My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Please keep posts in this forum to discussion on preinfusion applicable to the Progressive Preinfusion option.
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Niko
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My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by Niko » Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:15 pm

After a long night battle my S1 finally has the little-chamber-that-could... :lol:
Three things I learned:
1. Never start a project past 2 AM :roll:
2. Super Glue is amazing on Vivaldi side panels :oops:
3. A simple 15 minute job can turn into 45 thanks to the side panels.

I did NOT remove the side panels, it just happened to make my night when the nuts started to drop :roll:

So after cursing and spitting (Mediterranean style) at the S1 for a while, the side panels got so scared that they installed themselves. Upon installing it, I quickly fired up the Spaz to test for leaks and reassembled it. The funniest part was dropping a nut in the machine, it simply disappeared and then anger appeared in a way that result in the Vivaldi being picked up like a 5lb paperweight and shaken out of it's misery until it spat out the missing nut :lol:
and then...
it happened again 2 more times :lol:

The preinfusion hasn't changed things much, the pump still fires once the buttons are pushed and the sounds are pretty much the same. I almost notice no difference other than the shot taking a little longer to appear out of the PF :dontknow:
This is a good thing, I like it :thumbright:
Now I wish I had a dual manometer so I can watch the pressure build up.

Chas, do you remember watching your manometer when this chamber thingy was installed on your machine? Did it do nothing with a blank shot with no PF loaded? I assume it needs a coffee puck or blind basket to build the pressure up....


*disclaimer: :D
I am not lame with the side panels.
For some odd reason, the Vivaldi S1 does not get along with me on this. My VII side panels are the easiest things to install!
La Spaz VII (with timer) S5 Steam Arm & Passive Pre-Infusion, Mazzer Mini E Type B, MACAP MC4 Doserless,
MACAP Autotamper, 3 Thor tampers, Espro convex & CoffeeLabs tamper.
Scace Device, Alessi steam pitchers, Motta Steam pitcher, etc..

La Spaz S1 S5 Steam Arm w/ progressive preinfusion, Compak K3 Touch Doserless, Espro flat tamp
Hottop P, Behmor, iRoast2 and Gene Cafe

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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by Cliff » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:18 am

Niko, I have the mini but if there is no coffee in the basket you will not notice any change in the shot.

Now load that PF up and enjoy. Sound like you need it. :P
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Niko
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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by Niko » Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:53 pm

Cliff wrote:Now load that PF up and enjoy. Sound like you need it. :P
I just had 4 shots! :P
...forgot the triple baskets at the other house :oops:

I am rather enjoying this BIG TIME on the good 'ol S1, the machine is a champ and it's lookin real good with the NoBurn arm right now :wink:
If you told me two years ago that my old S1 would have a NoBurn arm and preinfusion, I would of said you're full of it. Look at us now :drunken:

I have yet to smack the Scace on the old S1 but I have noticed that the grind settings didn't need changing at all. I can safely say this because I'm using the MACAP auto (table top) tamper so there's no change in tamping at all.
The shots are amazing! Not that they weren't before but I picked up some flavor that was never there in this bean before. Trust me, I KNOW this bean - after roasting 60 lbs of it in the past year I think the taste is embedded in my brain :D I'm assuming it's a coincidence for know but there's definitely some (good) changes since the machines got preinfusion.
La Spaz VII (with timer) S5 Steam Arm & Passive Pre-Infusion, Mazzer Mini E Type B, MACAP MC4 Doserless,
MACAP Autotamper, 3 Thor tampers, Espro convex & CoffeeLabs tamper.
Scace Device, Alessi steam pitchers, Motta Steam pitcher, etc..

La Spaz S1 S5 Steam Arm w/ progressive preinfusion, Compak K3 Touch Doserless, Espro flat tamp
Hottop P, Behmor, iRoast2 and Gene Cafe

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chas
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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by chas » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:04 pm

Niko wrote: Chas, do you remember watching your manometer when this chamber thingy was installed on your machine? Did it do nothing with a blank shot with no PF loaded? I assume it needs a coffee puck or blind basket to build the pressure up....
Niko, you probably have a PF gauge since you have an S1, right? Use that. It still may not be 100% realistic but it's the closest you're going to get until you get a 53mm Scace II.
Chas
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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by wgaggl » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:27 pm

I haven't posted here for a while, but since I saw Niko's message, I can only second his impression: The original S1 works great with the preinfusion chamber, I really like the results. My wife described the results for a Black Cat as buttery, creamy. Suddenly the Yellow Burbon bean really shows through :lol:

Checking with he PF pressure gauge it takes a few seconds to rise to nominal pressure, just as one would expect (before after purging the air with a few on/off cycles the PF pressure gauge went right to nominal pressure). As Niko said, virtually no difference with grind level. One thing I noticed, if you use volumetric dosing you will need to reprogram that for the increased water debit with the preinfusion chamber.

Wolfgang

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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by wgaggl » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:43 pm

Just wanted to check how you guys (Niko?) like the progressive preinfusion chamber with the S1.

After using it for a while it seems that my shots are shorter (i.e. less volume) with it than before. Setting everything just right and cutting off the shot when it starts blonding like usual (trust me, I know that part :grin: ), the ideal combination of parameters gets me less volume in the cup than before. Anyone noticed something like that? Otherwise it would be changes to Intelli BlackCat...

I would do comparative testing if it wouldn't be so much effort taking the machine apart to remove the preinfusion chamber.

Thanks,

Wolfgang

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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by Niko » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:27 pm

Hey Wolfgang!
Nice to see a post from one of the "original six" on this forum :grin:
(...it's also a hockey term for the original six teams in NHL).

I can't reiterate enough how much I really love the progressive preinfusion on the original S1. It's a totally different machine to me ever since the chamber was installed. Your last statement is the only drawback it has, you can't turn it off for comparisons. I haven't really noticed the volume difference before but now that I've read your post, I'll see if I notice a difference on my VII - same machine, right? I'll just turn off the P/i and make a comparison of the same beans being extracted. One really nice thing I noticed with the machines is that I've been enjoying a really, really, really nice roast earlier this week and I was hoping to repeat the results when I returned to the VII (I alternate machines :grin: ). At first I wasn't getting exact flavors but then I noticed a key thing, the S1 has the P/i permanently set at 5 seconds so I dialed in the same 5 seconds and 30 psi on the VII and BAM! - The espresso was dead on with the other S1 ;-)

3 hrs later and I still taste this awesome coffee 8)
La Spaz VII (with timer) S5 Steam Arm & Passive Pre-Infusion, Mazzer Mini E Type B, MACAP MC4 Doserless,
MACAP Autotamper, 3 Thor tampers, Espro convex & CoffeeLabs tamper.
Scace Device, Alessi steam pitchers, Motta Steam pitcher, etc..

La Spaz S1 S5 Steam Arm w/ progressive preinfusion, Compak K3 Touch Doserless, Espro flat tamp
Hottop P, Behmor, iRoast2 and Gene Cafe

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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by chas » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:45 pm

Niko wrote:
3 hrs later and I still taste this awesome coffee 8)
Is it that Balsamic Vinegar aftertaste? :twisted:
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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by JohnB » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:30 pm

chas wrote: Is it that Balsamic Vinegar aftertaste? :twisted:
With just a hint of battery acid??? :lol:
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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by JohnB » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:40 pm

Looking at the install pics it seems that you could fabricate a new connector pipe with a small loop that could incorporate a small brass shut off block. You'd need a flair tool to make the new pipe but there is space for it between the group & hot water tap. Then you'd just have to drop the front cover to turn it off & on. Placing a small electric solenoid shut off in line would be the ideal set up then you could just throw an external switch.
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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by Niko » Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:34 pm

JohnB wrote:Looking at the install pics it seems that you could fabricate a new connector pipe with a small loop that could incorporate a small brass shut off block. You'd need a flair tool to make the new pipe but there is space for it between the group & hot water tap. Then you'd just have to drop the front cover to turn it off & on. Placing a small electric solenoid shut off in line would be the ideal set up then you could just throw an external switch.
I still have my boxes for the VII, just give a shipping address so I can send you the old S1 for this fabrication :grin:
JohnB wrote:
chas wrote: Is it that Balsamic Vinegar aftertaste? :twisted:
With just a hint of battery acid??? :lol:
:lol: :lol:
And no, it wasn't the Panama this time! :lol:
Boy you guys have a good memory.
...must be all the coffee you consume.
La Spaz VII (with timer) S5 Steam Arm & Passive Pre-Infusion, Mazzer Mini E Type B, MACAP MC4 Doserless,
MACAP Autotamper, 3 Thor tampers, Espro convex & CoffeeLabs tamper.
Scace Device, Alessi steam pitchers, Motta Steam pitcher, etc..

La Spaz S1 S5 Steam Arm w/ progressive preinfusion, Compak K3 Touch Doserless, Espro flat tamp
Hottop P, Behmor, iRoast2 and Gene Cafe

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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by JohnB » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:13 pm

JohnB wrote:Looking at the install pics it seems that you could fabricate a new connector pipe with a small loop that could incorporate a small brass shut off block. You'd need a flair tool to make the new pipe but there is space for it between the group & hot water tap. Then you'd just have to drop the front cover to turn it off & on. Placing a small electric solenoid shut off in line would be the ideal set up then you could just throw an external switch.

"I still have my boxes for the VII, just give a shipping address so I can send you the old S1 for this fabrication :grin: "


Actually a very simple & slick answer would be to install one of these inline between the chamber & the take off point. Run a harness from the solenoid to where ever you want the switch & back to your power source.
http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... enoidvalve
Speedster/Bosco Sorrento/ K10WBC/K30/Bunnzilla
KvdW/Pullman/RB Tampers
Hario NCA 3 & 5s/Wooden Neck Dripper/Buono
Zassenhaus Knee Mill
Modded Hottop B

Barry

Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by Barry » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:47 pm

So while I have noticed the shorter duration for pulling a shot, I may not have the most sophisticated pallet because 3 monthis after installation, I notice absolutely no difference in the taste of my shots post preinfusion vs. pre preinfusion.

Barry

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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by wgaggl » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:18 am

Barry wrote:So while I have noticed the shorter duration for pulling a shot, I may not have the most sophisticated pallet because 3 monthis after installation, I notice absolutely no difference in the taste of my shots post preinfusion vs. pre preinfusion.
Barry
Barry,

I posted a message earlier in this thread, asking if anyone noticed that the resulting shots are less in volume. As I mentioned there I did notice "shorter" volumes. Did you only notice shorter duration or also smaller resulting volumes (assuming cutting off the flow at the same "blonding" criteria...)?

Thanks,
Wolfgang

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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by Niko » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:24 pm

Hey Wolfgang,

I paid more attention to my shots on the S1 for the last week or so but I haven't noticed any difference in volume (or shot duration times). I did turn off the P/i on the VII and then used the same exact bean on the old S1 and I still had the same volume in the end. I time every shot on both machines and ever since the P/i installations, I start the timer as soon as I see coffee coming out of the PF's (both bottomless).
La Spaz VII (with timer) S5 Steam Arm & Passive Pre-Infusion, Mazzer Mini E Type B, MACAP MC4 Doserless,
MACAP Autotamper, 3 Thor tampers, Espro convex & CoffeeLabs tamper.
Scace Device, Alessi steam pitchers, Motta Steam pitcher, etc..

La Spaz S1 S5 Steam Arm w/ progressive preinfusion, Compak K3 Touch Doserless, Espro flat tamp
Hottop P, Behmor, iRoast2 and Gene Cafe

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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by Weska » Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:21 am

JohnB wrote: Actually a very simple & slick answer would be to install one of these inline between the chamber & the take off point. Run a harness from the solenoid to where ever you want the switch & back to your power source.
http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... enoidvalve
That is one sweet suggestion, JohnB. You have me actually thinking about it. Fifty bucks plus electricals, eh? Hmmm.

Maybe next time I order something from Chris...
Vivaldi S1 pre-II
MACAP M4 doser
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(all euro-sourced, 220v)
Reg and Torr tampers
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Re: My old S1 Finally Has Preinfusion

Post by Weska » Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:29 am

Speaking to another theme in this thread, I don't notice a volume difference with pre-infusion. Of course, I might not since I can't switch it on and off or switch machines with differing setups. Then I tend to go with my volumetric doser's idea of what volume should be.

And that brings up one difference that I'm not really sure about, but I'll throw it in here for fun. Maybe I see that with pre-infusion I get less but more durable crema. I always pour my espressos into a Bodum double-walled cup, and I might just be seeing that effect. Or I might be dreaming.
Vivaldi S1 pre-II
MACAP M4 doser
Gene Cafe roaster
(all euro-sourced, 220v)
Reg and Torr tampers
Espresso Gear Click Mat

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