my brand new VII isn't playing nice...

[greatoz]

hi gang - i've lurked for a while, this is the first post. ordered a Spaz VII (obvuiously), waited, it came, and i was happy. i ordered the 20A version w/ the 20A plug, and the timer.

just managed to get it plumbed up - that's a story for another day, but suffice it to say that the worst part was punching a hole through my granite countertop. diamond core bits are not cheap...nor are countertops!

so, flushed the water filter/softener system, ran the JG fittings and tubing, made sure i was on a 20AMP circuit, and plugged her up - followed the instructions in the latest copy of the users manual, and have this issue:

plug it in
light 22 blinking
press ON/STBY for +3 seconds
pump sounds (?)
all the lights come on, then go out leaving 13 and 16 to blink as it heats up (the first evolution of this, light 21 was steady on, but 10 seconds of pressing the appropriate button cleared this and it's not in "ECON" mode)
the pressure comes up
the hot water and HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! the steam go like a scalded cat! i think i can burn a hole in my countertop with the wand!
brew boiler and grouphead are cold as a tomb, and stay that way.
((this is intermittent) the steam boiler blows off pressure like a freight train running, sometimes more than once)
then, lights 20 and 21 come and stay on
machine is unresponsive to input

the manual refers to this error condition as "4.2 Damaged Group Temperature Probe", calls it a blocking error (and it is, the VII doesn't want to play anymore) and just sits there, sullenly denying me my precious water of life.

here's what i've done:

power cycled the machine (unplugged it, plugged it back in) numerous times - it's a consistently reproducible error condition.
removed front, top, and left side panel to check for loose wires - didn't find or see any
had a good hard look at the brew boiler's connections - they all LOOK good, am i missing any?
e-mailed Chris' Coffee and gave them all this info

do any of you gurus have any thoughts or ideas? where does the group temperature probe plug in? do i have to crack the back panel to get at it?

and any input for the n00b is very much appreciated folks.

best regards,

bo

[Niko]

Hi Bo,

Welcome to the forums and sorry to welcome you under these circumstances.
I know you've probably heard (and/or read) this before but you will be taken care of by Chris' Coffee no matter what.

Sounds like something got loose in shipping.
You want to triple check the wires connecting to the back of the group boiler, remove just the top cover for starters and take a peek back there. First, unplug the machine and then physically take look with your hands too, move some of those skinny little wires back there to make sure they're securely connected.

[greatoz]

Niko -

Thanks for the response! I appreciate the welcome and am SURE that CC will take care of me...I was just hoping to sort this one out before Monday. You know how it is, you stare at the thing for two weeks while you're waiting on a one-use tool that you need to do it right the FIRST time.

I've got all the covers off this beast - top, front, sides and back, because a visual inspection and some finger poking last night wasn't helpful. I can't see anything loose, and am gonna post pics - perhaps another set of Mk I eyeballs on target will help hammer down the problem.











Any ideas?

[JohnB]

Do you have a timer installed? If not I believe that toggle switch should be set to off. Reread your o/p & you've got the timer so thats not it. Are you sure the boilers are filling? The steam boiler will get REALLY hot if it doesn't fill properly. Normally the steam boiler doesn't heat until the group boiler is up to temp so its odd that yours is doing the opposite.

[JohnB]

When you press the single or double shot buttons does water come out?

[chas]

Niko should have recognized this at once as it is exactly what happened to him when he upgraded his controller board for the programmable preinfusion option and swapped two cables on the board! See this thread for the full details with photos:

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=861

It's a shame to have to go through this right off when receiving your new machine. I don't know how they could have tested this prior to shipment and not caught this. At any rate it will take you 30min or less to fix yourself which beats boxing it up and shipping it back to Chris Coffee. See this document for how to remove the controller box, open it up, and swap the cables.

s1v2/images/LaSpaziale2008FirmwareUpgradeManual.pdf

[greatoz]

JohnB: yessir, there's a timer installed. i found a thread on the board that talked about that, and tried it both ways - same result. also, i do get cold water through the grouphead BEFORE it errors out, which indicates to me that both boilers are filling, but the brew boiler isn't heating.

Chas: i'll have a go at the board tomorrow AM, i think - that's a whole LOT of digging around for 9PM on a Sunday night with work in the AM, but thanks for the observation and the links. i'll talk to ChrisCoffee tomorrow AM, and report back. that said, i have to agree that for the kind of $$$ these bad boys go for it's a DARN shame that it doesn't work out of the box! i also have to wonder how extensive the tests are...but that's off-topic. for now, i'm focused on getting it up and running.

Niko: WHERE in Sac? i'm about an hour away in the East Bay!

thanks, gang!

bo

[greatoz]

HA!!!!!!!!!!!

Chas, you're a star! i'm an inveterate tinkerer and a hardcore computer geek, so the control box wasn't a problem - noticed some build quality issues, but swapping the leads did the trick! only took ten minutes, total...i've got a fully functional machine, and am going to get up early to try my hand at pulling a shot or three before heading out to work!

thanks guys!

bo

[Niko]

Niko should have recognized this at once as it is exactly what happened to him when he upgraded his controller board for the programmable preinfusion option and swapped two cables on the board! See this thread for the full details with photos:

Funny thing is that I did recognize this, but I thought the machine already came from the factory pre-flashed?
Then again, Chris' Coffee are the ones flashing them. They probably didn't check that one.

[Niko]

Niko: WHERE in Sac? i'm about an hour away in the East Bay!
thanks, gang!

bo

Out in the middle of nowhere in Sacramento...
Far enough to where the air is fresh to make me forget about those crossed wires on the VII
You must be in Vallejo?
I'm in the eastern part of Sac (the Vineyard area). We'll have to talk some smack about coffee soon

[greatoz]

Niko - I hear what you're saying, but this was physical wiring. is the VI to VII upgrade just a EEPROM flash versus a physical board replacement? if it's a flash, then the machine was built wrong, and if it's a board replacement, then the wires got crossed when the upgrade happened.

this LOOKS like the first time this has been taken apart, and it certainly felt like it when i was removing the screws that keep the controller box together...

anyhow, no worries, and totally OT, i'm in Benicia, not Vallejo. close, but a bean of a wholly different variety.

bo

[chas]

When CC offered upgrades to those of us that already had machines, you had to send in your old board and got back your reflashed board a few days later. I suspect CC has to remove the boards from the machines to reflash them as well, so it is their fault for misconnecting the wires. Which means they definitely didn't bench test the machine AFTER the flash. Hopefully, they did before and checked/adjustment water pressure and expansion valve open pressure. You can check these fairly easily with the instructions on the S1V2 site and a few metric box wrenches. Since the pump adds an offset to the line pressure, if your house water pressure is different than that at CC, the group pressure will be off and you'll want to adjust it anyway.

HOWEVER, the temp offset adjustment to ensure that the water temp matches the programmed value very probably got reset to 0C when they reflashed the controller and the preinfusion probably defaulted to 0 (off). The former really takes a Scace device to adjust properly though almost everyone's seems to ship with a setting of 0, -1C, or -2C. If you check and it's not set to 0 then they may have set it before the flash and the same value should be valid. They may have written it down and reset it after the flash but then not tested further ti pick up on the other issue,

You might complain to CC about the original issue, mention the temp offset (if you checked and it was set to 0) , and see if they have enough Scace device to let you borrow one for a few days. If they tell you they only have enough to satisfy their in house use then perhaps someone will loan you one. And don't forget to tell them how much help you got from this forum

[Niko]

Hey Bo,

I think the VI to VII upgrade is a whole different animal. The board is totally different.
I'm actually from the Bay Area
Raised in the heart of the Peninsula, San Mateo.
Even though I moved, I'm still in the Bay Area several times a week

Glad to hear you got the VII up and running.
I was actually posting that last night, thinking it was acting exactly like mine with the crossed wires - then I deleted it because I thought "no way....

[chas]

Niko, actually the board is not very different between the original V1 and the current V2 boards. I am almost positive that the reason for VI mode is that they still make the V1 and use the same board for both. The only real difference is the jumper/switch and connector for the optional timer. If you make sure the timer switch is off and you are in VI mode there should be no functional difference for V1 owners.

ON the other hand if you put one of these V2 boards in a V1, plugged in the optional timer, and set it to V2 mode, I bet that might work, too. The only uncertainty would be whether having the old boiler temp sensors vs. the new ones would have any impact. When V1 owners get their boiler temp probes replaced, I wonder if they are not getting the newer probes anyway.

[Niko]

That's interesting.
When I spoke to one of Chris' techs, he said that it would take a whole new board to make my VI into a VII.
Of course I looked into it

The only uncertainty would be whether having the old boiler temp sensors vs. the new ones would have any impact. When V1 owners get their boiler temp probes replaced, I wonder if they are not getting the newer probes anyway.

My old S1 has the newer style probe in the steam boiler, makes me wonder if all I need to do is pop in a new one for the group and it'll be ready.

....oh, and a new sticker to indicate the new temperature range.

I am very tempted to do this upgrade just for prosperity It would be nice just see an old S1 with a "modified" controller board, newer style probes and of course a dual manometer (that fits in the current cut-out). If the economy wasn't so dismal (and me so broke) it would be a fun project.

[greatoz]

thanks for all the responses - I'm waiting until Monday to speak with CC about how we'll address the lack of testing. Perhaps they'll send me a Scace device and a thermometer? Here's hoping.

So I started playing with grind and dose and tamp, and no matter WHAT, my espresso tastes like, well, let's just say it's not right at ALL. I even had my barista girlfriend try to pull a shot - and she agrees, they're off.

I took a thermometer, and had a look at temps - the steam boiler makes hot water at a consistent 202 - 204 degrees, but the group's boiler? it's WAY low. Granted, I'm not using the best thermometer in the world, but with an empty (and fully heated machine!) portafilter that's been in there for a good hour, the temp of water coming out of the group is at MOST 175, and that's with the VII set at 95 degrees.

I've scoured the board and read the friendly manual - what could be wrong?

All the best, gang, and thanks for the help!

bo

[Niko]

Those numbers sound kind of OK to me, the temps are much higher at the group vs.what it coming out after it leaves the group. Same goes for the steam boiler, it's much hotter in it vs. when it hits a cup or pitcher (or anything you place it in).
Now as far as your espresso tasting kind of "not" right, I'd trust your taste buds more than anything and it's safe to assume that the group temp might be off a couple of degrees.
Did you try at least 2-3 warming flushes before you pulled a shot? - I assume you did, otherwise you wouldn't mention the not-so-good espresso taste.
Is the coffee tasting bitter or sour? Too cool, too hot?
Can you shoot some video and post a link to the clip to show us the pours you are getting?

[chas]

What is your temp offset currently set to? Until you get the Scace you might just stick with 0C. Of course if it is set to -1C or -2C then CC may have already set it?