The S1 Cafe - Helping Your Espresso Dreams Become Reality

I just ordered this from Visions Espresso in the 20 oz version - looks good. Will give you guys an assessment once I get it and use it.

http://visionsespresso.com/cart.php?m=s ... arch=espro

the website:
http://www.espro.ca/toroid.php

Wow, that's a strange looking pitcher!
I like it

Niko wrote:Wow, that's a strange looking pitcher!
I like it

Forgot to mention that Coffeegeek wrote a blurb on it:

http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/showrepo ... 2007/14:15

Mine will be here on the 13th. I just LOVE that narrow spout.

Mine came last night... I'll give it a whirl this morning and report back. :D

hlsheppard wrote:Mine came last night... I'll give it a whirl this morning and report back. :D

That's great! I like mine - but I think there's a bit of a learning curve. I'm not getting the microfoam I want to achieve (going by the directions of the manual). Had a few good results - but they weren't immediate - see my pride page commentary and latte art results. Looking forward to your report!

There most definitely *is* a learning curve. With me still adjusting to the no-burn steam arm, this extra variable may be too much to iron out quickly...

The extra length of the steam arm prevents me from holding the pitcher straight (or my other pitchers, for that matter). Therefore, it doesn't swirl like the design is telling me.

All in all - not BAD results, but hopefully will get better... :?

Mine came yesterday and it's a winner for sure.
I'm using the new smaller four hole tip from Chris and the microfoam is more consistent from top to bottom then from any of my other 20 oz pitchers.

mdreuben,
That's a good new for me!
I'm ready to "fire up" mine this weekend.
Cafesp
*mine came from Chris. You must call cause it's not on website!

I'm expecting one any day now myself!

Now I feel left out...

Am I the only one using Alessi pitchers?

[quote="Niko"]Now I feel left out...

Am I the only one using Alessi pitchers?
Nikko,
Don't feel bad!, send me your Used one (Alessi), I send you Brand New Toroid.
My honest decent offer!
Cafesp

Cafesp wrote: Don't feel bad!, send me your Used one (Alessi), I send you Brand New Toroid.
My honest decent offer!
Cafesp

Which one would you like? :P

Niko wrote:

Cafesp wrote: Don't feel bad!, send me your Used one (Alessi), I send you Brand New Toroid.
My honest decent offer!
Cafesp

Which one would you like? :P

Fainted out after coming back from Intelligentsia Coffee house in Silver Lake to pick up some Black Cat.( Only preview one Ristretto and one Cafe Latte)
If, only if you got extra!
Whichever you got extra, Nikko, send me one! ( now i recall you even got one extra V !!!)
Email me where to send, i email you back.
Fair and square?
Happy New Year
Nathan

Cafesp wrote: ( now i recall you even got one extra V !!!)

You recalled correctly :D
...along with two 17oz Alessis with two matching 25oz's (gotta' have the extra long steam arm for these)


oh, a and lonely 'ol Europa (Motta) 24oz pitcher.

OK - so here's my take so far on this pitcher: I tried for a week or so with my no-burn steam arm (plenty long enough but a strange angle). I didn't have the best results, so I changed the arm back to the "normal" arm but with the new 4 hole top...

Still not good results!! It seems like the new arm isn't long enough to reach the bottom of the pitcher to really get the "toroid swirl" going. Nowhere near as good as the no-burn arm was, in that department.

The pitcher is obviously well-made, but my latte art has been stinking! WAY too many bubbles (albeit small ones).

I LOVE the narrow pour spout, though...

Sounds like the S5 arm is for you!
Long enough for most pitchers and the bend is a better shape as well
Once I put put this arm on my VII, the others just didn't feel right...the stock arm and the No Burn.

I actually think my arm *is* the S5 arm...

My S1 was one of the later models. Didn't I read on here somewhere that later S1's came with those??

I see Chris has them for sale separately on his site, so maybe I'm smokin' something again...

I'll try and post some measurements of the S5 arm so you can see if it's the same one that shipped with your unit.
I thought Chas had posted that some of the earlier S1's had the (old original) arms replaced with the S5 version.

I just got my Toroid pitcher and that S5 arm with that pitcher is just the ticket! Is easily reaches the bottom.

Niko, is correct about the S5 arm. When Chris realized that the original S1 arm wasn't cutting it, he offered all the current owners a replacement arm which we know know is the S5 arm. However, when the next batch of S1's actually starting being shipped with a new steam arm, it was one specifically designed for the S1 which is shorter than the S5 arm. That shorter one is the one which also ships with the V2. (I still have no idea why then decided to use a shorter arm. I think the S5 arm is PERFECT for the S1/V2/Mini V2.)

The later you purchased your S1 after mid-2004 the more likely you received the short arm. I ordered my original S1 on January 10, 2004 which was about 6 weeks after Chris started selling them!

I'm not sure where I posted the pic comparing the steam arms, so I'll post it again. Niko also did a video showing the No Burn vs "S1" steam arms. After the No Burn comparison he shows the S1 and S5 arms together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1GRAarI ... re=related

I just brought home my new V2 which is from the most recent shipment (late Dec.). The length of the arm from the top of the bend at the rubber cover to the end of the nozzle is 4". How much longer is the S5 arm?

JohnB wrote:How much longer is the S5 arm?

One inch.
And it makes a huge difference.

Niko,
A big WHY?
Just b/c it could reach down to the pitcher's bottom?

Cafesp

You need that extra reach in order to "roll" the milk end over end, helps to gently crush the lager bubbles.
The longer reach also makes the larger pitchers usable on the S1.
I know it doesn't seem like a big difference but you'd instantly realize a big difference when you actually use it.
I thought the same thing like you at first, after the first time using the longer arm - I never went back the shorter one.

Niko wrote:You need that extra reach in order to "roll" the milk end over end, helps to gently crush the lager bubbles.
The longer reach also makes the larger pitchers usable on the S1.
I know it doesn't seem like a big difference but you'd instantly realize a big difference when you actually use it.
I thought the same thing like you at first, after the first time using the longer arm - I never went back the shorter one.

I second that!

So far the stock arm is working fine in my 20oz Pro Barista pitcher but I'm sure I'll end up trying the S5 sooner or later.

Hey Niko,
Sound like you are the very experienced but pricy counsel!
Everytime I read your post, it costs me some money!!!
Extra $35 will be sent to Chris for the longer S5 arm!
Digital caliper! ???$$$
And after your review for one long sought-after digital scale posted; it gonna to cost 3 digits, right!
Thanks.. anyway... for your hard work.

Cafesp

...damn,
I should've been in sales

Cafesp wrote: Digital caliper! ???$$$

How 'bout a triple?

You are in sales, Niko. You just haven't worked out how to turn commissions on them.

:P

Well, I'm on a money spending hiatus for a bit, so I slapped my no-burn arm back on and had pretty good results out of the gate with this pitcher.

Although I've only had my S1 for approx. 2 1/2 years, I don't believe I have the S5 arm (I though I did... ).

I'll probably end up buying is sooner or later, though!

Blame Niko for that!
hlsheppard,
You already got good result with Toroid picher, why need to get S5 wand? no-burn arm steam wand still not long enough?
By the way, if i need to get only one steam wand, which one? S5 or No-burn st. one.
Thanks, Have a good day.

Cafesp

Cafesp wrote:By the way, if i need to get only one steam wand, which one? S5 or No-burn st. one.
Thanks, Have a good day.

Cafesp

I have all three, original S1, S5 and the No-burn, and i have to say that the one that gets the most use is the S5 wand.

Eric

Thanks EriC,
Skipping a few trips to Intelligentsia coffee house, I could get one S5 easily; but for Versalab M3 and Hottop, I think it's easier for me to ask you guys than to ask my wife at this time!!!
I'm so content and graceful what I got- new gears and esp. NEW FRIENDS all around the ONE WORLD.
Thanks for everythings

Nathan

Cafesp wrote:Blame Niko for that!
hlsheppard,
You already got good result with Toroid picher, why need to get S5 wand? no-burn arm steam wand still not long enough?
By the way, if i need to get only one steam wand, which one? S5 or No-burn st. one.
Thanks, Have a good day.

Cafesp

First off - there is ALWAYS a search for perfection. There is no stopping if it's only "good."

Second - there is NO "only buying one" around here! You buy them all and switch back and forth to keep from being bored! :P

hlsheppard wrote:
First off - there is ALWAYS a search for perfection. There is no stopping if it's only "good."

Second - there is NO "only buying one" around here! You buy them all and switch back and forth to keep from being bored! :P

Thanks for waking me up!

Cafesp wrote:Blame Niko for that!

Are you guys going to show up with torches and pitchforks?

...or better yet roasters and pitchers


Nathan, you know you'll save money in the long run with a Hottop.

Nathan, forget about that Niko guy, save your money and don't listen to him

Don't listen to reason! - Life's too short, spend all money on coffee stuff

I was ordering some JG fittings from CC today so I said WTH & ordered the S5 arm. I was making very nice micro foam with whole milk & soy with the stock arm but it was a little awkward getting down near the bottom. What's another $35 at this point!

I installed the new S5 wand tonight, hopefully with all the pieces in the correct order. I didn't realize just how spring loaded the wand was until it & several pieces went flying by my face as I undid the last thread on the nut. I found 1 spring & 1 brass fitting. Was there anything else in there? The new wand is on and working so I assume I got everything back in the correct order. The tip on the S5 has much larger holes then the stock wand. Which tip have you guys found to work best with the S5?

Actually the tube itself unscrews right below the spring loaded fitting so when you swap between the S1 and S5 arms you don't even need to mess with the spring loaded part.

The existing tips don't give any different results on either arm. The difference is purely relative to the arm allowing you to get closer to the bottom of the pitcher.

It sounds like you must have gotten the original 4 hole tip. The criticisms of that tip are: 1) steams too fast to be able to finesse the result 2)more difficult to obtain good microfoam rather than macrofoam. The smaller 4 hole tip is more forgiving in both respects.

Looking at the wand this morning I see where you are talking about unscrewing it. The S5 came complete with the large brass nut so that is where I changed it. I'll swap back & forth between the two 4 hole tips & see which one I like better. I made nice foam with the new tip last night. By Macrofoam are you referring to the large air bubbles we try to avoid or do I need to find my calipers to tell the difference. :)

chas wrote:The existing tips don't give any different results on either arm. The difference is purely relative to the arm allowing you to get closer to the bottom of the pitcher.

The angle of the lower bend in the arm is also different. The angle on the shorter of the two arms is somewhat less than 90 degrees whereas the longer of the two has a 90-degree angle.

I was never able to discern that the angle made much difference. When I started using the V2 with the shorter arm that was the first thing I noticed. However, I didn't even realize that there was more different about the steam arms than their length until I laid them side to side for a photograph.

Well, I went back to Chris' site and splurged on the S5 arm (also the bumper knock box and tamp stand).

I affixed the new 4 hole tip and went nuts...

All I can say is you guys are RIGHT. That extra length is like night and day with the Toroid pitcher... :D

Funny - with the new S5 arm it moves around almost too loose. I have installed the spring and spring seat, etc - but it's still WAY easier to move that the no-burn or the "normal" arm. Anyone else have this happen?

Not sure why the S5 arm is so loose. However, as I noted in another post within the last week, the tube part of both the S1 and S5 steam arms unscrew just below the swivel part. You can alway swap the S1 and S5 tubes and use the S1 swivel to get a tighter connection.

My S5 arm was looser then the stock arm after the swap also. Not flopping around loose but definitely not as snug as the stock one.

JohnB wrote:My S5 arm was looser then the stock arm after the swap also. Not flopping around loose but definitely not as snug as the stock one.

That's exactly it, John. I'm wondering if it's due to the increased weight and/or the increased size of the "ball" end of the arm. Maybe larger due to being for a commercial machine?

No matter, I suppose. No leaks and it works like a charm.

Mine was loose in the beginning, now it's tightened back to normal like the stock arm.
:?

Glad you made it to the dark side, Howard