Unrelated GS3 Chatter

Post by **Endo** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:16 pm

So Chas...are you going to start a GS3 forum?

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:54 pm

Post by **fiddlefly** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:11 am

Al right Chas...

You enticed so many people into getting a Vivaldi ...
Now you'll do the same with the GS3!
(I better start saving)! lol...
But seriously, it's great that you are doing this!

Post by **oton** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:37 am

will this forum disappear?

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:59 am

The S1Cafe lives on. I just reupped the domain name for another year.

Post by **Endo** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:51 pm

chas wrote:The S1Cafe lives on. I just reupped the domain name for another year.

Phew!!

Thanks Chas.

I'd like to here how your GS3 compares once you get it going.

I'll try and avoid your GS3 web site. The temptation may be too strong.

Post by **Endo** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:19 pm

OK, I couldn't resist.

I like the photos of the inside. Looks like a nice layout. The horizontal boilers give it a good compact shape for the home counter top. The flow-meter looks more robust than the S1.

Sidepanels like these (but with the LS logo) would look sweet on the S1.

But besides the Gruppo Saturro (GS) or Saturated Brew Group, I don't see why this machine costs 3 times the price of an S1.

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:39 pm

It is interesting how LM used plastic on the GS/3. The drip tray is actually plastic albeit thicker than on the S1. However, they wrapped it in a layer of stainless steel on the front and sides that show.

On the flip side, the two "plastic" side panels actually have a thick stainless steel plate on the inside so they are really heavy. I pulled the left side panel off already in order to bump up the group pressure. As in most plumbed in machines, the pump provides a boost on top of the street pressure. I'm sure that Chris Coffee set it to 9bar but at my location it came in at 8.5bar.

I also like the fact that all four of shot buttons can be individually set as to whether PI is on or not and the PI on/off times can be individually set per button.

I saw some early reviewers note that, while you can make excellent microfoam with the GS3, there is a learning curve. I didn't note any learning curve. I think the S1 was my learning curve!

Post by **Endo** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:45 pm

chas wrote:It is interesting how LM used plastic on the GS/3. The drip tray is actually plastic albeit thicker than on the S1. However, they wrapped it in a layer of stainless steel on the front and sides that show.

A stainless wrapped drip tray would be a cool "upgrade" for the S1. It could slide right into the existing spot.

That plastic on the top of the group looks like something that might get cracked or chipped if I dropped a cup.

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:27 pm

I realized yesterday that I had the PI settings all hosed up so I fixed that this AM before my first shot and was starting with some nice fresh beans. It was the darkest, tiger striped, syrupy pour I've ever seen outside the occasional YouTube video - almost brought a tear to my eye.

I think this GS/3 might be a keeper! No mini-foamed milk either, micro all the way...

Post by **Endo** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:11 pm

chas wrote:I realized yesterday that I had the PI settings all hosed up so I fixed that this AM before my first shot and was starting with some nice fresh beans. It was the darkest, tiger striped, syrupy pour I've ever seen outside the occasional YouTube video - almost brought a tear to my eye.

I think this GS/3 might be a keeper! No mini-foamed milk either, micro all the way...

Damn....I was afraid this would happen.

michael · Post by **michael** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:40 pm

do you have the machine plumbed in or are you using the tank

whats the warm up time like with only 15A

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:21 pm

It's plumbed in but also came with the tank. I'd say it takes a solid 30min to warm up. However, during this time both boilers are on simultaneously unlike the S1 that heats the group boiler first and then starts up the steam boiler. Plus the GS/3 has to heat 5L of water vs 2.95L.

michael · Post by **michael** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:44 pm

almost a long time to heat up, especially in the morning; the S1 in 20a mode seems to heat up in no time (but im sure you know that)

more importantly, when are you going to post some first impressions of the coffee

Post by **Endo** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:15 pm

michael wrote:almost a long time to heat up, especially in the morning; the S1 in 20a mode seems to heat up in no time (but im sure you know that)

more importantly, when are you going to post some first impressions of the coffee

Lots more water and metal in the GS3. Good for temp stability, bad for warmup time. Given the choice, I'd take the stability of the GS3 any day. (It's easy to add a timer).

One of Greg Scaces criticisms of the Vivaldi is the temperature instability due to the brew head hanging out in front of the boiler. I'd like to see how this compares to the GS3 (and maybe a Vetrano too), overlaid on a graph.

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:05 pm

Endo wrote: Lots more water and metal in the GS3. Good for temp stability, bad for warmup time. Given the choice, I'd take the stability of the GS3 any day. (It's easy to add a timer).

Both the On/Off timer and a shot timer are built into the GS/3.

Post by **JohnB** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:05 am

Endo wrote: One of Greg Scaces criticisms of the Vivaldi is the temperature instability due to the brew head hanging out in front of the boiler. I'd like to see how this compares to the GS3 (and maybe a Vetrano too), overlaid on a graph.

The only downside to the Vivaldi set up is that it requires a warming flush if left idle for awhile. The Vetrano brewgroup overheats & requires much longer cooling flushes. (apples to oranges) The fact that Greg chooses to own a Vivaldi over something else speaks for itself.

Post by **Endo** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:42 am

chas wrote:
Endo wrote: Lots more water and metal in the GS3. Good for temp stability, bad for warmup time. Given the choice, I'd take the stability of the GS3 any day. (It's easy to add a timer).
Both the On/Off timer and a shot timer are built into the GS/3.

Damn....another reason to buy a GS3....stop! stop! The pull is getting too strong. Next thing you know, you will be telling me the taste is fantastic.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:45 pm

Full VII vs GS/3 Comparison Here:

http://gs3cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2

Post by **oton** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:37 pm

Endo wrote:
chas wrote:
Endo wrote: Lots more water and metal in the GS3. Good for temp stability, bad for warmup time. Given the choice, I'd take the stability of the GS3 any day. (It's easy to add a timer).
Both the On/Off timer and a shot timer are built into the GS/3.
Damn....another reason to buy a GS3....stop! stop! The pull is getting too strong. Next thing you know, you will be telling me the taste is fantastic.

For $7500

The taste should not be fantastic, it must be super duper unbelievable.

I am still surprised how coffee machines are heavily overpriced.(and that dalla corte mini at $3000?? come on...

)

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:40 pm

The GS/3 is still overpriced but it's way below $7500 now.

Post by **Endo** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:07 pm

Chas, why the extra long loops of black electrical wire going into the boilers?

Post by **JohnB** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:14 pm

chas wrote:Full VII vs GS/3 Comparison Here:

http://gs3cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2

That's stats only & the GS3 data is spotty. Now that you've got the S1V2 dialed in how about pulling some side by side shots?? Pull the best shot on each machine with the same blend & tell us if the GS3 shot tastes better.

Post by **oton** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:57 am

And if it's possible.. a blind test. Usually I do this when I taste different spirits -whisky, vodka, gin- usually the price factor plays an important psicological role in the taste, and our tongue and head says "this drink must taste better because it cost x3 times more" so I serve 2 drinks in 2 same type glasses, I write which brand contains each glass, I close my eyes, remove the glasses and began to taste them. It's crucial to not spot diferences by glass shape, different temperatures, etc to not delude ourselves.

Post by **Endo** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:41 am

I'm almost sure the GS3 will be better. But at close to 3x the cost, you have to be a serious espresso nut to buy one (and have the disposible income). The Synesso 1-group would probably be my first choice if money was no object. The GS3 would be a close second. For those who have always dreamed of owning the best machine and have the money, then more power to them. I won't judge.

As far as taste improvement goes. If I rate the worst shot I ever had as a 0 and the best at 100 (which so far came from a world class barista using a Mirage and Super Caimano grinder with 1-week old award winning gourmet espresso). I'd say my present S1 rates at about a 95. I expect the GS3 would split this and rate about 97 if everything was perfect (which it never is). For comparison, I would rate my old PID'd Silvia at around 85.

So the point I'm making is, after about $1000, you are getting into some SERIOUS deminishing returns. But at this point, it's more about the hobby than the taste.

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:01 am

Endo wrote:Chas, why the extra long loops of black electrical wire going into the boilers?

Beats the hell out of me. BTW: Those photos are ones I got from CC, it's not my machine. That said, I have had the left cover off to adjust the group pressure and didn't even notice if mine has a coil of wire like that. Maybe they decided not to stock multiple cables and they use the same group temp sensor cable they use in the 10 group machines!

michael · Post by **michael** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:05 am

endo:

love the high rating of 95; not sure i am that confident with my espresso

everything more expensve has declining marginal utility; the question is does it have a higher total utility

wny the synesso over the GS3; while all the hot coffee shops in nyc now seem to have the synesso, it seems a little large for the kitchen, no? why do you think it would be better; how does it compare in price

Post by **Endo** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:18 pm

While I do feel my best shots on an S1 have been in the 90 to 95 range, it is SO easy to drop down 30 points or so if you use bad beans or technique. I'm sure this is no different with the GS3.

Put a newbie on a S1 or GS3, give him some Illy and a Whirly-blade grinder (or worse yet, stale pre-ground from a can) and I'm sure he'll come close to my 0 score. Don't laugh. I've seen many proud newbies scooping pre-ground into their $2000 machines and proudly posting the ugliest, no crema shots I've ever seen on YouTube.

Ignorance is bliss.

As far as the Synesso is concerned. I consider it the ultimate 1-group. Put as you said it less suited for the home environment than the GS3 (especially if you have a small kitchen). On the other hand, if you have the room, check out this guys Synesso setup midway down on page 22 (check out his Robur as well ):

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-ma ... 4-420.html

My "humble" S1 setup for comparison is on page 23.

Post by **JohnB** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:36 pm

Looks kind of tippy & odd with the taller legs that far inboard. You would think they'd be push out towards the 4 corners more. Chas are they all that tall or are those legs taller then yours?

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:28 pm

It's the Synesso that's on stilts, not the GS/3. The GS/3 is the same height as "most" VII's.

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:30 pm

JohnB wrote:
chas wrote:Full VII vs GS/3 Comparison Here:

http://gs3cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2
That's stats only & the GS3 data is spotty. Now that you've got the S1V2 dialed in how about pulling some side by side shots?? Pull the best shot on each machine with the same blend & tell us if the GS3 shot tastes better.

I located a 3/8" JG Tee in my JG spare parts box today so I can have both machines side-by-side and plumbed in. It looks like a VII/GS/3 throw down is on for this weekend.

Post by **Endo** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:50 pm

chas wrote:It's the Synesso that's on stilts, not the GS/3. The GS/3 is the same height as "most" VII's.

John's a leg man.

Post by **Endo** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:56 pm

chas wrote:
I located a 3/8" JG Tee in my JG spare parts box today so I can have both machines side-by-side and plumbed in. It looks like a VII/GS/3 throw down is on for this weekend.

Put away the kill-a-watt, it's gonna be a high kwh weekend.

Please be gentle on the S1.

Post by **JohnB** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:24 pm

chas wrote:It's the Synesso that's on stilts, not the GS/3. The GS/3 is the same height as "most" VII's.

Ah thats right. Once you get over $6k they all start to look alike.

Post by **Endo** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:14 pm

michael wrote:endo:

wny the synesso over the GS3; while all the hot coffee shops in nyc now seem to have the synesso, it seems a little large for the kitchen, no? why do you think it would be better; how does it compare in price

The Synesso goes for about $7500, the GS/3 is about $5000 if you get a deal.

I like the use of stainless on the Synesso, especially on the brew group and sides. The GS/3 uses more plastic and copper. The paddle wheel on top of the Synesso is also one of the main reasons. Also, the steam joystick on the GS/3 is not ideal (IMO), too hidden behind the steam wand for my taste. I like the side lever on the Synesso better.

Have a look at the inside of the Synesso in this photo.....solid.

: Synesso; sidevue.jpg (149.5 KiB) Viewed 59487 times

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:32 am

Where should I be looking for all this copper you're talking about on the GS/3? I'm not seeing much copper other than the copper water tubing connecting the boilers.

I also have no problem with the steam tube position relative to the joystick. Sure you can swivel the steam wand in front of the joystick if you want but that's not the normal position I use or store it in anyway. At the moment with a new group gasket, the PF handle points off to the left and can actually be a bit in the way of the joystick but there is no problem with the location of the steam tube itself. That said I also like the the position of the Synesso joystick better.

There is not that much real difference in the amount of metal either. The drip tray is stainless over plastic and the side panels are plastic over stainless so the metal quantity is all there. I assume that LM decided to make a SMB but didn't want it to look like a SMB. The only obvious place where LM used just plastic instead of metal is the group cover. Sure the Synesso looks a little nicer with its shiny stainless cover but I'd hate to accidentally touch that while the machine is on. That's instant 2nd degree burn territory. Also the thick plastic cover on the GS/3 provides a little insulation on top of the group to keep some of the saturated group heat from radiating away.

Post by **JohnB** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:01 am

You also have to wonder how long it takes the Synesso to fully heat up. How big are those boilers? Personally I see little use in any steam boiler much bigger then the 2.5ltr unit the S1 uses for home use. Keeping all that water hot just wastes $$. How big is the brew boiler on the GS3? Any news on the top secret heating element sizing?

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:23 am

The GS/3 steam boiler is 3.5L. Nobody's talking when it comes to the boiler element sizes. However, they have to be smaller sized than the S1 since the current draw is almost 5A lower when both boilers are on. I was able to watch the current draw when different things were on and off in the S1 and fairly quickly determine how much current each part of the S1 was drawing. In the GS/3, between the dual PIDS and the computer control, the current readings are all over the map. I can't tell what's going on. Plus there are no blinking lights to tell when a particular boiler is on in the GS/3.

Post by **JohnB** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:14 pm

It would be interesting to see how long it takes the GS3 to bring both boilers up to temp from cold vs the S1. The GS3 must tell you when the group boiler has reached set point??? You could tell by the pressure gauge when the steam boiler kicks off.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:27 pm

JohnB wrote:It would be interesting to see how long it takes the GS3 to bring both boilers up to temp from cold vs the S1. The GS3 must tell you when the group boiler has reached set point??? You could tell by the pressure gauge when the steam boiler kicks off.

Both boilers kick on immediately and stay on until they are at temp. With a lot less water the group boiler gets there first. I can tell when the group boiler is there by the temp display and the steam boiler by when it stabilizes at 1.5bar.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:03 pm

My first two rounds of tests (and perhaps last) on VII vs. GS/3 are over. To start, let me say that I prefer just about every normal (non-fufu) variant of coffee more than I do straight espresso and I don't have the most discerning palate in the world. Therefore, I can't tell you that one versus the other brought out more cherry or chocolate or whatever. What I did notice is that the flavor profile of the GS/3 shots is smoother and more balanced. There's a really big spike of one particular flavor in the VII shots that crowds out everything else. In the GS/3 shots that flavor was more subdued allowing other flavors to be distinguished as well. Now if you have a coffee noted for a particular flavor and the VII brought that out more than the GS/3 does then that could be a good thing.

I believe I did as good a job as possible in eliminating variables. I used the same size and style of baskets on each. The tampers were both convex and I did the same stockfleths move followed by two nutations and a 30lb tamp. Temperatures were identical both in machine setting and in the cup. Both machines had clean groups and were left alone to stabilize for at least an hour before the tests. Both shots were in Bodum insulated shot glasses numbered on the bottom and then randomly moved about until I couldn't tell which was which. I cut off both shots at 25 seconds and there had been good tiger striping in each. Preinfusion was set about the same on each machine though with the differences in how pre-infusion works that's probably an apples to oranges thing.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:02 pm

I removed the GS3 shower screen to clean it for the first time before doing my VII/GS3 taste tests. When I turned on the water while scrubbing the stainless steel "dispersion disk" I noticed that there are no holes in the dispersion disk as there are in the S1. I wondered how the flow through the shower screen could be so even when all the water just comes out of one big hole in the middle. Then I noticed the design of the screw that holds on the shower screen. It is hollow in the middle and has a series of perpendicular holes just above the shower screen. So the group water comes down through the center of the screw and shoots out of those holes rather than having holes in the dispersion disk. Perhaps all LMs do it this way, but it is a new one on me.

Post by **JohnB** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:01 pm

I'm assuming you used the same dose for each machine? If so my only comment would be that a dose that works well on the GS3 might not be the ideal dose for that coffee on the S1. I would think you would have to experiment on each machine to find the ideal dose that brought out the flavors you preferred & then compare those two shots. That said I would certainly expect the GS3 to come out on top in this comparison considering its reputation.

Post by **Richard** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:09 pm

chas wrote:Perhaps all LMs do it this way [hollow screw or bolt] . . .

I've seen photos of that in older machines and recall reading somewhere that it's a standard LM design. Again, anecdotal since I've never examined on up close and personal.

Post by **Endo** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:22 pm

I've tasted shots from several saturated group machines like the LM and Synesso and I've always been impressed. They have always been my "goal" in terms of taste.

This morning I did 4 shots back to back on 4 different machines on my morning Cafe hop:

S1 Vivaldi
Faema E-61
LM Mirage
Synesso Cyrna

They all used the Anfim Super Caimano and 49th Epic Espresso so that part of the equation has been eliminated. The saturated groups (LM and Synesso), where my favourites. The Vivaldi and the E-61 were at a level below the others in my opinion. But I guess that is no surprise.

I've never tried a GS3, but the pours sure look a lot like the ones I've done on other LM's.

The Synesso is not in my future for the size, setup convenience and price reasons. But the GS3 sure is tempting.

Post by **RapidCoffee** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:13 pm

Endo wrote:As far as taste improvement goes. If I rate the worst shot I ever had as a 0 and the best at 100 (which so far came from a world class barista using a Mirage and Super Caimano grinder with 1-week old award winning gourmet espresso). I'd say my present S1 rates at about a 95.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

Post by **Endo** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:03 pm

RapidCoffee wrote:
Endo wrote:As far as taste improvement goes. If I rate the worst shot I ever had as a 0 and the best at 100 (which so far came from a world class barista using a Mirage and Super Caimano grinder with 1-week old award winning gourmet espresso). I'd say my present S1 rates at about a 95.
Don't be so hard on yourself.

Don't know what you mean by that. You really think the best shots out there are more than 5% better than what can be made on an S1 or on your Vetrano?

I sure hope so. Let me know if you find it.

Post by **RapidCoffee** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:58 am

Endo wrote:Don't know what you mean by that. You really think the best shots out there are more than 5% better than what can be made on an S1 or on your Vetrano?

The best shots prepared by world-class baristas on world-class equipment? 5% doesn't even come close.

I was trying to be humorous, but I think you know exactly what I mean.

Post by **Endo** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:52 am

RapidCoffee wrote: The best shots prepared by world-class baristas on world-class equipment? 5% doesn't even come close.

I was trying to be humorous, but I think you know exactly what I mean.

I know what you mean. And you are obviously referring to something like the SCAA barista rating scales:

http://www.home-barista.com/tips/what-d ... nt%20scale

I find this this VERY misleading to a lot of home espresso enthusiats since a competition level scale is a very narrow range in the bigger world of espresso that is available to most people reading this forum.

So let me put it another way and see if you understand what I'm saying:

Take a newbie preparing shots on a $100 Breville using pre-ground. How about a shot from a cheap Super-Auto using Illy beans? Or even a Pod or Nespresso? These things I would rate down in the low range of my "spectrum". They are not irrelavant either since based on what I've read here, a large proportion of S1 buyers come from this group (rather than world class experts like yourself).

In other words, I'm just assuming a bigger range on the low end of the taste spectrum. This gives the person thinking of buying a S1 a much better idea of the relative level of espresso quality he can expect buy upgrading to this $2000 machine.

Post by **JohnB** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:42 pm

Chas - Please explain your offset description from the GS3 forum:
"The temp offset on the GS/3 works quite a bit differently than on the Spaz VII. On the VII, you adjust the offset until the water temperature matches what temp you set the machine to. On the GS/3 you set the temp and the actual water temp is what it is. Then you set the offset until the temperature on the front panel display matches the actual water temperature. On my GS/3for example, I set the temp to 95C but the water is 93C. So the offset is adjusted to -2C and then the front panel temp display matches the actual water temperature."

It sounds like you are saying that if you get 93* water when the machine is set to 95C you are simply changing the displayed temp & settling for 93* water. This sounds very similar to the "remove the Crockpot knob & reset position" offset of the DC Mini.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:12 pm

I think I have figured it out. There appear to be two separate offsets. The main offset that I was adjusting just makes the display temperature agree with the current water temperature. There is another temperature offset right after the PID settings that seems to be the actual offset that affects the water temperature.

The manual is pretty good at showing how to find and change the various settings but there is no real description of what the settings do. The majority of them are fairly obvious but there are a few where underdocumentation is a curse! Ah well, that's why a GS/3 Forum is needed, too!

The manual shows actual display photos as it directs you through the menu settings. I noticed that the offset after the PID settings was 9C in the manual but 11C on my machine. As fate would have it my temp setting differed from my water temp by 2C and changing it back to 9C fixed it.

Post by **JohnB** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:37 pm

Seems like a trip up to CC for on site instruction would be a good idea for prospective GS3 purchasers. For the price I'm sure they'd be willing to spend some time on instruction.

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:15 am

Actually I spent a couple of hours going through 60 pages of posts on CoffeeGeek and found out a few things.

1) I was wrong about the dual offsets. The 2nd "offset" after the PID setting is not what I thought. It actually specifies the temperature range around which the PID kicks in. So the offset does work as I originally noted. In other words the offset is used to make the temp reading on the display match the actual water temp and this will be different than the set temperature. A little kludgy but that's how it works.
2) Nobody likes the no burn steam arm, LM has redesigned a new full burn arm to address the complaints but they plan to charge for it at the usual obscene LM markups.
3) Separate from the other steaming issue, there was another steam arm issue where the swivel joint is plastic and doesn't last too long. Apparently, this was changed around 2Q08 and the new units have the mod. HOWEVER, I noticed that mine still has the original plastic part. In looking further I see that the manufacturing date on my machine is April 2008! Apparently, while my machine just arrived in a new shipment to CC, it must have come from a warehouse and certainly wasn't hot off the production line.
4) My serial number is 440 and a guy in Europe that got his a few weeks before mine has 660 and it also has a newer version of firmware. That firmware shows a little indicator on the display that lets you know when the boilers are on.

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:45 am

I was familiar with the steam arm/ swivel issues & the obscene $200 price for the kit. For the money I would expect to get all the current updates from Chris. Putting a plastic swivel nut on a $7000 machine?? So you are saying that in order to get the correct water temp at the brewhead you have to remember to enter the offset whenever you select a brew temp? i.e. if you want 95*C you have to enter 97*C?

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:00 am

You've got it. Not sure how much remembering is required though. If I'm at a particular temperature and want to drop it by a degree I just go drop the set temp by 1 degree. I maybe dropping it from 96 to 95 when I really want to drop the water temp from 94 to 93 but no math is actually required to do that!

Post by **Endo** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:54 am

chas wrote:You've got it. Not sure how much remembering is required though. If I'm at a particular temperature and want to drop it by a degree I just go drop the set temp by 1 degree. I maybe dropping it from 96 to 95 when I really want to drop the water temp from 94 to 93 but no math is actually required to do that!

Hey, you guys should be talking on the GS3 forum. Wouldn't want all this interesting GS3 stuff to get lost over here.

I signed up as a GS3 member the other day. I consider it "step 1" on my path to one day owning the "ultimate machine"

.

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:08 pm

Endo wrote:
I signed up as a GS3 member the other day. I consider it "step 1" on my path to one day owning the "ultimate machine" .

You mean when Chas upgrades in 5-7 years?

I just had a wonderful 14g double made with Pt's Sidamo Espresso roast brewed at 91.2*C so I'm content for the time being.

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:29 pm

Chas- Can you choose between C* & F* when selecting temp or is the finest option 1/10*C? Have you been able to taste the difference between 93*C & 93.5*C yet?

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:36 pm

Well, there's another area where the published literature is misleading at best or just flat out wrong. The PIDs attempt to control to temp to 0.1degrees but the temp can't be set in .1degree increments. When you have the machine in set to show F, the temp setting granularity is 0.3F. When you are in C mode, the temp setting granularity is 0.2C.

michael · Post by **michael** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:29 am

when is the more detailed review, comparison of the GS/3 coming out