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New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:39 pm
by zchpayne
Hello everyone! Before i begin, thank you all for the community and all the posts. It's great knowing there's a swathe of knowledge related to specific machines.
I picked up a broken Vivaldi ii S1 last night off of eBay for £75. The fella that sold it said he had it for 2 or 3 years and that it stopped working the beginning of this month. He had it plumbed in to an incredibly hard water area without any filters and seems to have ignored any and all regular upkeep for those two years.
I'm hoping it's just a case of bad scale build-up and some good ol'fashion descaling will do the trick. I've taken off the cover and done some preliminary cleaning, but man, it's rough. Clean your machines, guys.
I've ordered the gaskets for both boilers and the portafilter as well as a big jug of white vinegar for descaling.
Other than the covers, I haven't taken anything apart. I was hoping for some best practices when removing and descaling the boilers as well as any other areas I should check and consider.
For example, the pressure gauge looks like it sprung a leak and is pretty useless. I'll include the photos, I'm sorry if they hurt you. If you want close ups of any of them, just ask.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:48 pm
by chas
1) You are correct about the pressure gauge. You will need to replace it.
2) The mineral deposits on that backside of the steam boiler are curious since they appear to be running down the side but are not on the lid. It almost looks like the lid might have been a tad loose.
Of course, given all the minerals and the fact that it was used in an area with hard water and not maintained, you should probably remove all the fittings and pull out the steam boiler. Then you can remove the lid and descale it. When you put it back together you can be sure the bolts are tight. There is a gasket that goes in a notch around the edge of the lid that needs to be replaced. Be sure you have the new one on hand before you tackle the boiler.
3) Another place to check for seepage and mineral deposits is the area between the pump and the motor. There is a single Phillips screw to remove from a collar that holds the pump and the motor together. Then only the water in and water out lines bolted to the pump hold it in. There are four bolts through the chassis that hold the motor in place.
When you have both the steam boiler and the motor out of the chassis you will be able to get to all those brown mineral deposits on the bottom of the chassis so you can give that a good cleaning.
With all the above taken care of, there are still a variety of places that may have mineral deposits plus if the steam boiler was really bad you may also need to descale the coffee boiler.
Did the original owner give you any details about what specifically stopped working?
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:24 pm
by zchpayne
chas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:48 pm
1) You are correct about the pressure gauge. You will need to replace it.
Any suggestions on where to find one? I've not been able to find them. (I live in the UK, in case that impacts suggestions).
2) The mineral deposits on that backside of the steam boiler are curious since they appear to be running down the side but are not on the lid. It almost looks like the lid might have been a tad loose.
Of course, given all the minerals and the fact that it was used in an area with hard water and not maintained, you should probably remove all the fittings and pull out the steam boiler. Then you can remove the lid and descale it. When you put it back together you can be sure the bolts are tight. There is a gasket that goes in a notch around the edge of the lid that needs to be replaced. Be sure you have the new one on hand before you tackle the boiler.
That's the plan. I ordered them two days ago and am waiting for them. May take a week or two, but hopefully quicker. I'm naturally a bit impatient, but am trying my best to take it slow and do it correctly.
3) Another place to check for seepage and mineral deposits is the area between the pump and the motor. There is a single Phillips screw to remove from a collar that holds the pump and the motor together. Then only the water in and water out lines bolted to the pump hold it in. There are four bolts through the chassis that hold the motor in place.
Good advice, thank you! I turned it on the side today to clean the group head and found the bracket and bolts you spoke of. I want to be sure I know how to take out the wires and connections before I doing so, but am really thankful you shared that because I need to clean out the chassis.
When you have both the steam boiler and the motor out of the chassis you will be able to get to all those brown mineral deposits on the bottom of the chassis so you can give that a good cleaning.
With all the above taken care of, there are still a variety of places that may have mineral deposits plus if the steam boiler was really bad you may also need to descale the coffee boiler.
I plan to do that, too. I've found a v1 take apart of the coffee boiler, but not a V2. Do you know of any?
Did the original owner give you any details about what specifically stopped working?
He said that the hot water stopped working, then a bit later the coffee stopped working, but he didn't give much more than that.
I took apart the group head to clean that today. (I've ordered a new gasket, dispersion plate, and shower heads). My goodness, please, everyone, do your routine maintenance. Please.
The gasket forgot that it was rubber and was basically fused with the dispersion plate. I had to literally chisel it off, at which point it turned to dust. And the pf's look like they've never been cleaned either. They've been soaking and I think I can salvage them, but I'm not sure.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:48 pm
by mmg
I have just done the same job on a v2, except mine looked way better.
The coffee boiler is quite easy, if done properly, you need to release the finned ring on the back (you can use a pipe wrench or you can use a hammer or lever of some kind on the fins) so that it will unscrew.
But even before that I suggest to unscrew the temperature probe, the central nut if you look at the boiler from the back; at least loosen it.
Then take off the ring and the temperature probe (if not done yet) and pry off the back of the boiler. Do not turn it, there's a pin holding it in position, just pry, maybe with a razor blade if gunk has glued it together.
Then you are done, you can turn the machine with the back up, so that you can fill the boiler with vinegar and let it act.
As the scale will be freed in the boiler and you don't really have a way to rinse it, you may want to get creative (maybe even open some of the other nuts on the boiler and use them as drains) to get it out in order to prevent scale from getting stuck in the valve when you turn on the machine.
Even if that happens a few flushed (and backflushes) will probably help. however the amount of scale in my boiler really muddled the vinegar and i would have been worried to leave that inside.
As a ps, my machine didn't technically need a single new part, but i still ended up replacing several, because of my screw ups or because they were really old, so really do take your time and be patient. It took me three or four weeks with all the deliveries i was waiting for.
For sourcing parts, I stumbled upon gev-online.com, which is based in Italy and seems to have quite a nice range of parts for the vivaldi. I am not sure if they ship to the UK or how easy it is to navigate the site, but I can help with that. There is a lot of choice here in the US, but shipping is usually expensive even domestically.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:08 pm
by chas
Good discussion. I just have one comment. Vinegar is never recommended for use in espresso machines because it's so hard to flush all the vinegar taste out. Food grade citric acid is recommended. There are other possible sources but the easiest may be your local beer supply store or an internet version.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:25 pm
by zchpayne
mmg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:48 pm
I have just done the same job on a v2, except mine looked way better.
The coffee boiler is quite easy, if done properly, you need to release the finned ring on the back (you can use a pipe wrench or you can use a hammer or lever of some kind on the fins) so that it will unscrew.
But even before that I suggest to unscrew the temperature probe, the central nut if you look at the boiler from the back; at least loosen it.
Then take off the ring and the temperature probe (if not done yet) and pry off the back of the boiler. Do not turn it, there's a pin holding it in position, just pry, maybe with a razor blade if gunk has glued it together.
Then you are done, you can turn the machine with the back up, so that you can fill the boiler with vinegar and let it act.
As the scale will be freed in the boiler and you don't really have a way to rinse it, you may want to get creative (maybe even open some of the other nuts on the boiler and use them as drains) to get it out in order to prevent scale from getting stuck in the valve when you turn on the machine.
Even if that happens a few flushed (and backflushes) will probably help. however the amount of scale in my boiler really muddled the vinegar and i would have been worried to leave that inside.
As a ps, my machine didn't technically need a single new part, but i still ended up replacing several, because of my screw ups or because they were really old, so really do take your time and be patient. It took me three or four weeks with all the deliveries i was waiting for.
For sourcing parts, I stumbled upon gev-online.com, which is based in Italy and seems to have quite a nice range of parts for the vivaldi. I am not sure if they ship to the UK or how easy it is to navigate the site, but I can help with that. There is a lot of choice here in the US, but shipping is usually expensive even domestically.
This gives me hope! And thank you very much for the info on the group boiler. I read that there was a pin holding something, but I wasn't sure where or what. Just to make sure I understand, You're saying not to unscrew to the finned ring until I remove the central nut and take out the temperature probe? Is the finned ring related to the back of the boiler or do I need to remove the finned ring to get to back of the boiler? I think I understand, but I don't want to unscrew it and hear a 'Crack!'
I am waiting for the gasket order to ship before taking it apart any further. I know myself and am likely to end up forgetting where what goes when it comes to reassembly if I have to wait too long, even with all the photos I'm taking. And thank you for gev-online recommendation. It looks like I'm unable to register, however, because I'm not a company and they say they don't sell to individuals.
I showed the machine to a friend of mine who works with repairing and maintaining coffee machines and he said that before ever turning it on, replace the pressure relief valve on the boilers, lest they explode. Is there something to that, you think?
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:34 pm
by mmg
zchpayne wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:25 pm
This gives me hope! And thank you very much for the info on the group boiler. I read that there was a pin holding something, but I wasn't sure where or what. Just to make sure I understand, You're saying not to unscrew to the finned ring until I remove the central nut and take out the temperature probe?
Yes that is correct
Is the finned ring related to the back of the boiler or do I need to remove the finned ring to get to back of the boiler? I think I understand, but I don't want to unscrew it and hear a 'Crack!'
You do need to remove it in order to get to the back of the boiler. Turning it will not make the back of the boiler turn, thanks to the infamous pin. I will also admit that I have broken the pin and cannot see how that would be a big deal, as you can rotate it quite precisely to the original position, but I may be mistaken.
I am waiting for the gasket order to ship before taking it apart any further. I know myself and am likely to end up forgetting where what goes when it comes to reassembly if I have to wait too long, even with all the photos I'm taking. And thank you for gev-online recommendation. It looks like I'm unable to register, however, because I'm not a company and they say they don't sell to individuals.
I apologize, I had never tried and did not know. Such a pity because their catalog is quite good.
I showed the machine to a friend of mine who works with repairing and maintaining coffee machines and he said that before ever turning it on, replace the pressure relief valve on the boilers, lest they explode. Is there something to that, you think?
Hm, for the last point, I am not sure. Mine was sold as broken, I just plugged it in and saw that it worked, so I took a gamble and let it heat up, realizing that almost everything was fine. Of course I cannot vouch for the steam release valve, for example, as I have never had the displeasure of having it turn on. I do believe that the vivaldi has a good number of alarms and checks, but of course safety comes first and a pressure vessel of this kind is not fun.
When I reclosed my steam boiled I admit I was quite worried and let it heat up by constantly checking the pressure gauge, as the light turned on (ready) right before the red zone, I felt safe, but I thought the gauge was somewhat a good safety indicator.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:46 pm
by mmg
This could maybe work?
https://nuovaricambi.net/en/product/522 ... ale?pt=301
You'd have to double check. They also ask for company name and such, but "private" is an option, so some kind of personal VAT might be sufficient.
Also I forgot to link this, in case you haven't seen it:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1501
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:08 am
by zchpayne
Thank you very much for that site. It appears to be be a wealth of parts and diagrams. The other forum is also very useful. Really appreciate everything. Once I begin the teardown (hopefully this week, they're supposed to ship Monday, but we'll see) I'll post more photos of the journey.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:07 am
by zchpayne
My order of gaskets has finally shipped, meaning I have begun taking apart the boiler. I started with the steam boiler, and oh my.
It is incredibly bad. The heating element has literally split, which explains why it stopped working. I have not began on the group head boiler yet, but I'm worried that it will mimic the decay of the other one. I need to find a wrench that I can use to open the steam boiler, but hopefully it's in better shape.
It looks like this repair will be much more expensive than originally expected. Does anyone know where to find the elements that ship to the UK?
Please, do preventive maintenance.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:17 am
by chas
If you can't find any other option closer, these guys will ship to the UK. Shipping might be prohibitive since they are literally 1/2 way around the world in Seattle, WA.
https://www.espressoparts.com/la-spazia ... XnEALw_wcB
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:19 am
by chas
BTW: This looks like what might happen if the heater element turned on in a dry boiler. So be sure the water flow is also working correctly after replacing the heater element.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:25 pm
by mmg
You may want to clean the drain of the steam boiler so that you can drain it, it might be useful in later stages.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:32 pm
by chas
Since you're in Europe, you also need to be sure that you get a 220V heater element, too. Both heater elements and all three solenoids are 220V in the models sold in Europe and 115V in the US.
Bottom line: Be sure you order the version that matches your local voltage or matches your machine's other parts.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:37 pm
by mmg
also their 20% black friday off is nice (if you buy something else) and you can have a British Thanksgiving
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:45 pm
by chas
mmg wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:25 pm
You may want to clean the drain of the steam boiler so that you can drain it, it might be useful in later stages.
Good point. Most of the times I have unscrewed the drain plug on the bottom of my LaSpaziale steam boiler nothing came out. I had to stick a screw driver through the hole to break the mineral crust first.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:49 pm
by chas
chas wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:32 pm
Since you're in Europe, you also need to be sure that you get a 220V heater element, too. Both heater elements and all three solenoids are 220V in the models sold in Europe and 115V in the US.
Bottom line: Be sure you order the version that matches your local voltage or matches your machine's other parts.
BTW: As fate would have it the espressoparts.com link I provided is for the 220V steam boiler element. I hadn't noticed that originally!
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:44 pm
by chas
I think that espressoparts 220V LaSpaziale steam boiler element I mentioned yesterday is the wrong part. That must be for one of the larger models. I think it was 3750W or thereabouts. The S1 uses a 1250W 220V element.
Here is a link to a place in the Netherlands that carries the correct part:
https://brooks-parts.com/en/espresso-ma ... 38312.html
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 2:59 pm
by zchpayne
Update Time!
I finally managed to get a hold of the steam boiler heating element. It was out of stock for ages, but managed to get that installed and the group head boiler properly descaled and cleaned. The group head heating element seems like it's in good enough shape, but I'm not sure. I finally started putting it all back together and when I went to turn it on, some weird things happened that I'd love some input on.
So, my question is what is supposed to happen when you plug the machine in? Also, doThe ON/OFF button didn't work. The standby light blinked, but the button didn't work. Despite that, the steam boiler got piping hot. According to the manual, it should be the group boiler that gets hot first, then the steam boiler. That was not the case though. Also, no water made it to the steam boiler. I don't know if that means the solenoid is busted or if the machine just needs to be on for it to work properly. I tried taking apart the control panel and figuring out what was going on, but I am absolutely clueless when it comes to electrical side of things.
any of you have ideas about what could be wrong and or potential fixes? My guess is there is a short or something in the control board, but I don't know how to fix that. That, or the solenoids are broken and so is the pump and so is the control board, and so are the triacs boards and so is all of the wiring. Tough to know for sure really.
Re: New to me really poorly looked after V2 s1!
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 7:53 pm
by chas
The triac on the steam boiler triac board is shorted. You can either replace the triac or buy a new board. It fits all your symptoms. That may have been what took out your steam boiler element to begin with.