[Electrical] La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi - Possible to save/repair this cable?

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zirtbow
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[Electrical] La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi - Possible to save/repair this cable?

Post by zirtbow » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:04 pm

So I have a S1 Vivaldi (not the II. It's old. 2008). This person sold it to me cheap since the seal on the steam boiler gave up and it was leaking. They had no idea how to fix it. They kept using this machine for coffee and not steam but the steam leaking out fried a couple wires running to the top of the boiler. This smaller orange wire connected to a bolt off the top of the boiler. That same bolt had a green ground cable connected to it which was also fried. I have a replacement ground cable but I'm not clear what I can do for this orange wire. I can't even find an S1 wiring diagram but I'm guessing this orange wire is just a grounding wire. I thought about splicing another wire to it but since there is no identifying marks on it I'm not sure what wire to use. Obviously as a manner of safety I'm not going to just try anything based on my guesswork. I did look into replacing the entire connector (the other wires run to the temperature probe) but I can't find anywhere that would sell just this connector.. or even the entire wiring harness for that matter. Anyone with some experience in this area have any suggestions? I included a pic of the other end of the connector that plugs into the Spaziale main board marked 7A. You can see the orange cable runs into the 2nd from the right.
BoilerTop1.jpg
BoilerTop1.jpg (36.53 KiB) Viewed 429 times
BoilerTop2.jpg
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20180816_104552.jpg (52.58 KiB) Viewed 429 times
I found this picture online to show you what the orange cable and green grounding cable look like fully attached to the bolt on the top of the boiler. This is not my machine.
VIIBoilerTop.jpg
VIIBoilerTop.jpg (53.82 KiB) Viewed 429 times

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chas
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Re: [Electrical] La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi - Possible to save/repair this cable?

Post by chas » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:40 am

That's a new one. Usually it the main power leads to the boiler heater element that fry. I've never seen it happen to the ground wires. The fat green wire is the main boiler ground wire. It goes to the nut that terminates all the main ground wires at the left rear lower corner when looking at it from the back. This wire is as large as it is in case there is a power short to the boiler. IN which case the fuse will blow rather than having 110V appear on the boiler chassis.

Also, without this wire the water level sensor won't work since it functions by having a small current flow through the water between the sensor and the boiler.

The orange wire is the return wire from the temperature sensor. As you have notices both temperature sensor wires terminates in that four pin connector that plugs into the controller board.

It sounds like you have already obtained a replacement for the large green wire. For the orange wire, you're best bet is to cut off the uninsulated part, splice on a new piece, and then attach an O-ring to the end. WIth enough searching you might be able to find one of those connectors. My best go to recently has been eBay where you often end up buying the part cheap directly from China but then pay $10-12 for shipping and waiting 6 weeks for it to arrive.
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Re: [Electrical] La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi - Possible to save/repair this cable?

Post by chas » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:43 am

BTW: Are you missing a bolt on the left side or did you just temporarily remove it? Hopefully, it didn't break off. If so you probably need to tap it out and rethread the hole. If all the bolts aren't in place and tightened in a uniform manner you will end up with a steam leak even if the gasket underneath is intact.
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zirtbow
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Re: [Electrical] La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi - Possible to save/repair this cable?

Post by zirtbow » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:46 am

chas wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:40 am
That's a new one. Usually it the main power leads to the boiler heater element that fry. I've never seen it happen to the ground wires. The fat green wire is the main boiler ground wire. It goes to the nut that terminates all the main ground wires at the left rear lower corner when looking at it from the back. This wire is as large as it is in case there is a power short to the boiler. IN which case the fuse will blow rather than having 110V appear on the boiler chassis.

Also, without this wire the water level sensor won't work since it functions by having a small current flow through the water between the sensor and the boiler.

The orange wire is the return wire from the temperature sensor. As you have notices both temperature sensor wires terminates in that four pin connector that plugs into the controller board.

It sounds like you have already obtained a replacement for the large green wire. For the orange wire, you're best bet is to cut off the uninsulated part, splice on a new piece, and then attach an O-ring to the end. WIth enough searching you might be able to find one of those connectors. My best go to recently has been eBay where you often end up buying the part cheap directly from China but then pay $10-12 for shipping and waiting 6 weeks for it to arrive.

I have obtained a replacement green wire which was easy since the original had it's size stamped on it. So I went to eBay and bought 12 AWG 600V Ul1015 wire. I think I should be pretty safe with this but I'm having trouble determining what connectors to use. Spaziale looks like they used PVC/Vinyl insulated ring connectors and I might go with that but I have some high heat ring terminals laying around. I'm debating on if I should buy PVC insulated terminals like Spaziale, buy nylon ring terminals instead, or use my high heat terminals and use some Polyolefin heat shrink after I crimp the connection. I've been google searching most of the morning and can't really find anyone who might know to ask such a question.

I absolute agree on cutting off the uninsulated part and splicing a new piece together. I just didn't want to throw that out there because I think some people get in a huff over spliced wires. My biggest issue is the orange wire has no marks what so ever on it. So I can tell it's a small gauge with 7 strands to it (probably 24 or 26 awg) but my problem is that I'm not clear on what type of wire to use since it will go directly over the boiler. Do they even make 1015 that small? I have no idea.

I haven't bought any wire from China and have been trying to stick to American sellers. I'm afraid of Chinese standards and don't want to burn my house down. Have you used wire from China and is it quality stuff?

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Re: [Electrical] La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi - Possible to save/repair this cable?

Post by zirtbow » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:48 am

chas wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:43 am
BTW: Are you missing a bolt on the left side or did you just temporarily remove it? Hopefully, it didn't break off. If so you probably need to tap it out and rethread the hole. If all the bolts aren't in place and tightened in a uniform manner you will end up with a steam leak even if the gasket underneath is intact.
I temporarily took the bolt out. The entire boiler element was covered in scale and the gasket around the boiler was completely shot. I had to dig it out and put a new one after cleaning the element off. I've just hand tightened the bolts back for now but is there a torque spec for these bolts? I've been doing hand tight on most things and then a quarter turn past that because I"m so afraid of breaking any of these bolts off.

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Re: [Electrical] La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi - Possible to save/repair this cable?

Post by chas » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:21 pm

There are no specs. Your algorithm sounds good. You definitely don't want any of those bolts to break off.

If after you are done you still hear the hiss of escaping steam around the boiler lid, don't tighten any of the bolts more than about 1/8th turn at a time.

My lid was loose once and about 1/8th turn all the way around fixed me up.
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Re: [Electrical] La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi - Possible to save/repair this cable?

Post by zirtbow » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:05 pm

chas wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:21 pm
There are no specs. Your algorithm sounds good. You definitely don't want any of those bolts to break off.

If after you are done you still hear the hiss of escaping steam around the boiler lid, don't tighten any of the bolts more than about 1/8th turn at a time.

My lid was loose once and about 1/8th turn all the way around fixed me up.
Excellent. I think I'm more worried about water leaks once I get everything back together. I'm trying to be gentle as far as tightening goes since I assume it's easier to strip threads on this.

I didn't realize you had both replies above or I would have made one big reply. Do you have any opinion on my other reply about what wire to use for the splice or what terminal connection types to use?

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Re: [Electrical] La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi - Possible to save/repair this cable?

Post by chas » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:57 am

I wouldn't worry about using any kind of insulated O crimp connectors on the large green wire since it's just a ground wire, After all it just connects to the exposed metal shell of the steam boiler.

I know what you mean about the skinny wire. It's much easier to find solid core insulated wired of that gauge than it is to find stranded. However, it's not very critical that you match either gauge or type for that wire. The current traveling through that wire is too small for it to make much difference. Just use whatever you can find locally.

The unfortunate thing for that small gauge wire is that you probably can't buy it by the foot. You may have to buy a 50' spool. If you're lucky you already have something usable lying around the house. If not, Amazon has 26 gauge stranded:

https://www.amazon.com/CBAZYTM-Hardwire ... wire&psc=1
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zirtbow
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Re: [Electrical] La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi - Possible to save/repair this cable?

Post by zirtbow » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:07 am

chas wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:57 am
I wouldn't worry about using any kind of insulated O crimp connectors on the large green wire since it's just a ground wire, After all it just connects to the exposed metal shell of the steam boiler.

I know what you mean about the skinny wire. It's much easier to find solid core insulated wired of that gauge than it is to find stranded. However, it's not very critical that you match either gauge or type for that wire. The current traveling through that wire is too small for it to make much difference. Just use whatever you can find locally.

The unfortunate thing for that small gauge wire is that you probably can't buy it by the foot. You may have to buy a small 50-100' spool. If you're lucky you already have something usable lying around the house.
I was actually going to break down and just order it from China. The closest thing I could get locally is a 100' spool from Microcenter which is not only pretty expensive but going to be completely wasted since I only need about 6" of it. If I just wait it out from China I can get a far smaller section for around $1-$2... not so bad and not as much wasted. I was actually going to go with stranded silicone for the splice. I'm guessing the insulation will look different but should still work.

Thanks... you're the only one who responded in any way on this. I'm going to order the final things I need tonight and hopefully this whole things comes together.

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