La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

This forum contains various threads with photos on how to perform various maintenance and repairs on your S1.
Post Reply
Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:02 pm

I recently purchased a used La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II. The unit needs some repair but I was able to get it for a good deal all things considered.
So, a summary of the issue: when the unit is turned on, the steam boiler and the brew boiler heat up as they should (they are hot to the touch and I checked the voltage across the leads), however if I try and pull an espresso shot with the boiler on, the lights 19-20-21 flash and the machine shuts off so I can't pull a shot. If I turn off the steam boiler, I am able to pull a shot with no issues. I believe this is the later model as I do not see triac boards inside but a relay instead. I know the flashing 19-20-21 refer to "Damaged Boiler Heating Element Triac" in the manual, but if the steam boiler is heating up could this still be the issue? Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated!

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:42 am

That alarm indicates that the temp sensor on the steam boiler has gone bad. On old and new machines both boilers use the same temp sensor on both boilers. In between LaSpaziale used the old style sensor on the coffee boiler and the new style on the steam boiler. If you are lucky enough to have the same type sensors on both boilers, you can easily swap them to see what happens. If you try that and it is the sensor, then the coffee boiler will stop working. If it's still the steam boiler that fails then it's likely to be the heater element itself.

Your best recourse if the sensors on each boiler are different is to order a new sensor for the steam boiler and give it a try.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:49 am

FYI, I just noticed that the manual indicates the same alarm condition 19-20-21 On for both bad steam temp sensor and bad steam triac/SSR. THis can't be right. Must be a documentation error. I'll check with Chris Coffee and issue a correction. However, in your case the most likely problem is the temp sensor. The symptoms of a Bad SSR/Triac would different, though why you only get this error when you pull a shot while the steam boiler is ON is a tad baffling.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:04 am

I just went back to the original S1 Manual which also indicates that 19-20-21 ON are used for both alarms. HOWEVER, the temp probe alarm is listed as non-blocking; i.e. the machine stays on and the SSR/Triac Alarm is blocking; i.e. the machine turns off. This is probably where I went wrong in the S2 manual. The temp probe alarm should probably stiill say "Non-blocking".

That would mean your original theory about the issue being with the SSR may be correct. As I recall, even though the SSR is in one module, it actually contains two identical SSRs. Whereas the old triac design had two separate but identical boards.

Since the two triacs are identical, you can always swap all the wires so that the suspect SSR controls the group boiler and the "good" SSR controls the steam boiler. I am not sure what the symptoms of doing this would be if that SSR is going flaky, but there should be a clear difference in the way things work. Potentially you would then get the equivalent error for the group triac and 20-21 would light and the machine would turn off.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:40 am

Thanks for your help! I should have been clearer earlier, I'm fairly certain the 19-20-21 alarm will trigger whether or not I pull a shot (I'll verify this evening). As for swapping the SSR cables, I will try this when I get home this evening and report back. I picked up the machine on Friday so I'm still figuring out it's operation (quite the upgrade from my Breville lol). When swapping the connectors on the SSR, I assume I just switch the top two right (B1, B2) with top two left and bottom two right with bottom two left (A1, A2)? (See attached)
20190311_072357.jpg

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:13 am

Actually from your photo it looks like you need to switch the pairs vertically rather than horizontally. That is for the nearest two pair, switch the places of the ones labelled A to where B currently is and vice versa. Then vertically swap the back two pairs.

The thin front wires are the low voltage DC control wires from the controller board, the much thicker back two pairs are the 115VAC wires to the two boiler heater elements.

BTW: On the ones marked A & B be sure to put A1 where B1 is and A2 where B2 is. Polarity needs to be followed on those since there is DC control voltage on the red wires and ground on the black wires. The 115VAC leads connected to the rear of the SSR module are not polarized. While you should probably still move the bottom top lead to the top top plug in spot and the bottom bottom lead to the top bottom post, it really doesn't matter if you accidentally get them backwards so long as both the bottom ones are moved to the top and vice versa.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:00 am

Awesome, thanks for the prompt and detailed response! I'll let you know how it goes.

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:42 am

I'm glad to sent that photo. I have only had to fool with the triac boards. They are both mounted side-by-side horizontally whereas the two triacs in this module are stacked vertically so where to move which wires is different.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:32 pm

No problem!
So I'm attempting to remove the leads from the plugs on the relay, but can't seem to get them unplugged. Is there a trick to it?

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:43 pm

So I managed to get the leads off and swap them over. The result? The same 19-20-21 error as before... Both the brew boiler and the steam boiler heat up, but about 4 minutes after I turn on the steam boiler I get the same blocking error. So would this mean the SSR is fine and the problem lies elsewhere? Could a clog in the lines preventing water from getting to the steam boiler cause this issue? The pressure relief valve hisses a little during the heating process, but I'm not sure how much water is actually in the boiler.

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:34 am

I just went back and dug out my original LaSpaziale S1 Mini Manual and it does show both the steam boiler triac/SSR and steam boiler temp probe failure alarms as being blocking alarms with 19-20-21 lit.

I am OK with LaSpaziale changing the temp probe alarm to being a blocking one but they should have changed the blinking light pattern to maybe just 19-20 blinking to differentiate between the two alarms. Oh well, I am sure it'll never get changed after all the years it's been in production.

Since you have now ruled out the SSRs as being the cause, I guess we are back to my original theory about it being the temp probe. As mentioned in a previous post, check to see if both boilers are using the new style short stubby temp probe. If so swap them between boilers and see if the failure changes to the coffee boiler.

BTW: SInce both SSRs are identical, there is no real need to swap the wires back the way they were orignally unless you really want to.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:00 am

Okay sounds good, I will keep the SSR as it is. And agreed! It would definitely make sense to have differing alarms for different errors. Makes diagnosing the issue a little tricky.

As for the temp probe, I'm not sure 100% where this is located. Could you please confirm that they are correctly identified in the attached photos? Thanks!
20190312_084327.jpg
20190312_084327.jpg (181.83 KiB) Viewed 808 times
20190312_084303.jpg
20190312_084303.jpg (93.23 KiB) Viewed 808 times
It looks as though the connections for both probes are different, and maybe not swap-able?

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:09 am

You did circle the correct parts. However, it's obvious from the photos that you have the model with the old style sensor on the coffee boiler and the new style sensor on the steam boiler.

So the next thing you should try instead is just to unscrew and inspect the temp sensor on the steam boiler. If it has scale build up or is highly discolored try giving it a good clean, screw it back it, and try again.

That style sensor has had some issues. It has been redesigned to fix the issue. Chris Coffee Service carries the new style.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:46 am

Okay sounds good. I'll take a look this evening, hopefully this is the cause! Getting anxious to get this machine fully operational :grin:

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:57 am

If it turns out that you need a new temp sensor, there are quite a few Canadians on this list that can probably point you to a Canadian parts vendor. You can probably order directly from Chris Coffee if you have to but the shipping and import taxes may be more than you want to pay.

Here's the part you'd need
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:01 pm

Yeah I just had a look at that. Between the shipping, import fees and exchange rate it may end up being a pricey sensor! Perhaps I'll dig through the forums in search of Canadian suppliers.

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:21 pm

So I quickly went home on my lunch break to take a look at the steam boiler temp probe. It wasn't in the cleanest condition (see pics), but after cleaning it I still have the same error. I should have verified with a dip stick of some sort, but I don't think there is any water in the steam boiler. Could this be the issue?
IMG_20190312_121730.jpg
IMG_20190312_121730.jpg (145.6 KiB) Viewed 792 times

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:41 pm

You can't tell anything about the water level in the boiler based on the temp sensor because it doesn't touch the water at all. It detects temperature based on the air/steam temp above the water. To see where the water level is in your boiler, remove the water level probe and see if the end of it is wet.

In the photo below, loosen just the brass nut pointed to by the arrow. and pull the sensor probe straight up. There will most likely be some mineral deposits on the end of it, which should be wet. The length of this probe will also give you an idea how far up the water level should be in the boiler.

If the water doesn't touch the end of this probe, the boiler refill solenoid should click on and the pump should run until the boiler is full or for one minute. If the probe doesn't indicate that the boiler if full after one minute the machine will shut off and lamp #13 will blink. Since you aren't seeing this error, the water level in your boiler is probably OK.
WLProbe.png
WLProbe.png (758.03 KiB) Viewed 790 times
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:21 pm

Ohh okay, that makes sense. I'll have a look at the water level probe this evening. If the water level is fine and the refill solenoid is working as expected, I will proceed with replacing the steam temp probe to see if it fixes the issue. Just looking to rule out the other issues before spending the $100 on it. Thanks again for your help!

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:39 pm

If you have to order from the US and can't find a less expensive source in Canada, try Clive Coffee in Portland, OR. It's closer so perhaps shipping would be cheaper. And their price is $50 vs $60 at Chris Coffee.

Temp Sensor at Clive
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:59 pm

I tracked down a place here in Edmonton that sells them for about $100 CAD. About the same as the US suppliers, but at least I'll be able to pick it up on the same day.
I also plan on checking the resistance across the temp sensor this evening to confirm it's operating as it should. From some other forums on this page I read that it is a NTC type thermistor so I'll do a quick test with an ice bath. If the resistance increases with decreasing temp, I'll at least know it's functioning.

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:00 pm

I removed the temperature probe to check the resistance, it was sitting around 238 kOhms at room temp and increases when placed in cold water. So it seems to be working as it should.
More interestingly, I checked the water level probe and it's bone dry. Also dipped a stick into the very bottom which also came out dry. I shined a flashlight into the hole from the temp probe and looked into the hole for the water probe, it's quite the mess in there. Lots of dry flakes and mineral deposits on the element. So the next step is figuring out a good way to clean this out since it's welded shut. Any suggestions? Is it best to try and dissolve it with a vinegar/water solution? I guess this means the problem is somewhere upstream as water isn't even getting to the boiler...This is turning into quite the project lol
20190312_164839.jpg
20190312_164829.jpg

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:42 pm

Since the boiler seems to be empty, the pump should start running and the steam boiler solenoid should make a loud click sound right after turning the machine on. You haven't indicated that this is happening. If it is a water blockage then you should get the light #13 blinking shutdown alarm after 60 seconds, which isn't happening either.

The easiest answer for that not happening would be if the water level sensor was shorting to ground which would signal to the controller board that the boiler was already full. The easiest way for this to happen is for that white plastic collar to be worn through so that the probe is touching the nut that it passes through.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:22 am

Correct. The solenoid does not activate when the machine is turned on. The water blockage light does not come on either.
Upon visual inspection, it looks as though the water level sensor is completely intact (i.e. the plastic collar has no worn out spots).

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:15 pm

So out of sheer curiosity I manually filled the steam boiler with water to see how things would behave. No errors! And the steam wand/hot water work great. Perhaps the steam boiler was overheating and causing an error due to no water in the tank to act as a heat sink? Either way, I guess the next step is to identify why the steam boiler isn't refilling automatically. Assuming the water level sensor is fine, do you have any suggestions on what to check next? Thanks for your help!

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:48 pm

Out of curiosity, how long is your current water level sensor rod vs. the height of the boiler? Replacement rods are very long since the same part is used in a number of different machines. The replacement purchaser has to cut it to the necessary length for their specific machine. If the previous owner replaced that part and left it so long that it pretty much reachs the bottom of the boiler what you are experiencing might happen.

The correct length will be somewhere between the steam pipe length and the hot water pipe length. If this seems like it might be your issue, you can always raise the rod up and recinch the nut to hold it at that level. Then you can experiment by moving it up and down until things work the way you want. Once you are at that point, you can draw a line with a permanent marker, remove the rod to see how much is sticking down into the boiler, and cut the rod to the correct length.

If this doesn't seem to be your issue, then I am currently at a loss as to what you might try next.

It's good that you have determined that the steam boiler heater element still works. On the Mini the only way to replace it is to replace the entire boiler. Those cost $300USD.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:56 pm

I'm not sure if my previous post has gone through yet, it's showing up as black text when I view it from my computer. The water level sensor rod is pretty short, I've attached a pic below. It probably sits just an inch or so into the steam boiler.
20190312_163721.jpg
Here was my previous post:
So out of sheer curiosity I manually filled the steam boiler with water to see how things would behave. No errors! And the steam wand/hot water work great. Perhaps the steam boiler was overheating and causing an error due to no water in the tank to act as a heat sink? Either way, I guess the next step is to identify why the steam boiler isn't refilling automatically. Assuming the water level sensor is fine, do you have any suggestions on what to check next? Thanks for your help!

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:14 pm

I guess the next easiest thing to try is to turn the machine on with the water level probe still out or, if you've already screwed it back in, with the wire discdonnected. If the solenoid clicks and the pump runs now, turn off the machine quickly since there is nothing to automatically turn it off and you could overflow the boiler. If the pump and solenoid still don't come on, you know to look for a problem unrelated to the water level probe.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:55 pm

Ok, I'll give that a shot this evening. If I have to remove the steam boiler refill solenoid, I assume it is the one to the left of the brew boiler with the tubing running towards the steam boiler? See pic
20190313_155403.jpg
20190313_155403.jpg (183.64 KiB) Viewed 654 times

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:28 pm

I've never owned a tank version and that looks a little different than in the plumbed version but that solenoid is in the same spot as the one in the plumbed models that refills the steam boiler. If that vinyl hose terminates at the lid of the steam boiler then that's definitely it.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:35 pm

Yep, it terminates at the steam boiler. Just checked the machine operation without the water level probe in place, solenoid still doesn't turn on...
I'll take it off later once the machine cools down and check for any potential mineral buildup

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:55 am

Inside the solenoid and valve body look pretty clean. Maybe a little buildup on the base of the solenoid shaft though. The tubing running from the valve body to the steam boiler also looks clear of obstruction. I've removed the solenoid assembly and I'll test it's functionality today.
IMG_20190314_085230.jpg
IMG_20190314_085230.jpg (110.92 KiB) Viewed 516 times

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:09 pm

I tested the solenoid by hooking up it up to a power supply. It does open and close as it should. However I connected some tubing in line and tried to flow water through it, but even when the solenoid is 'open' the water doesn't flow. The travel on the plunger is pretty minimal and the click sound when it opens isn't very loud at all. Not nearly as loud as when I open the brew solenoid. I'm not sure what to tackle next as I don't see any blockages in the lines. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
20190314_113934.jpg
20190314_115008.jpg
20190314_113938.jpg

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:11 pm

The pictures posted in the wrong order, but the 1st and 3rd are the closed and open positions respectively. The middle picture is the filter screen behind the Tee fitting.

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:47 pm

In the middle photo is that a wad of stainless steel mesh being used as a filter? If so, you may want to take that out and see what happens. It could either be clogged or squashed down too much.

Of course it's expecting the pump to be running and forcing water through. You still haven't indicated that there is any sound of the pump running when the solenoid kicks in.

At least on a plumbed in Spaz all the solenoid clicks are equally loud, so this could indicate a solenoid issue. What voltage are you applying to the solenoid with this external power supply?
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:53 pm

Ok, I'll give that a shot.

The pump does turn on when I make an espresso shot. No sound of the pump running when the steam boiler is empty though.

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:54 pm

It's actually a variable power supply, I increase the voltage slowly and at about 40 V the solenoid clicks. When I test it the second time I can up the voltage to 110V and just use the on/off switch instead.

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:13 pm

ACor DC? The solenoids are all rated for 110VAC. I am guessing that when you turn on the machine and push the Boiler On button you will not see 110VAC applied to the solenoid assuming the water level in the boiler is low. The pump is obviously not getting its voltage switched on either.

This indicates to me that you may have a problem on the controller board that causing the microcontroller to not receive a low water signal from the boiler.

One final check would be to use an ohm meter - with the machine unplugged and the water level sensor unscrewed from the boiler - to check the resistance from the probe to the side of the boiler which is connected to ground. When the sensor touches the water in normal operation current flows through the water to the grounded boiler. The controller detects this current, turns off the pump, and de-energizes the solenoid. When you chec the resistance of the water level probe to the boiler (ground) you should get infinity. If you see something lower than that then the probe connection may have a short to ground on the controller board.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:51 pm

110V AC. I just checked the operation with the steel mesh removed, using just a gravity feed the water passed through the solenoid when it was open and stopped when it was closed. But like you said, there is expected to be some driving force from the pump when in actual operation to force it through this mesh. The mesh doesn't appear to be clogged.

Ok, I will try that this evening when I get home (I brought just the solenoid to work today to test). I'm not sure I understand the exact location when you say "the side of the boiler which is connected to ground" but I imagine that will become clearer once I get home and actually have the espresso machine in front of me to have a better look at it.

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:55 pm

Unless you're referring to this
20190313_123305.jpg

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:03 pm

That works. I meant any metal part of the boiler. However, on the mini, the boiler is bolted to the chassis so touching one probe to that nut in your photo should be the same point electrically as touching the boiler.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:21 pm

So when I measure from the bottom of the water probe to ground I get a reading of OL on the fluke which I assume means infinity? I guess the problem may be with the controller board.

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:19 pm

So I'm not overly familiar with the best way to troubleshoot the controller board. Any pointers or advice on where to get started? I've been looking through the forums but haven't come across anything to point me in the right direction.

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:19 am

There's a good reason why there are no instructions on this forum for troubleshooting the controller board. As far as I know there's never been a failure. The problems have always been something else.

However, at this point it's worth checking out the board. First label all the wires and connectors going to the board to ensure they go back in the correct place. Some of the connectors are unique and/or keyed so that they'll only go in one specific connector. Unfortunately, not all are keyed so you have to be careful.

Before removing the controller board, check that both switches on top of the plastic box enclosing the controller board are set to the right position. The timer switch needs to be OFF if you are NOT using the external add-on timer and ON if you are using it. If the timer switch is in the wrong position, correct it and recheck the machine. Whether the 15/20A switch is where you want it won't impact this issue.

Once you have disconnected all the wires and remove the plastic box, remove the box covers so you can get to the board. Check it out for burn or scortch marks and check for any strange smells. There is a fuse on the board that is worth checking. However, unless the board design has changed significantly in the last few years, a blown fuse should prevent all the solenoid valves from working and the pump from coming on when pulling shots or steam. (As far as I can tell two of your solenoids and the pump are working fine.)

The board connector that the wire from the steam water level sensor attaches to is located adjacent to a ground pin. You might check for shorts on the connector or on the board between the two. However, you already checked this out with the ohmmeter previously so this should not be the issue. But you never know.

If the end result appears to be the controller board you may have to ask youself if it is worthwhile to replace. It would probably be around $500CAD; i.e. the most expensive part in the machine.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:50 am

Phew. $500 is a steep price for repair. I got the machine for $100 all in, so I think if it was to come to that point I would just use it for espresso and maybe buy an independent milk frother.

I did give the controller board a visual inspection yesterday, no scorch marks to be seen and the fuse looks intact. I'll check the board connector for the steam water level sensor today. Thanks for all your help, Chas!

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:16 am

I know the LaSpaz tech at Chris Coffee, I'll try to contact him sometime today to see if he has any ideas other than what we have already tried.

Perhaps I should have you try one more thing first. If you have a short jumper wire with alligator clips on each end that would be ideal. Otherwise, do this however you can. Briefly short the water level sensor where the metal rod pokes out on top of the sensor assembly to the boiler (ground). See if this turns on the pump and boiler refill solenoid.

If so, then the controllerr board is OK and we're back to it being something between the controller board and the sensor. If it still doesn't work, I think we're finally down to it being a controller board issue.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:50 am

I tried shorting the water level sensor last night with no luck. I turned on the machine, as the boiler light was blinking I connected one end of the jumper cable to the top of the water probe and the other end I touched to the side of the boiler. I also tried grounding that end on the metal frame of the machine with no change. See picture below (ignore the missing supply line to the hot water, I accidentally cracked it so I'll need to replace the teflon tubing).
20190319_204404.jpg

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:12 pm

OK, thanks. Now I'll check in with Chris Coffee Service to see if they have any ideas short of just replacing the controller board. I think there has to be a component between the sensor and the microprocessor that converts the signal into something the processor can read. I assume that part has failed.

However, I have never seen an actual schematic for that board so I can't go any deeper than that. I assume the techs at CCS do have schematics though I doubt they attempt to repair that board rather than just replacing it.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:08 pm

Much appreciated! Looking forward to hearing what they have to say.

User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by chas » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:19 am

Since the CCS reply was in a lengthy email with pix, I forwarded that email to the email address you used when you registered with the forum. Hopefully you got it. Let me know if not. If there is a different email address you need me to use, Private Message it to me here in the forum.

Good luck with this latest recommendation. BTW: As you will see he did confirm that a new board costs $399USD. Also, he mentioned that the couple of times he was sure the controller board was at fault and put it a new one, that wasn't the fix, and the controller board was NOT bad.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Cdrake39
Cappuccino
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II - Steam Wand not working

Post by Cdrake39 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:50 am

Got it, thanks! I'll check the wire this evening after work

Post Reply

Return to “Maintenance and Repair”