Why Mini Group Pressure Needle Vibrates

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chas
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Why Mini Group Pressure Needle Vibrates

Post by chas »

Thanks to all the Mini owners on the forum that have been educating me in its finer points and the posting of the link to the LaSpaz parts catalog with the exploded diagrams, it finally dawned on me why the Mini PF pressure gauge needle vibrates during a shot.

LaSpaziale uses the same mechanical part used for the expansion valve in the VI and VII to regulate group pressure in the Mini. In the VI and VII this part has the group pressure on it and is set to dump to the drip tray if boiler pressure exceeds 12 bar. In the Mini this part is actual in-line with a tube that goes from the output of the pump to the input of the pump and is set to 9bar (or whatever group pressure you set it at).

Inside that valve is a heavy duty spring with a rubber disk on the end which pushes against the end of a metal tube. This keeps the valve closed until water pressure overcomes the spring tension forcing it open and allowing water to pass.

Consider how this acts when pulling a shot with the Mini. Pressure builds from the pump until it exceeds 9bar, then the valve opens. When it opens and water flows through it, the pressure is reduced and the valve shuts. Immediately the pressure exceeds 9bar and the valve opens again. This process repeats during the entire shot. You see this as the vibration of the needle in the group pressure gauge. To me this means that the minimum and maximum needle readings when it is vibrating are real pressure changes seen at the output of the pump. I would think you'd want the average pressure to be 9bar which means you should set the pressure so that the needle vibrates evenly around 9bar. The pressure gauge reads much closer to the pump than to the group head. With luck the additional plumbing has a dampening effect on this pressure vibration by the time it gets to the puck.

I think there are two take aways from this:
  • - Set group pressure so that the reading you want is the mid-vibrate needle position when pulling at shot
  • - The constant opening and closing of the valve is going to wear the rubber disk at the end of the spring MUCH faster than in the VI/VII. The next time you order a new group gasket or any other items from Chris Coffee, consider tacking a couple of those rubber disks onto your order(part #291 from the LaSpaz catalog)
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
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Endo

Re: Why Mini Group Pressure Needle Vibrates

Post by Endo »

Yes. This is how most vibe pump machines work. Only the cheap machines will have no expansion valve. All my machines (Silvia, Anita, Mini) have worked this way. In my other vibe machines, the bypass water actually goes back to the resevoir. That's why there are two silicone tubes in the tank (you can even watch the flow return if you like).

The expansion valve is a “governor” for the vibe pump. It limits its maximum output, but the puck resistance determines the minimum brew pressure. The brew gauge indicates if you have a fine enough grind to produce enough resistance for a proper extraction (between 8.5 and 10 bar).

The good machines like the Mini Vivaldi and Quickmill machines will have higher quality expansion valves with replaceable seats. The seat is a standard $5 part at Chris Coffee. Although, I have never had to replace one, I figure I would need to every 5 years or so (simple routine maintenance).

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... nvalveseat

Apparently they get hard and brittle when they go bad and you'll get a "squeal" or "chirping" noise when they wear and your brew pressure will start to wander. (One of the reasons I wish I had a brew gauge on my Mini mk1).

I'm pretty sure any of these valve "pulses" seen on the gauge are dampened out by the time they make it back up the pipe, into the brew boiler and out to the brew head (affecting shot quality). I can't really verify this since when I check my pressure using my PF gauge, the brew flow is completely blocked so I assume the expansion valve would be constantly opened and not pulsing the way it does to balance the brew pressure during a normal shot.

A good brew gauge would be liquid filled and get rid of this vibration. I might get this type if I decide to add a brew gauge (rather than the cheap mk2 dual monometer).

And by the way, in case you're interested.....here's a photo of what a "worn" expansion valve seat looks like:
Worn Expansion Valve Seat
Worn Expansion Valve Seat
seat.jpg (21.21 KiB) Viewed 4228 times
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