Hello

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:29 pm

Hi,

Nice to see that there are owners here in Canada and a good community on s1cafe

. In researching for a La Spaz Mini Vivaldi II, I understand that there are 2 online retailers that carry them. Caffe TechH (chris coffee) and Espressoplanet. Is there a huge advantage of one over the other? My inquiry with Caffetech is that they will not price match espressoplanet (currently a 10% off promo) and for the 300 or so difference, I could put that towards a tamper/knockbox and coffee. Understanding that the Vivaldi is essentially bulletproof there shouldnt be any maint. or warrenty issues....I should be ok? Also, Caffe Tech calibrates the machine before leaving its store like chris coffee and espressoplanet does not. Is there a lot of calibration to be had on 'factory settings'? Doesnt La Spaz QC the unit before they leave the factory anyways?

Thanks for the help! :)

Post by **Endo** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:39 pm

Finally some capatilist competition in North America! (GO Canada!)

I've bought stuff from both places.

Where do you live in Canada?

How much do they want at each place (in CAN $)?

What warranty do they offer?

Have you asked if they will sell you a newer unit with the steam boiler drain valve?

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:19 pm

Go Flames Go!

Does that answer your question?

espresso planet 2370 - 10% = 2133
caffe tech = 2400

It would be slightly less at caffetech ~$50 if purchased with grinder. It would be 2941 as a package with a mazzer mini at espresso planet. Back and forth between a cymbali hybrid, mazzer mini and a mazzer mini e type 2

The mini e is out in front tho

Theres the standard warranty of 1 year but caffetech will extend that warrantee to 2 years at an addition cost of $100.

Hmm, didnt inquire about that but I had assumed it would be a 2009 model with the drain valve.

The guys at caffetech are extremly knowlegable in terms of unit operation...and have cooperation with locals here in terms of unit servicing if required. Support the local economy?

Post by **Endo** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:16 pm

Support the local economy? With all that Calgary oil? You should be buying from Ontario as an "equalization payment" !

Seriously though. I'd first get a guartantee the steam boiler has the new drain plug. These retailers don't have huge turn-over like CC, so they always get rid of the old stuff first.

Also, Joe at Caffe Tech was selling the Mini for $2199 a few months ago when the Canadian dollar was high (like it is now). He's quick to increase the price when the dollar is unfavourable, but slow to move it the other way. I can't see why he is unable to match EspressoPlanet.

Just show him the credit card and say....."Today I'll give $2150 to you or EspressoPlanet. You decide." If he says no, then walk.

I wouldn't worry about service too much. The people on this website seem to be able to advise on anything that can wrong. But don't kid yourself, the Vivaldi is a machine like any other, things can and do go wrong.

As far as grinders go, I would never get a Mazzer Mini E. It's a great grinder, but at $1100, it is WAY overpriced.

Get a used Mazzer SJ for $400 or the new Baratza Vario for $459 from the GreenBeanery. it's also a very clean and convenient grinder. It's actually cheaper than in the US and reports are that it will match (or even beat) the taste from the Mazzer Mini E. The styling matches the Vivaldi very well too. Have a look a this photo:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1144

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:44 pm

The economy is slooooooooow here....

I figure I can work on my barista skills and opewn up a shop

more and more people are investing on "Staycations"

I didnt realize the product fluctuate the price so much as I thought the CAD currency is pretty stable to the Euro (looks pretty much the same compared to last fall when I visited Italy)

That is a nice set up! The combo looks great. Yes the Mini E is expensive...I guess for 1200 I could get a laptop...too bad it couldnt grind coffee....unless i dropped it a few times on the beans

Yes all things mechanical/electrical will break down at some point. Just wondering about the ease of repairing something with one guy or the next.

Thanks for the advice Endo...

java man · Post by **java man** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:04 pm

For the cost of a Mazzer Mini E, I'd prefer a La Cimbali Max Hybrid, which is what I decided on. But it's suitable only for those who do NOT want to grind per shot, and for those who do not need to change the grind setting for drip, press, etc.

This grinder apparently does not reach its potential when there is only a handful of beans in the hopper. And it is a pain to change the grind setting more than the typical fine tuning between shots.

That suits me fine -- I typically dump a lb. of beans in the hopper and use it until it's gone; and I only drink drip etc. when away from home. It's on sale at Chris Coffee at the moment. Since I live close to the border, it is convenient for me to have it shipped to a package receiving service just across the line, and to pay the duties myself without having to pay UPS's outrageous customs brokerage charges.

Rick

Post by **Endo** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:24 pm

The Max Hybrid seems like a very nice grinder. I had a hard time deciding between the Max Hybrid and my Mazz SJ. I eventually went for the SJ simply for the single shot reasons you described and also for the lower price and more robust build (I assumed it would be the last grinder I would own).

I live 3 hours North of Chris Coffee. I usually pass by about one a year and pick up stuff. They are by far my favourite store. Just about anywhere else when you talk about a Scace or even a PID they just look at you blank. These are the only guys I would let touch my Vivaldi for service (assuming I can't do it myself). Tehy're super nice too. Even though I didn't buy my machine there, they are always helpful answering any questions I have.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:38 pm

Yes the Mazzer Mini e is quite expensive at 1225 and i think only chris coffees counterpart Caffe Tech carrys them.
I dont think ill vary the grind as everything is espresso for me

In saying that it may be good to establish a relationship with Caffetech....besides they have people here locally that could work on La Spaz...Although the 2.5 hour drive wouldnt be so bad. They also offered to pick up the charges for shipping if anything major needed to be replaced...

UPS and their brokerage charge are horrendous. I sometimes think they hold you hostage with whatever THEY decide to charge. No Pay...No package. Never encountered that with USPS or FedEx.

Post by **Endo** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:44 pm

Yes, I would do the same thing if I were you and buy from Caffe Tech.

I"ve bought some stuff from Joe at Caffe Tech before. I had no problems at all. I think it's a good idea to pay a little extra and get something that is both calibrated AND local. Shipping something fragile that weighs 62 lbs really sucks, and it's nice to be able to pick it up return it quickly if you have "day one" problems.

On the other hand, I can't seeing paying $1225 for a Mazzer E. That seems nuts.

if I were you I'd try and get a deal on a package from Caffe-Tech with the Vivaldi and a MacCap M4. That grinder is half the price ($595) and just as good taste wise. You should be able to get $100 off the package deal, I would think. If you still want to spend more on the grinder, then get the LaCImbali Max Hybrid for $995, That's still $250 cheaper than the Mini E, but I think most would consider it a much better grinder (conical and flat).

You could always try bargaining with John B over here. It seems he may have a couple of used SJs for sale soon at a fraction of the cost of a new Mazzer E.

java man · Post by **java man** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:35 pm

Look what just arrived . . . . it is one big, hulking beast compared to my MACAP M4.

My espresso machine is in transit so I made a fake cappa with the last of my frozen home roasted beans, a moka pot and microwaved milk. Gads, it is BETTER BETTER BETTER than that horrid Lavazza Gold brick coffee I've been enduring!!

Rick

java man · Post by **java man** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:21 pm

I have a data point for those interested in ordering from Espresso Planet in Mississauga. My order for a Mini was processed by them on May 27. I thought that was plenty of time to have it shipped before I move (June 11). That was 10 days ago . . .

Their website lists my order as "processed". I started getting worried that it would arrive at a vacant house, and so I phoned Espresso Planet to find out whether it has been shipped. The person responsible for processing the shipments didn't return my calls. I continued to call her, and I did manage to catch her at her desk. She said my order had not been shipped because I asked for the optional timer, and they had to wait for timers to arrive from their supplier (which would be Chris Coffee). On June 4 I emailed her with a new shipping address, knowing that it was too late to ensure delivery before I move. I requested a "read" receipt on the email I sent to her providing the new shipping address, but I haven't received a confirmation yet.

Espresso Planet may be a good supplier, but it looks as though they're not very good at communicating with customers when orders are held up.

Meanwhile, the Cimbali Max Hybrid I ordered on May 28 from Chris Coffee arrived at my parcel drop just across the US border on June 4. I have picked it up and it's sitting in my kitchen.

Rick

Post by **Endo** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:18 pm

Good to know.

I ordered some stuff from them and picked up some stuff too. No real problems. They seem to be on par with Caffe Tech. But I must say, Chris Coffee is in a whole other league in terms of customer support.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:57 pm

Thanks JavaMan thats good to know.

Did you find out if yours is a 2009 model? I figured they could tell from the stock they received from CC.

Its hard to beat with their 'Customer reward' program + 10% off. Thats a whole lot of accessories to be had....

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:04 am

java man wrote:For the cost of a Mazzer Mini E, I'd prefer a La Cimbali Max Hybrid, which is what I decided on. But it's suitable only for those who do NOT want to grind per shot, and for those who do not need to change the grind setting for drip, press, etc.

This grinder apparently does not reach its potential when there is only a handful of beans in the hopper. And it is a pain to change the grind setting more than the typical fine tuning between shots.

That suits me fine -- I typically dump a lb. of beans in the hopper and use it until it's gone; and I only drink drip etc. when away from home. It's on sale at Chris Coffee at the moment. Since I live close to the border, it is convenient for me to have it shipped to a package receiving service just across the line, and to pay the duties myself without having to pay UPS's outrageous customs brokerage charges.

Rick

Have you popped off the hopper to clean the burrs for the first time? That's when your disappointment will sink in. Here are the issues I have with it:

1) Can't easily remove the hopper while beans are still in it like you can with a Mazzer since the four screws are inside the hopper.
2) The grind dial has an internal round piece with a round "trough" that the bottom of the hopper sits in. However, the trough is wide and there is a lot of clearance with the hopper on all sides and the bottom. This area completely fills with stale beans.
3) There is a significant area between the top of the chassis and the top of the burr assembly that also fills with stale beans.

As a consequence of the above there are always about 1/8 cup of stale beans ready to constantly drop a few here and there into your freshly grinding beans. And there are a lot of parts to remove to get in and clean it. Not fun. This design really makes me appreciate my Mini-E.

java man · Post by **java man** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:06 pm

HeeBeeGB wrote:Thanks JavaMan thats good to know.

Did you find out if yours is a 2009 model? I figured they could tell from the stock they received from CC.

Its hard to beat with their 'Customer reward' program + 10% off. Thats a whole lot of accessories to be had....

15 days after I ordered, I received confirmation that my machine has been shipped. It's still in transit so I don't know yet whether it's old stock or the latest model. I'll post to let you know as soon as it is delivered.

Rick

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:38 pm

Well...I've ordered a bottomless PF and water filter....but no mini yet . I think Im doing something backwards

The fear of using a machine without a filer scares me as the water hardness around here is 11.5 grains per gallon on average (min 9.4 Max 13.4). This could take a beating on the filter given that its good to filter 100 g/gal. Is there a place in Canada for cheap filters? I saw a thread from the other S1 section regarding replacement in the US. I guess I could always do a mix of distilled vs tap water....

Post by **Dodger1** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:15 pm

I'm using a Brita 35530, which reduced my water from ~ 12 to ~ 2

http://www.amazon.com/Brita-35530-Ultra ... 77&sr=1-15

You can do a search and see what others have to say about the Brita

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 pm

Thanks dodger.

Do you know how much water you can filter before you need to replace the filter? I guess time will tell as you just got your machine
Based on the Brita web site it says 40 gallons before replacement.

Based on the local hardness of water, I can process only 8.7 gallons of water through the filter sold at CC.

I would take the Brita filter operating on the same principle. May have to 'SofChek' to determine Britas effectiveness...

Post by **Endo** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:10 pm

You might want to reconsider the Brita. They're designed to filter water of contaminants (like chlorine, sediment and zinc), not soften it (which means removing calcium and magnesium ions).

I've done some reading and lots of testing and I've never seen it reduce hardness by more than 2 or 3 grains. I'm pretty sure going from 12 to 2 is physically impossible. What are you using to measure hardness?

My water is 150 ppm (about 9 grains). I used to use the Bestcup water softener that LaSpaziale supplied, but when that got old and I couldn't find any new cartridges, I decided to move my kitchen water cooler over next to my Vivaldi and fill it with RO water. I found a source of Reverse Osmosis (RO) water from the local wine making store. The 20L platic jugs are refillable at only $3.50. I mix the reservoir with 2/3 RO and 1/3 tap water. This brings it down to about 50 ppm (3 grains). Tank lasts about a month before needing to refill.

Also, since it's right next the Vivaldi, it's the next best thing to being plumbed in. (Plus it matches my Vivaldi)

: Water Cooler with RO; water.jpg (38.56 KiB) Viewed 60377 times

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:42 pm

I havent actually measured the hardness yet...but Im using the municipal government information from our water treatment facility. It gives monthly readings for the past 2 years.
The gov't wouldnt lie to the public would they?

Once I have the unit set up, I can reconfirm with SofChek. Of course your formula for RO to tapwater sounds about right as this was recommended by Joe at CaffeTech (Very nice and knowledgable man by the way. He really knows his stuff)

Theres also this http://www.espressotec.com/store/pc/ic_ ... schart.asp for info across Canada.

Gee thats a cool looking water bottle Dispenser Endo.....It seems like everything here is plain boring white.

Yes the local grocery store has RO and distilled water for 5-6 bucks for a 18.9 litre bottle. Its just a matter finding another home for another appliance

Anyone try a Mahlkonig? I may be able to get my hands on one

...not too far off from the price of a a Mini e. Im all for the doserless and it appears that Macaps are outta stock till Mid July. It seems it maybe the best way to go...if my wife wants to pull shots the easiest way possible without getting too technically involved. Of course ill have the timer and grind calibrated for the bean.

Post by **Endo** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:14 pm

HeeBeeGB wrote: Anyone try a Mahlkonig? I may be able to get my hands on one ...not too far off from the price of a a Mini e. Im all for the doserless and it appears that Macaps are outta stock till Mid July. It seems it maybe the best way to go...if my wife wants to pull shots the easiest way possible without getting too technically involved. Of course ill have the timer and grind calibrated for the bean.

K30 is an awesome grinder. It's fast, quiet and of very high quality. A marvel of engineering. If you can get it for the price of the Mini E, that would be a great deal (and would probably give you high grinder bragging rights on this forum...until JohnB get his twin Mazzer Roburs).

One thing, to consider, it's a lot bigger than the Mini E. (Pictures are deceiving)

Post by **Dodger1** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:59 am

Endo wrote:You might want to reconsider the Brita. They're designed to filter water of contaminants (like chlorine, sediment and zinc), not soften it (which means removing calcium and magnesium ions).

I bought the Brita based on this guys recommendation, not that he knows anything

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... teststrips

I also ran across this post, which supports my findings:

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-ma ... ml#p117243

and this test is kind of interesting:
http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=307273

I'm using the PurTest hardness test strips that Chris sells, as well as the Sofchek test strips to test the water.

I don't know how long I can go before I need to replace the filter but I'm testing every Friday to establish a benchmark.

Post by **JohnB** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:48 am

Endo wrote:
K30 is an awesome grinder. It's fast, quiet and of very high quality. A marvel of engineering. If you can get it for the price of the Mini E, that would be a great deal (and would probably give you high grinder bragging rights on this forum...until JohnB get his twin Mazzer Roburs).

One thing, to consider, it's a lot bigger than the Mini E. (Pictures are deceiving)

Only if he buys two of them!! Richard has a K30 Vario & he likes it. Looks like a bear to take apart & clean though. I prefer the simplicity & easy maintenance of the big Mazzers but a K10WBC would be a nice companion piece. I could have daily Conical vs Flat Burr shootouts!!

K30 Refurbs: http://www.mahlkoenig.com/index.html?/m ... -k30es.htm

Post by **Endo** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:52 am

Dodger1, there are a lot of "half truths" in the links you provided, so it may be worth discussing more.

Here is what I can tell you for sure about the Brita:

Brita is a filter, but it does provide some softening as a secondary effect. The NSA does not recognise Brita as a softener. That is why you'll never see it advertised that way.

In the first few days, the Brita will typically reduce the hardness by 2/3. So if you started at 12 grains, you should assume you'll get 4 grains in the first week. The hardness reduction drops off quickly with the Brita and after 3 weeks, you can assume it will reduce hardness by only 1/3 (or 8 grains in your case).

Bottomline is: While it will reduce the hardness somewhat, it's short-lived and often inadequate to do the job.

Now the good news: Chris Coffee just started selling the LaSpaziale water softeners for the Mini. Wooohoooo!

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... ndsoftener

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:30 am

Thats what I understand as well with the Brita.....it may work initially but will be a steep curve of grain increase in the brita 'treated water' after a few uses. I guess dodger is also sofcheking it each friday for benchmarking purposes. So, dodger, please report your findings

For now I think my CC filter may suffice and bought a spare cartridge as well. And ill have to decide if its worth hauling water from the grocery store when its -30 during the cold winters

I guess it can be home delivered as well.

Is there a huge difference between using RO and distilled if youre mixing with tap anyways?

Post by **Endo** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:04 pm

HeeBeeGB wrote:For now I think my CC filter may suffice and bought a spare cartridge as well. And ill have to decide if its worth hauling water from the grocery store when its -30 during the cold winters I guess it can be home delivered as well.

Agreed. I assume I'll need to use a cartridge on occasions so I'll buy a few back-ups as well just in case my RO supply is not avaialble (or the snow is too deep

). I leave the filter holder in the reservoir when I use RO, but iI don't like the fact it has no filter (or even a screen). I think I'll take apart my old softener cartiridge and modify it so it acts as screen at least.

HeeBeeGB wrote:Is there a huge difference between using RO and distilled if youre mixing with tap anyways?

I understand they are the same.

One other thing you may want to consider. Apparently drinking soft water (RO) may have some negative health effects due to reduced mineral intake, so perhaps my water cooler system is not the best for the family drinking water....(I just can't win).

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_hea ... alized.pdf

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:28 pm

One other thing you may want to consider. Apparently drinking soft water (RO) may have some negative health effects due to reduced mineral intake, so perhaps my water cooler system is not the best for the family drinking water....(I just can't win).

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_hea ... alized.pdf[/quote]

isnt that what a viamin is for? centrum + ?

java man · Post by **java man** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:58 pm

Update on the machine I ordered from Espressoplanet in Mississauga . . . It was delivered on Monday, I finally got the chance to open the carton this afternoon. It was tested and set up by Chris Coffee. It DOES have the steam boiler drain.

I ordered it with the no-burn steam arm, and it has a 2-hole steam tip. The holes look like they're 1 mm or less. Has anyone else received a machine with a 2-hole steam tip??

I also ordered it with the optional timer. The timer is attached to a wire and currently hangs outside the machine. I think I've seen photos of the timer inside the case. Any suggestions about putting the timer inside, or should I leave it outside the machine?

Unfortunately, I can't fire it up to try it. I have all my stuff in storage and am staying in a hotel because my new condo was not ready for occupancy when I had to give up possession of my house. So the Mini sits in a storage locker along side the new La Cimbali Max Hybrid grinder . . . and dozens of other boxes of stuff. The last date I was given for moving in is June 30, so it is going to be a couple of bad-coffee weeks.

Cheers,

Rick

Post by **Endo** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:19 pm

java man wrote:It was tested and set up by Chris Coffee. It DOES have the steam boiler drain.

Sweet! Good to know.

java man wrote:I ordered it with the no-burn steam arm, and it has a 2-hole steam tip. The holes look like they're 1 mm or less. Has anyone else received a machine with a 2-hole steam tip??

I have the no burn wand. The holes are closer to 1.5mm I believe. The holes on my 0.9mm 4 hole tip appear much smaller. The no burn wand is a $45 option. I assume they also gave you the stock 4 hole tip and wand too. No?

java man wrote:Any suggestions about putting the timer inside, or should I leave it outside the machine?

Leave it outside.

java man wrote:So the Mini sits in a storage locker along side the new La Cimbali Max Hybrid grinder . . .

That is brutal! You have more patience than me!

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:18 am

Javaman...hotel coffee is no good :) break it out...lol

java man · Post by **java man** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:49 pm

Endo, I checked everything else to be sure it was there, but I forgot to check for the original steam arm. It looks like it's time for a trip to the storage locker. Fortunately, the machine is the last thing that went in, so I can get at it easily.

So, you're saying you got a two-hole tip with the no burn steam arm? If yes, how was it?

Heebee, if there was room for my espresso setup in the tiny hotel kitchenette, it would be in here! But unfortunately, it just won't fit. But there's a JJ Beans within 5 mins by bike, so I won't be completely without espresso.

Cheers,

Rick

Post by **Endo** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:37 pm

java man wrote:So, you're saying you got a two-hole tip with the no burn steam arm? If yes, how was it?

Well, it's definitely faster than the stock 4 hole 0.9mm tip. I'd say it fits in between the super fast 3 hole 1.3mm tip and the stock 4 hole 0.9mm tip. (Just for your info, the 3 hole tip has a 56% larger hole area than the 4 hole).

I find the 2 hole works well for steaming larger quantities of milk (say 10 oz milk in a 20 oz pitcher). The holes are also angled almost straight down, so you can get a good swirl going rather than the "boiling roll" effect you get with the 4 hole tip. But this also means you need to use a different technique (use the walls of the pitcher to get the swirl).

I almost never steam more than 8 oz of milk (single Lattes), so I prefer the 4 hole 0.9mm tip. You can't use the 4 hole tip on the no-burn wand, but you can use the no-burn 2 hole tip on the stock wand. So I only use the stock steam wand (or longer S5 wand to be precise) and switch from the 4 hole tip to the no-burn 2 hole tip (or 3 hole tip) for large milk volumes (like mutiple capps at parties).

The no-burn tip is easier to wipe milk off as well.

i would suggest you not install the no-burn wand until you are first comfortable steaming with the stock setup (which can take months in my case).

With a new machine and grinder, you'll have your hands full for a while just trying to settle on grind, dose, tamp, etc. Best to keep things simple at the start and stay stock.

Post by **JohnB** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:00 pm

Endo wrote:
java man wrote:So, you're saying you got a two-hole tip with the no burn steam arm? If yes, how was it?
Well, it's definitely faster than the stock 4 hole 0.9mm tip. I'd say it fits in between the super fast 3 hole 1.3mm tip and the stock 4 hole 0.9mm tip. (Just for your info, the 3 hole tip has a 56% larger hole area than the 4 hole).

The 1.3mm tip I received from CC has 4 holes not 3.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:20 pm

java man wrote: Heebee, if there was room for my espresso setup in the tiny hotel kitchenette, it would be in here! But unfortunately, it just won't fit. But there's a JJ Beans within 5 mins by bike, so I won't be completely without espresso.

Cheers,

Rick

Nice, I hear JJ has better beans than Artigianos...at least thats what my brother says...

Im a noob at this but all I can say this is going to be one serious hobby

Just waiting for my Urnex supplies, Pallo brush, Filters, Motta Knockbox, Espro pitcher, Bumper Tamper,La Spaz naked PF, Palm digital scale...should be here in a couple days...i hope/think. Hope fully no issues with USPS. Greenbeanery items should arrive first even though items were placed after CC. Just want to have it in place before the machine (call me wierd)

Its a matter of deciding on the Mini Vivaldi options...timer..y or no..can i get my lazy butt outta bed

and run downstairs to the kichen in the morning to turn the machine on?

(25 min for boiler warmup right? and 4min for the steam boiler?)

Caffe tech will calibate the machine so that the proper temperature is read at the grouphead....offset

From what I understand, a preinfusion chamber is not really neccessary.

Anything else I should be aware of?

Post by **Endo** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:26 pm

HeeBeeGB wrote: Anything else I should be aware of?

Are you kidding? I was less prepared for my children's birth.

You one seriously committed noob, dude!

Post by **Endo** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:36 pm

JohnB wrote: The 1.3mm tip I received from CC has 4 holes not 3.

WOW. I've never seen that one. When did you get it? I need it to complete my tip collection.

You do realize that's double the area of the 4 hole 0.9mm? Must be a steaming monster.

If I used that on my Mini my steam pressure would be down at 0.5 bar in no time.

BrewHaHa · Post by **BrewHaHa** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:38 pm

Endo wrote:You can't use the 4 hole tip on the no-burn wand, but you can use the no-burn 2 hole tip on the stock wand.

As discussed in another thread on this forum, one way to use the 4 hole tip (or other non-no-burn tips) on the no-burn arm is to wrap the arm's Teflon tube with Teflon pipe thread tape until it's thick enough to create a good seal when the 4 hole tip is attached.

I just went through all the tips I have, on the no-burn arm, using this method, and came to the conclusion that the "new" 4 hole tip is best for me. (I normally steam 4 oz of milk in a 12 oz pitcher; sometimes 8 oz of milk for two cappas at a time.) I just can't get good microfoam with the old "original" 3 and 4 hole tips with only 4 oz milk. (Even upping it to 5 or 6 oz of milk makes a huge difference, but I only need 4 oz.) The 2-hole tip that comes with the no-burn arm comes close to working for me, but it's still just too fast. (Probably that, plus the angle the steam comes out.)

BTW, the 8mm to 10mm adapter that Chris Coffee sells (and that comes with a different, even smaller-hole 2 hole tip) is actually made for the no burn arm of a different brand of machine, so it also has a gasket inside to seal to the Teflon tube. (I.e., no extra tape required.) I tried the 2 hole tip that came with that adapter, and found it to be too slow, even for just 4 oz of milk. I also bought the "Pasquini 4 Hole Steam Tip" that fits that adapter (also from ChrisCoffee), and found it to be to fast for my 4 oz. (I didn't try it with 8 oz, since it's a deal-killer for me if it doesn't work with 4 oz. I realize now I could have tried 8 oz just to report to the group. Sorry.)

Apparently, one MIGHT be able to fit other 10mm tips onto that adapter, but I ran out of enthusiasm for tracking down other tips when I started reading that some 10mm threads are different than others, and various tips might either not fit at all, or require filing.

One last note: I attaching and removing tips from the no-burn arm, I noticed there was steam getting up into the arm. (How did I know? It got HOT! And water drained out when I removed the tip.) Turns out the internal Teflon tube got pulled out from up at the top of the arm. I was able to press it back up into the tube, and, apparently re-seat it well enough to fix the leak.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:49 pm

Endo wrote:
HeeBeeGB wrote: Anything else I should be aware of?
Are you kidding? I was less prepared for my children's birth.

You one seriously committed noob, dude!

Lol

I was easily convinced when my buddy, that owns a Viebiemme and Macap grinder, made me an espresso. My gawd, the earth turned and hell froze!

I never enjoyed espresso ever before and hated coffee because of what I was used to at 'Tom Dick and Harry' coffee shops.

I was convinced this was the best possible route as my wife enjoys fresh cappuccinos and lattes as well.........instead of going over to my buddys house ALL the time. lol

java man · Post by **java man** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:39 pm

Endo,

Good catch on the stock steam arm. It is nowhere to be found in the box containing my machine. I'll email them and ask them to send it along. Learning to steam takes time with each machine. I've got the best results when the quantity of milk one normally steams, the pitcher size, and the tip have been well-matched. It's the only easy way to get pourable microfoam.

Heebee,

FYI, the invoice for my Mini says the preinfusion chamber is already installed and was included in the price. I didn't take the machine apart to check, but I doubt they'd itemize it on the invoice if it isn't included.

Cheers,

Rick

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:24 pm

java man wrote:Endo,

Heebee,

FYI, the invoice for my Mini says the preinfusion chamber is already installed and was included in the price. I didn't take the machine apart to check, but I doubt they'd itemize it on the invoice if it isn't included.

Cheers,

Rick

I will check...as I have the ball rolling with Caffe Tech....Thanks JavaMan

Post by **Dodger1** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:18 am

I had Chris install the preinfusion chamber but I double checked that by simply removing the metal cup warmer and taking a peek inside.

You can see what an installed preinfusion chamber looks like @

http://www.chriscoffee.com/files/14/LaS ... anual2.pdf

java man · Post by **java man** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:51 am

Thanks, dodger. I'll check it out.

Yesterday my realtor told me that my builder will NOT have my condo ready for June 30 as promised. Now it's July 31. That tears it. I can't stand living in a hotel for another 6 weeks. I'll look for a short term apartment rental today, and if I can find one, I'll jailbreak Max and Mini (i.e. take them out of the storage locker and set them up). I'm not THAT patient!

Cheers,

Rick

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:04 am

No preinfusion...its an extra....

sorry about the news javaman that really sux

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:40 pm

Just had some black cat...yum...good to know i can get these beans 2 blocks from work in a newly opened shop

java man · Post by **java man** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:02 am

Mini and Max . . . jailbroken.

First impression -- maybe because of the grind or grind plus temperature control, fewer off-flavours than from my Wega.

Rick

: Mini V and Max Break Jail.jpg (106 KiB) Viewed 60077 times

Post by **Endo** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:08 am

Nice.

Need to find a spot for that timer.

I imagine a lot of the flavour changes will be the result of the that fancy new Max Hybrid grinder. I wouldn't expect the Vivaldi to deliver a huge flavour difference over the Wega. It's mostly an improvement in convenience due to the DB.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:49 am

Lookin good

I guess its set and forget and timer is off to the side or sticky taped somewhere?

Post by **SnowDragon** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:18 am

I got mine with the wire coming from under the machine and the timer hidden behind it.

I find the timer needs to be re adjusted a couple time a year as it loses time after a while. Not Swiss precision I guess.

Otherwise I don’t need access to it.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:18 am

Update: A payment hiccup but things are good.

Mini should be in tomorrow from Caffe Tech next day service. I continue to look forward to their service and im doing good by supporting the local economy....

Mini should be in tomorrow morning

All other neccessary items are in...

Just deciding on the grinder...baratza vario with a small footprint of the K30 with a foorprint thats kinda huuuuge. Baratza has pretty good reviews so far and is considerable less than the K30. K30 has some dosing problems from what i hear but is this reallly an issue? Its quieter, quicker, probably wont breakdown in my lifetime (unless i open a coffee bar). Baratza with the other lines from what I understand breaks down after a year? Even tho it contains Mahlkonig innards, they are still manufactured in Taiwan and shipped back over...

Hmmmmm......

Post by **Endo** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:29 pm

HeeBeeGB wrote: Just deciding on the grinder.......

K30 and Vario are very different animals. K30 is really a commercial grinder. Built to do 20 lbs of coffee a day. I'm sure it grinds very nicely, but it's overkill in the home. Still, if you're into high quality machinery, (as many espresso hobbyists are), it might be a good choice if you can get it at a good price. Do you need a Hummer in your driveway? No. Would you like one? Yes.

The Vario was designed specifically for the home market. It was designed to deliver the same taste as the commercial grinder, but be smaller, cleaner and generally more convenient to use.

If I could get a K30 for $800 or less, I would buy it. For me, the reason would be mostly for the excitement of owning a piece of high quality machinery and perhaps some reduced maintenance cost if I was to keep it for more than 10 years (which is always unlikely).

If the K30 was more than that, I'd get the $430 Vario. It will do the job fine, take less space and even matches the look of the VIvladi better in my opinion.

Post by **Richard** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:42 pm

Endo wrote:K30 is really a commercial grinder. . . . but it's overkill in the home.

A broadly sweeping, uselessly subjective generalization if ever there was one. Thank you for your opinion.

Post by **Endo** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:27 pm

At least it had some information..........(which is more than I can say bout your last 4 posts):

"A broadly sweeping, uselessly subjective generalization if ever there was one. Thank you for your opinion."

"What is it about the temperature information in the VI Site and/or the VII Site (click at the top of the forum) that you find inadequate?"

"Well, in a word, no. That is one person's opinion, limited to one afternoon with one specimen of the grinder. Relax for a couple of years and see how it pans out."

"Endo (which sounds all too much like a root canal, i.e., endodontist), precisely what is a 0 oz flush?"

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:40 pm

Well...Baratza is on the way

It woulda been nice with the K30 but by George...what good is a light sable when you cant wield it?

Due to space limitations the Baratza will have to do.
Plus the 1000+ I'd save would be put towards my vacation in 4 weeks....or some Kona beans

Post by **Endo** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:49 pm

I haven't tried the Vario yet, but from everything I've read from the experts, I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Only people disappointed (and bitter) will be those who spent a lot of $$$ on big commercial grinders based on feedback from last year's "Titan Grinder Project" (me included). Too bad it wasn't available last year when I was shopping for a grinder. Still, if I try hard enough, I'm sure I can convince myself a big commercial grinder was the right choice. "It'll last forever!" (darn....I'm still not convinced).

Post by **Richard** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:24 pm

Endo wrote:At least it had some information..........(which is more than I can say bout your last 4 posts):

"A broadly sweeping, uselessly subjective generalization if ever there was one. Thank you for your opinion."

Endo, while my post was less than complimentary, it was nevertheless factual. But it was also off-topic and so I was out of line, so I apologize to all readers for being off-topic.

For the information content, Endo, I have a K30 Vario (yes, that is the correct nomenclature) in the kitchen and have been living happily with it for a year plus. Far from overkill, I find it a superb tool. My only regret is that it was not the first espresso grinder I purchased; it may be the last. I recommend it highly to anyone in pursuit of another level of control, quality, consistency, and flavor.

Post by **Endo** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:02 pm

Sorry Richard, I was a bit rough too.

Thanks for the info on the K30. I have neever tried one, but I've looked at one pretty closely at my retailer. Indeed, it does seem like an awesome machine.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:23 pm

Im sure ill have the case of the upgraditus...K30 will be the first one for consideration

especially when they come out with K30 ver 2.

Id hate to waste Black Cat on dialing in the grinder...but the coffee place i go to, depending on the barista...kinda know when its dialed in correctly. Had the full range. Hard to imagine it taste like different coffees but itsall black cat.

Post by **Endo** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:34 pm

HeeBeeGB wrote:Im sure ill have the case of the upgraditus...K30 will be the first one for consideration

If things never wore out or if you bought the top of the line first time, there would be no upgrading.

Now what's the fun in that?

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:01 pm

Yeah, this way I can rant and rave and look forward to the next machine/grinder...although im thinking the mini is pretty much bombproof :)

Post by **JohnB** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:29 pm

Endo wrote:
Only people disappointed (and bitter) will be those who spent a lot of $$$ on big commercial grinders based on feedback from last year's "Titan Grinder Project" (me included). Too bad it wasn't available last year when I was shopping for a grinder. Still, if I try hard enough, I'm sure I can convince myself a big commercial grinder was the right choice. "It'll last forever!" (darn....I'm still not convinced).

You seem to be the only one second guessing your choice in equipment. You are also the only one pining for a B Vario when you have an excellent grinder on the counter. I'm thrilled with my Majors & the fact that the pair of them fully restored didn't cost me as much as the little Vario is frosting on the cake.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:08 pm

Nice find John B...I cant recall your history in finding grinders but when you are eager to fire up with no grinders to start with ...where do you start?

BrewHaHa · Post by **BrewHaHa** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:18 pm

JohnB wrote:I'm thrilled with my Majors & the fact that the pair of them fully restored didn't cost me as much as the little Vario is frosting on the cake.

Hmmm... I don't remember you saying what your "favorite "Mazzer Store"" is. Could it be you're waiting for a pair of Roburs to come available?

Post by **JohnB** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:46 am

I posted about my "favorite Mazzer store" on H-B when I picked up my old style SJ last December. Its the same CT. (Ansonia) salvage outfit that has been Ebaying the ex Starbucks SJs & Majors for several years now. If you make an appointment & take a drive down you can get some very good deals on grinders they haven't cleaned up. The pickings are getting slim & the majority of the Majors are the old style with the aluminum dosers & flush top. I've been there a few times so they let me pick through the few late style Majors left but even then I had to work a few dents out of one doser. All of them need a thorough cleaning, new burrs, paint, hopper, maybe a power cord, new feet??, ect. The parts are cheap through Phaelon Coffee if you email Owen & buy direct. Since I ran a business restoring vintage European motorcycles for many years I enjoy the refurbishing process & have whatever equipment is required. Unless you have to replace the bearings its all pretty straight forward & basic hand/sanding/painting tools will get you through it.

If you are willing to buy sight unseen I believe they will pick out a "decent" one for you & ship but I have no idea what the cost would be. Personally I'd rather pick out my own & hear it run but if anyone wants contact info send me a PM or email.

BrewHaHa · Post by **BrewHaHa** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:33 pm

JohnB wrote:If you make an appointment & take a drive down you can get some very good deals on grinders they haven't cleaned up. The pickings are getting slim...

Sounds like it was a pretty sweet deal back when you got your machines. Almost like finding buried treasure. Quite an image - rummaging through piles of grinders...

Post by **JohnB** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:48 pm

BrewHaHa wrote: Sounds like it was a pretty sweet deal back when you got your machines. Almost like finding buried treasure. Quite an image - rummaging through piles of grinders...

When I first went down last December they still had a number of crates stacked up with probably 20 in each crate. They brought out the fork lift & moved crates so I could dig through the pile. Very accommodating. When I picked up the Majors this spring the grinders were mostly out on the floor with only a couple crates left. Still it was fun for a gearhead like me. Not quite as interesting as finding a barn full of old sportscars but I always enjoy getting a great deal on high quality equipment.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:18 pm

I have the correct machine now as the first one that arrived did not have a drain valve....took a couple days to have another reshipped. Wanted to ensure that in the future, the cleaning of boilers will be a painfree experience as much as possible. The Idea of syringing solution out of a boiler does not sound fun...nor repacking a box and having it done 200 miles away either. Cant be that difficult can it?

Thanks for the great support/threads here on the forum.

The Baratza Vario has been working great and small enough to place back on my cart (will post pics later) sans hopper. It was relatively easy to find the setting based on other forums and fine tuning with the micro slider. Great grinder and easy to use and didnt really crack the book open . Grinding by weight right now....Must admit that I burned through a few beans trying to get the correct grind dosage and tamp

But think I have it down now....

Still trying to master the timing of creating coffee on the weekend as it may be regular to create 5 coffees in the morning for sat and sun and i think this may be the best order...

1. espresso.
2. 2 americanos.
3. latte
4. espresso.

Trying to understand all the flashing lights and wondering if the boiler has refilled by the time i get to my second americano. I understand the magic number is 6 oz...do not exceed this. So its another 4 min for the boiler to draw more water and heat? Although I think I may have exceeded this...barely as Im serving the americanos in 6oz cups.

Managed to set the 'blocking alarm off' this morning as I managed to choke the machine. May have been cause by the slider switch beeing readjusted during the moving of the grinder....

I do believe this is one great machine....and do not regret it as I was looking at the Expobar Brewtus and Dalla Corte.

Thanks to the quick and timely responses over at Caffe Tech and Chris. Im sure they were very annoyed with me in answering all the multitude of questions I had.....

Post by **Endo** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:57 pm

HeeBeeGB wrote:Trying to understand all the flashing lights and wondering if the boiler has refilled by the time i get to my second americano. I understand the magic number is 6 oz...do not exceed this. So its another 4 min for the boiler to draw more water and heat?

No need to wait 4 minutes.

The hot water turns off automatically after 6 oz. There is still lots of hot water in the boiler at this point but they cut it off so the lower heater coils do not get exposed to air and reduce heater life (it's a permanent part of the sealed boiler). The boiler refills in about 20 seconds and will then take another 1 minute to get heated back up for another 6 oz of hot water (or steaming if you like).

Not really a problem, since you can be pulling another espresso on the brew boiler while you wait a minute for the steam boiler to get back to full temp if you are running in 20A mode. (That's the beauty of a DB). In other words, it's unlikely you'll be held back by the machine speed.

HeeBeeGB wrote:Managed to set the 'blocking alarm off' this morning as I managed to choke the machine.

Interesting. You're the second person to say they've done this. Seems like it's only my machine where the blocking alarm never goes off (even when completely choked). I can only guess there is something funny about my flow meter where it continues to signal flow even when choked. Maybe it's sensing some vibration it's misinterpreting as flow. Oh well. I don't see any leaks so I won't worry too much.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:14 pm

I actually use the double spout portafilter for the americanos so i would be filling the cups in succession...It would be way to strong for them...even though its already watered down

Has anyone experienced this? After using the Naked PF serveral times I do not get a proper seal. I thought it was due to my initial coffee tamping for one reason or another

or my rookiness. But lets say after 6 shots...the group head & PF inersection area sprouts a leak with water spraying everywhere.

It happened first with coffee (OMG what a mess when you have a geyser of coffee going all over the place) and without (cleaner but damn that hot water is hot). Is it because the metal has expanded so much that the seals dont operate properly? I dont have this problem with the included PF's as part of the Mini.

Ive also tinkering with the timer as it failed to turn on this morning. (after figuring out that you have to undo the 3 phillips screws to attach cable) Ive tried the unplug and plug routine so we'll see (via other thread)...and yes its switched to On.

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:15 pm

Heres the set up....

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:31 pm

Are you brushing the grounds off the gasket between shots?

Post by **HeeBeeGB** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:09 pm

chas wrote:Are you brushing the grounds off the gasket between shots?

I guess not as much as I should...but i do clean it with a flush wriggle and wipdown after.

But switching between the two PF...having one a proper seal and the other not is a little strange. The 2 included in the box was ok...the single and the double....but the naked has issues...

Post by **Endo** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:04 pm

HeeBeeGB wrote:After using the Naked PF serveral times I do not get a proper seal.

Have you tried switching baskets?