Flat vs. Convex Tamper

[BobG]

I was wondering if anyone has compared using a flat 53 mm tamper like a Reg Barber and then tried a convex 53 mm tamper to see if the pours or shot quality differs?

I have a 53 mm Reg Flat that I bought from Chris' Coffee, but I am thinking that a more textbook type pour might be achieved with a convex tamper. One of Schomer's articles seems to indicate that the quality of pours is more consistent with a convex tamper.

Bob

[bobroseman]

I have one of each. They are very different. I think the convex seals the edges with less pressure and allows more coffee to fill the basket by making the center lower than the side, thus allowing room for the shower screen bolt head.

I like the heft and feel of the flat tamper though.

I switch back and forth. I can't make up my mind.

Bob

[chas]

I have one of each. They are very different. I think the convex seals the edges with less pressure and allows more coffee to fill the basket by making the center lower than the side, thus allowing room for the shower screen bolt head.

I like the heft and feel of the flat tamper though.

I switch back and forth. I can't make up my mind.

Bob

I have one of each, too. In my case I like the heft and feel of the convex tamper because it's all stainless. My flat one is a Reg Barber with a Rosewood handle.

[bobroseman]

I had three but sold the Reg Barber for $25 since I liked it least.

Bob

[BobG]

What is the brand of the Convex Tamper that you like?

Bob

[bobroseman]

Expressivo
Presso Barista - Plain

here http://www.wholelattelove.com/tampers.cfm

[bobroseman]

here's my other one




at

http://www.wholelattelove.com/WLL/lavatamp_pross.cfm

[BobG]

Thanks very much for the info. It looks like WLL does not have the all stainless in 53 mm (just 57 mm). I am assuming you have a 53 mm one?

Thanks,
Bob

[bobroseman]

Yes it is a 53mm. I think that it came from Chris' Coffee.

Bob

[chas]

Chris Coffee has this one with flat bottom only for $35. Espresso Parts in Seattle has both the flat and convex versions of the same tamper for $32.

http://www.espressoparts.com/index.php/ ... 000/3006SS

You can also get just the bottom disk part from them. So you can buy a convex tamper version for $32, then also get just the flat bottom 53mm disk for another $18 and be able to convert it back and forth. That's what I have.

http://www.espressoparts.com/index.php/ ... 1000/3053A

[BobG]

Thanks! I'll go place my order -- I have bought from them before.

[chas]

Whoops, I screwed up. Should have given you this link to the stainless steel base rather than the one to the aluminum base:

http://www.espressoparts.com/index.php/ ... 1000/3053S

[BobG]

Thanks -- I noticed it though and ordered stainless steel.

[admin]

I decided to throw caution to the wind and spring for a new Reg Barber 54mm convex tamper. I've noticed a fair gap around my 53mm tamper so I'm hoping that the 54mm will a) fit and b) give a more perfect tamp. Probably be a couple of weeks before it arrives from Vancouver, BC. I'll report back after I get it and play with it a few times.

BTW: in case you haven't checked out http://www.regbarber.com, you should. He's got flat and convex tampers in any size you want down to the tenth of a mm. I could have purchased a 53.8mm if I wanted. I just hope I don't find out that I should have!

[bobroseman]

I will be surprised if it fits. My 53mm tamps are really 52.5mm and the baskets are really 53.5mm. This gives about 1 mm of clearance.

Bob

[Johan Lindroos]

Expressivo
Presso Barista - Plain

here http://www.wholelattelove.com/tampers.cfm

That is the tamper I also use! I kind of like it. Although I have not used others.

I think it is designed in Sweden actually.

[bobroseman]

I keep going back and forth. I like both of them. It's like an itch. A little scratching is pleasurable, but too much becomes irksome. After awhile, I simply have the urge to switch for awhile.

Bob

[wgaggl]

Expressivo
Presso Barista - Plain

here http://www.wholelattelove.com/tampers.cfm

This is one great tamper! I had used a RB flat tamper previously and very often had some channeling at the rim of the basket. Not anymore! I also like the feel of the tamper. I just feel sad for my RB sitting in the drawer, but I guess every Barista needs a backup tamper

[chas]

After playing around with the 54mm for a while, it is too snug. I'm having Reg ship me a 53.5mm base. I think that will be perfect. We'll see.

[Johan Lindroos]

I was wondering if anyone has compared using a flat 53 mm tamper like a Reg Barber and then tried a convex 53 mm tamper to see if the pours or shot quality differs?

I have a 53 mm Reg Flat that I bought from Chris' Coffee, but I am thinking that a more textbook type pour might be achieved with a convex tamper. One of Schomer's articles seems to indicate that the quality of pours is more consistent with a convex tamper.

Bob

To go back to your original subject, I have som idaes about it. I use mostly the portafilter for single baskets on my Wega Miniwega. But the ideas can fit to any machine aswell. Everybody knows how difficult it is to tamp for single baskets, huh? (often channeling near the rim)

Well, some experimentation led to this way of tamping:

1. First I use a very convex tamper which is mounted on my borrowed large Brasilia grinder. Not so much pressure is used, just enough that the grinded coffe is much deeper in the middle than at the rim. Grinded coffe spreads more to the rim.

2. Then I use the tamper seen on picture in this thread, which has just a slight convex form.

3. What happens is that when the second tamper i sapplied, is that more packing is applied around the rim which makes it much more resistant to channeling problems.

4. I have noticed that chenneling problems are not at all as apparent for double baskets, so this technique is probably not necessary for those.


Try it if you have both a very conex tamper and a flatter one!

[chas]

I was going to post this over where I mentioned going "crotchless" but it also seems like a good fit here. I've seen a thread on ac from those who have gone crotchless before. With a normal unchopped PF you can believe you have no channeling based on checking the condition of the puck after pulling a shot. However, you are probably still "living in sin".

My first crotchless shot several attempts results in all kinds of high pressure coffee jets shooting out in random directions. Then I saw the ac posts from folks saying the resolution they found was using the "four quadrant" tamp which has been discussed on ac periodically over the years. In order to do this right you need a thin tamper about 49 or 50mm; ie. just like the POS tamper that ships with the S1 (and most over espresso machines.) Then use a normal full size piston tamper to press down and twist to polish it off.

However, this still wasn't enough until I also switched the two shower screens from the modified arrangment I've been using for months (as documented on my S1 site) back to the default factory configuration. With the above mods to my process the shots are perfect - one nice slow stream from the center.

[wgaggl]

However, this still wasn't enough until I also switched the two shower screens from the modified arrangment I've been using for months (as documented on my S1 site) back to the default factory configuration. With the above mods to my process the shots are perfect - one nice slow stream from the center.

Wow, that sounds like you have done real experimenting.

Just to clarify for me: When you say default factory configuration you mean the slightly thicker shower disk?

[chas]

No, the thinner disk is the factory configuration now, at least I think it is. I meant the factory configuration for the two shower screens with the smaller one under the larger one rather than the smaller one upside down on top of the larger one.

[barjohn]

Two questions:
1. I don't follow your tamping technique can you explain?
2. Have you seen or tried the new Click n Tamp?

http://www.home-espresso.com/product/3006CL

[Johan Lindroos]

BarJohn, are you asking me or Chas?

[chas]

From Alt.Coffee:

Carl Staub of Agtron and others have found that the standard tamp only
compresses a layer of coffee in the top of the basket. What Staub is
apparently now recommending is a four-quadrant tamp with a tamper about 1/4" smaller than the basket. In other words the drill goes like this:

Fill and level carefully. I, and others with chopped portafiliters,
have found distribution to be a lot more important than previously
thought. Tamp firmly next to the rim in four equidistant places. I'm
guessing that this moves the coffee at the edge of the tamped zone
enough to compress it farther down the cake. Then, since I happen to
have both tampers sitting there, I do a final tamp and polish with the
fitting tamper; I probably don't have to. At any rate, in my case, it
does taste better than either the traditional tamp or a multi-layer one
I used to do. It turns out that the slight tap you often see is
contraindicated: it's too easy to loosen the attachment of cake to
basket wall and get channeling as a result.

[barjohn]

I was asking Chas and will try his new method.

[wgaggl]

I observed some channeling next to the screw in the middle if filling too much coffee into the PF. Seems to me the screw is distorting the flow patterns. When the tamped coffee was touching the screw, I observed a higher occurence of channeling near the middle.
Tapping: I only tap once very lightly. Tapping definitely has an impact on channeling next to the rim of the basket. Schomer also writes about that. If packing lightly (less 20lb) the first time, then tapping lightly once, and packing filmly (greater 30lb) the second time, I usually don't have channeling near the rim with the convex tamper and a seasoned PF.

Wolfgang

[BobG]

Chas,

Just wondered if you had gotten your 53.5 mm Tamper Base back from Reg Barber and if it fit the double basket properly?

Thanks,
Bob

[chas]

I never heard back from Reg on how to fulfill my tamper mod request. In the mean time I went with the naked portafilter which has me tamping with the POS plastic tamper than came with the machine.

[bobroseman]

Chas,

I made myself a naked PF and found the following technique to work well to eliminate channeling.

1. fill the basket overfull
2. tap it vertically on a mat lightly to settle grounds a bit
3. using a three inch plastic spatula distribute coffee evenly (I prefer this to using my little finger as it eliminates my tendency to scoop out the center with my finger.
4. Using the tamper shown in the first post of this thread I "wobble" or "walk" it around the edge of the coffee puck
5. then I tamp firmly

no horizontal tap per your earlier post

I also have a little mirror to view each shot as it pours.

Bob

[chas]

I see that Chris has those all wooden Thor tampers now in 53mm. That would make a nice stocking stuffer.

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... rtletamper

He also has a neat looking all purpose espresso machine tool which would look great right next to that tamper.

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... coffeetool

For me, just the tool is on my list. I don't need another tamper unless I decide to start a collection. Actually those Expressivo tampers look really nice. I think those of you that have them said you purchased them at WLL. However, WLL does seem to have any smaller than 56mm right now.

[bobroseman]

I have one of those on my wish list.

In the fancy vs functional tamper spectrum, I am toward functional. :)

[bobroseman]

It turns out that I'm getting one of Chris' 53.5mm Thor Tampers. Chris says that they are designed to fit the S1 basket "exactly". I will report results back to the group.

Bob

[BobG]

Just a note that Espresso Parts NW also carries the 3 in one tool that Chas mentions above. I don't know if it is on their web site as I bought one a few months ago when I stopped by their store in Olympia, WA.

I generally just make use of the wire brush and use the poker on the end once in a while to make sure the steam holes are all clear. I like the tool.

Bob