tray is now more cumbersome to remove there is no need to remove it for cleaning. It is very easy to keep clean in place; I simply use one of those dish-washing brushes with some dish soap in it. Every weekend I give the tray a few swipes with that brush while running water and it looks as good as new.

Michael
La Spaziale S1V2 - Macap M4 Stepless w/doser
Upgraded from Breville Die-Cast 800ESXL & Breville Conical Burr Grinder

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