New member with a lot of questions!

[hlsheppard]

Hi all -

This is a great site, Chris! I've been reading it for a while (lurking about).

Here's my "deal:"

I'm the current owner of an Isomac Tea. I was an "early adopter" of the Tea after using a Silvia for a bit (which was a HUGE improvement). I've also roasted my own coffee for a long time. (basically another GEEK! :D )

Anyhow - I had my heart set on getting an Andreja Premium from Chris last week and was all set to pull the trigger. Then I started looking seriously at the S1.

Yes, it's more money - but I truly believe that with this machine and my Mazzer Mini - I'll be set for many years. Plus, the quietness of the S1 is a HUGE deal (my wife, our 1 yr old and 3 yr old get tired of my noise at 5am).

The problem is that I'm just NOT a handy guy. Ask me to cook, comment on wines, wrestle with my boys - no problem. Ask my to plumb, or wire electrical outlets and we have "issues."

I've heard that the John Guest fittings that Chis sells are basically idiot proof. Can anyone comment on this?

Also - I have 20amp circuits in my kitchen, but 15amp plugs. Can I switch the outlet to 20amp (for the S1) and still plug my 15amp Mazzer into the 20amp outlet? I looks like it would fit and it would certainly seem safe to me, anyway?

My only other concern (after flooding our house and electrocuting myself!) is that I JUST got a new 58mm "crotchless" PF from Chris and a matching Espro tamper (LOVE it). It sucks to have to basically waste those with the S1. I suppose e-Bay might be an option...

I would get the S1 and the filter kit you all recommend at the same time. Is there a requirement to purchase an "additional" plumbing kit or anything? I don't see one for sale on Chris' site; and since I've never owned a direct plumbed machine I have no idea what is included.

I know I'm rambling - but I've been reading so much lately that my head is SPINNING! Any help you guys could offer would be great!

OH - I almost forgot: I sent an e-mail to Chris 9 days ago asking many of these questions. He hasn't responded (which is VERY strange for him). I actually called yesterday afternoon and asked them if Chris was on vacation. They said "nope, it's Friday afternoon and he's golfing."

I certainly understand that (it was beautiful and a holiday weekend to boot). It seems really strange to me that I haven't heard from him, though. I just wanted to mention this before anyone said "please go bug Chris!"

[admin]

I've heard that the John Guest fittings that Chris sells are basically idiot proof. Can anyone comment on this?

The first thing you have to do is unscrew a connection in the cold water line under the kitchen sink just above the faucet and insert the "T" adapter that comes with the kit. In my older house, this was all solid copper line without enough play to insert this extra piece into the line. I had to hacksaw about 3/4" out. Afte doing so, I could not get the compression ring off the piece I cut out so that I could reuse it, costing me the time to make a hardware store run to purchase this 25 cent piece Fortunately, I bought 2-3 of them because I did trash the first one I attempted to put one. If the line above the faucet in your house is that newer flexible line, you won't have this issue.

Other than that, when it came time to screw the flexible hose from the S1 to the John Guest connector it leaked until I wrapped the connection with lots of teflon pipe tape first.

Also - I have 20amp circuits in my kitchen, but 15amp plugs. Can I switch the outlet to 20amp (for the S1) and still plug my 15amp Mazzer into the 20amp outlet? I looks like it would fit and it would certainly seem safe to me, anyway?

Sure, the 20 amp plug has one hole that is T shaped so that you can plug 15 or 20 amp plugs into it.

I would get the S1 and the filter kit you all recommend at the same time. Is there a requirement to purchase an "additional" plumbing kit or anything? I don't see one for sale on Chris' site; and since I've never owned a direct plumbed machine I have no idea what is included.
Other than my above comments you shouldn't need anything other than the Filter kit. BTW: The standard kit comes with 1/4" fittings and tubing but Chris recommends 3/8" for the S1. Be sure when you order to tell them that you want the 3/8" version for an S1.

[hlsheppard]

Thanks so much for the information!

I actually got a call from Chris last night (@ 10pm!). He said that he had been answering my e-mails... For some reason - they're not coming through on my end. So, once again, Chris does his usual best for his cusotmers! :D

Our plumbing is newer (our house is only 18 years old or so), but the shut off valves under our sink are really "cheesy" quality. I think that maybe I'll have a plumber come in and "overhaul" a few items under our sink and also install the setup.

Compression fittings are a bugger! I once replaced a toilet's complete plumbing (a BIG deal for me!! LOL) and I struggled with those darn things.

Anyhow - after talking to Chris, I am definitely sold on the S1. I have to sell just a couple more things on e-Bay and my order is in (don't laugh - keeps the wife happy! ). I should be able to place the order by the end of this week.

I CAN'T WAIT!!!

[Barry]

Howard, a couple of additional comments:

1. I went through the exact same evaluation you did and purchased the S1. Given the opportunity to reverse the decision and go with the Andrea...I would still go with the S1.

2. I too own a Tea which is now in my office. While it is capable of great shots, the S1 is in a completely different league.

3. I did all the plumbing work myself. I found the biggest challenge to be the lack of space under my counters making the installation work a pain, but not difficult.

4. Get a pressure regulator from Chris to install before the water goes into your softener/filter system and adjust it to about 21 or 22 psi when the machine is off. It won't prevent the minor leak we all seem to have from the pressure relief valve, but it should minimize any other pressure related leaks you may encounter.

Best of luck,
Barry

[hlsheppard]

Hi Barry et. al. -

I pulled the trigger tonight on a new S1 with all the trimmings! I did add the pressure regulator to my order.

However - can someone explain to me how these work? I looks like it just ties into the line (I assume prior to the filter/softener).

How does it actually regulate pressure? Also, how do I know to adjust it to that psi? Do I need some sort of testing instrument?

Keep in mind I have the handyman skill of a 5 year old! LOL

I am actually thinking about getting a buddy (or maybe even a plumber) to help install this stuff.

[admin]

Hi Barry et. al. -

However - can someone explain to me how these work? I looks like it just ties into the line (I assume prior to the filter/softener).

When you tie the water line in- first the water flows through the softener, then through the carbon filter, then to the S1. The pressure regulator goes between the carbon filter and the S1. You want to see and adjust what the actual pressure is going to the S1. If you place it anywhere else it won't be accurate. BTW: Sometimes for the first few minutes with a new carbon filter you may get some black carbony water flowing out. Be sure to drain into a bucket until the water is clear before connecting to the S1.

How does it actually regulate pressure? Also, how do I know to adjust it to that psi? Do I need some sort of testing instrument?
The pressure regulator has a gauge on it and there is an adjustment screw on the back. Unscrew for more pressure, screw in for less pressure.

[hlsheppard]

The pressure regulator that I ordered was a little bugger. There's no way I can see that there could be a guage on it. Did I order the wrong one?

[admin]

It looks like the gauge is now sold separately but if you order it before the rest ships and you ask, I bet they'll connect them up for you. Not that it's a big deal. You just unscrew the plastic cap form the top of the regulator and screw in the gauge. Even a 5 year old could do it.

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... ssuregauge

I'm sure they probably try to set these to some reasonable value before they ship, but since it mainly imposes a pressure drop relative to your line pressure, you'll never know what you've really got if you don't get the gauge.

[hlsheppard]

I called an Mary says she's going to try and get it in the order before it ships. I should have everything on Thursday!!!

Thanks!

I'm so excited - yet I'm a little nervous. I've spent so much time reading this forum I almost EXPECT something to go wrong!

[hlsheppard]

***UPDATE***

Mary called and said that she is not going to include the pressure gauge as there is no reason to. The techs have the machine "set up to take 25 psi" and the max the pressure regulator lets through is also 25 psi.

She said if I make no adjustments it should be perfect.

[hlsheppard]

Hi all -

The S1 came today (after being delayed due to UPS miss-route! )

I can NOT believe how incredible the plumbing, etc. all went together. Even me, with my absolute lack of knowledge of stuff like that... No troubles, no leaks - just amazing.

The only thing not 100% perfect is the boiler gauge. It doesn't sit flush against the "backsplash" panel. It's flush at the top, but it sits at an angle and the bottom of that gauge trim ring has about a 3mm gap that you see.

I took the panel off and tried to straighten it, but I was concerned that I would kink a copper line (it didn't straighten out with quite a bit of force...). That is NOT a big deal as far as I'm concerned. Something for me to screw around with as time goes by...

MY LORD is this machine a change from the Isomac Tea! The cups (with the towel over them) are HOT! The steam power is just ludicrous (in a good way)! I found that the grind setting on my Mazzer mini had to be made just a hair finer and I have 25 second, crema-laden shots of Black Cat! :P It is so nice to be able to be doing other stuff while the volumetric shot is on auto-pilot. I love it!

I'm now playing with the fine temperature adjustments to see how it affects the flavor of the shot (which is a helluva lot of fun!).

I plan on drying the drip tray before bed tonight and seeing if I have the expansion valve leak (as I intend on running it 24/7).

I don't really care for how tightly the pf holder holds the basket (read about that here a while back, so I knew). I also was a bit disappointed that Chris didn't include a true "blank" basket for backflushing. There was a black rubber disk (which I can't get to work).

For some reason, when I try to backflush water just sprays out of the top of the pf (around the gasket). Doesn't matter how tight I have the PF, either I was looking for the alarm that says it's "choking," but instead get water (a super fine, HOT spray) on my counter (any ideas?).

Over all - my back is sore from moving the bugger - but so far I love it.

Thanks to all of you who helped so much answering my questions!

[BobG]

You can bend the pressure gauge to fit back in the opening in the panel with your hands-- mine was heavily bent as it was shipped to Seattle and it fits perfectly now.

Use the single basket to do the backflush. We all got the black rubber to backflush -- if others use a different one like a SS one, they bought it separately. The rubber disk works just fine in the single basket - and not as well in the double in my experience.

Chas has details on the backflushing procedure elsewhere on his site. You can follow his directions -- let the machine choke until the yellow lights indicate it is chocking and then press your dosage button to backflush. I backflush with water daily and with detergent every few months.

Bob G

[bobroseman]

regarding backflushing - Since I never pull a single shot, I just got some "Goop" at Home Depot and used it to cement the rubber stopper into place. Let it dry and your good to go. I've used mine like this for a couple of months. Much more convenient than trying to fit the stopper each time.

I've also removed the retaining spring from my portafilter baskets and run 5 double baskets and (soon)2 triple baskets during heavy periods.

Backflushing and wiggle rinsing just requires that I drop in the modified single basket.

BTW get one of those little round portafilter brushes that Chris sells and a mechanics inspection mirror. The combo will keep your dispersion screens squeeky clean and at the same time avoid your getting a pain in the neck from trying to see if you got all the junk off. Also it helps you to watch your pulls when you get around to cutting the bottom off of a portafilter.


Bob :)

[hlsheppard]

Hi Bob (and Bob)

I DID get a proper backflushing done last night. I was basically using the rubber disk wrong (I tried a couple of different ways, just all wrong). You're right - just set it on top of the single basket and I had no problems at all.

Also, at least so far it appears my expansion valve does not drip at all. I did get the pressure regulator based on advice given here.

BTW get one of those little round portafilter brushes that Chris sells and a mechanics inspection mirror.

I have been using one of those brushes for quite a while. The mirror is a great idea. It was much easier to see up under the Tea's E61 group than the S1's.

I've also removed the retaining spring from my portafilter baskets and run 5 double baskets and (soon)2 triple baskets during heavy periods.

I tried removing the springs last night. I had a real problem with knocking out the puck. Do you guys use a spoon or something as opposed to a knock box when you run without a spring?

BTW - all of the negative that I've read on alt.coffee about the 53mm PF are CRAP! Not only do the PF handles have great mass. The narrow, deep baskets are very channel resistant compared to the E61 setup.

I read on this forum about the baskets showing up as "true" 53mm. I'm here to tell you that mine certainly are. I have a Thor tamper and pf holder on the way - but I'm currently using an Espro 53mm. It fits dead-nuts perfect (getting hung up past the retaining clip only - not a problem with coffee in the basket). It's such a perfect fit that rocking the tamper is not possible. No grounds get past that puppy!

If you notice the time on my post - I got up early just to go play!! LOL

Wife and kids will stay asleep with the super-quiet rotatry pump beast...

[admin]

I tried removing the springs last night. I had a real problem with knocking out the puck. Do you guys use a spoon or something as opposed to a knock box when you run without a spring?

If you haven't done so already, read this thread and then purchase the LM 58mm spring recommended therein:
http://www.rimpo.org/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=51

[hlsheppard]

I couldn't find it on the site anymore. The link appears to be broken now... There is a generic spring on the site - but no details as to if it will work or not...

[admin]

They made it hard to find. Looks like they changed the part number from F.353 to F_353! This is the one I bought. And if you need any other supplies, get them while you're at it. Otherwise, if I remember, the shipping charge was about 8 bucks for a $2 part!

http://espressoparts.com/c=GsSL8iHNgFHt ... image.y=20

[bobroseman]

Hi Bob (and Bob)
I tried removing the springs last night. I had a real problem with knocking out the puck. Do you guys use a spoon or something as opposed to a knock box when you run without a spring?

My setup is next to the sink. After I pull a shot I just dump the basket into the sink while I drop in another warm basket. I clean the baskets out as time permits.

I might as well mention the virtues of my turkey baster bottom at this point. It serves three funtions. When the baskets have cooled to the touch, I gently tap them against the turkey baster to knock the puck out into the garbage disposer. I also use it around the steam wand to divert condensate into the sink during the bleeding operation. The third use is to blow chaff out of my Hottop, but that's another story.

Bob

ps - I forgot to mention that one (huge, in my opinion) advantage to my method is that I get to inspect and clean the bottom of the PF regularly, so that oils don't accumulate there. With the baskets clipped in, I didn't clean that area as often as I should have.

B

[Barry]

Apparently I was one of the few that never received a backflush insert from Chris. This has not proven to be a big deal for several reasons.

1. I am conservative about removing the screens and brass diffuser every morning after I pull my shots to clean them.

2. I have removed the spouts from all of my portafilters. Over the years, I have found they are simply a place for oil to collect. I have one naked filter and one spoutless unit.

3. On the very rare occasions I do want to backflush, I screw a brass termination fitting (about $2 at Lowes) onto the end of the portafilter and use the unit that way to backflush. I too get some water leakage around the gasket.

Just as an FYI, my unit never leaked from the expansion valve UNTIL I started to backflush. It only leaks when the unit is heating up. Once up to temp. it stops. I would pull it apart, however, given everyone elses experience, I doubt it would make a difference. If it leaked consistenly, I would suspect an obstruction. It is only a minor annoyance, more because I can't make it stop than a funtional problem.

[bobroseman]

3. On the very rare occasions I do want to backflush, I screw a brass termination fitting (about $2 at Lowes) onto the end of the portafilter and use the unit that way to backflush. I too get some water leakage around the gasket..

I was told by someone who knows a lot more about espresso machines than I, that when you pull a shot a small amount of coffee is drawn back into the group head. Over time it will cause problems ranging from rancid taste to blockage. The reason one backflushes is to clear that oil out of the system. When I back flush I first remove the screens and the water disperser and soak them separately. I backflush about once a week. Whereas I pull the screens every day.

Bob

[Barry]

3. On the very rare occasions I do want to backflush, I screw a brass termination fitting (about $2 at Lowes) onto the end of the portafilter and use the unit that way to backflush. I too get some water leakage around the gasket..

I was told by someone who knows a lot more about espresso machines than I, that when you pull a shot a small amount of coffee is drawn back into the group head. Over time it will cause problems ranging from rancid taste to blockage. The reason one backflushes is to clear that oil out of the system. When I back flush I first remove the screens and the water disperser and soak them separately. I backflush about once a week. Whereas I pull the screens every day.

Bob

Bob, I do backflush, however, only about 1/month. Specifically for the reason you state. I am a little unclear on one thing...do you backflush without the screens and brass diffuser? This actually seems like a reasonable idea since the screens and diffuser are already clean.

[bobroseman]

Bob, I do backflush, however, only about 1/month. Specifically for the reason you state. I am a little unclear on one thing...do you backflush without the screens and brass diffuser? This actually seems like a reasonable idea since the screens and diffuser are already clean.

I figure, why drive crud from dirty screens back into the system so I try to backflush with the screens aind diffuser removed. I backflush about once per week but remove the screens every other day, more or less. It may be over kill but I figure clean means zero coffee residue. Anything more than zero is just a degree of dirty. :D

Bob