Second round of VernaBaskets...

Post by **lino** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:59 pm

Hey Guys,

Thought I'd post updates on a new thread.
Just got the new baskets. Here's the problem: there appears to be two basket styles, one with a sharp edge and one with a more gentle radius. The first batch I made were all the sharp edged type. This time I received all gentle radius type (they are "real" laspaziale though, I think).

NewEnglandCliff can elaborate on this, but basically, these baskets will hold slightly less since their tip radius is more gentle.

I'm not sure there is much that can be done, I don't know if Chris can specify to that detail. If he orders these from Italy, I have a hunch what an Italian would say to that concern...

Is there any interest in these? Am I splitting hairs? We may be somewhat out of luck otherwise, and / or the cost may rise.

You can see the difference in the pic below. The basket on the left is "gentle" and center and right are "sharp".

Comments?

ciao

lino

Post by **bobroseman** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:53 pm

I'll take one, lino.

Bob

Post by **bobroseman** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:22 am

Hey lino, put me down for two.

Bob

Post by **doppio** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:00 pm

Lino - I'm also still interested. Put me down for 2. Thanks

Paul

Post by **Barry** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:11 pm

Lino, are they any easier to get out of the portafilter than the stock baskets, i.e. no screw driver needed? If so, put me down for at least two!

Thanks,
Barry

Post by **lino** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:42 pm

Actually, they are made from two stock baskets, so they should be the same, in terms of removal from the PF.

lino

Post by **BillW** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:59 am

Lino,

Please put me down for one triple basket too. thanks!

Bill

Post by **NewEnglandCliff** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:17 am

The sharp radius baskets hold about 1 gram more coffee than the round radius baskets.

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:36 pm

Barry wrote:Lino, are they any easier to get out of the portafilter than the stock baskets, i.e. no screw driver needed? If so, put me down for at least two!

Thanks,
Barry

Go to Espresso Parts or alternate source and purchase a stock LM PF spring. You'd think because the LM baskets are 58mm that they wouldn't fit, but they do and they completely solve this issue.

The problem is that the S1 PF springs are made of wire about the thickness of large paper clip wire whereas the LM spring wire is about the same guage as a standard paper clip. Big difference.

Post by **NewEnglandCliff** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:12 pm

I've been contact with Chris from Chris Coffee about trying to get the larger of the two double baskets, and it's not so simple. Here was his most recent reply:

You have to understand something, there is no such thing as filter baskets manufactured by La Spaziale or any other espresso machine manufacturer. They purchase that sort of thing from companies that specialize in that sort of work. Furthermore they use more than one supplier. I have no input on which of the two insert baskets they send me when I place an order and to be honest with you if I were to send them your email they would scratch their head and say are you kidding?

Chris

Guess they don't understand us fanatics.

Post by **bobroseman** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:16 pm

Honestly, I don't believe that I could taste the difference between 60mL pulled from 24 grms of coffee and 60mL pulled from 25 grams. Could any of you?

Bob

Post by **NewEnglandCliff** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:05 pm

The coffee I used to make the measurements of the differences between the baskets gave these results:

Stock double - 17 grams

Large radius triple - 20 grams

Sharp radius triple - 21 grams

That's 5% more coffee. If the amount of coffee is directly proportional to the length of time you run the pour before you experience blonding, and if you normally run a 25 second pour, this would allow about another 1.25 seconds before blonding.

Not a lot, to be sure, but if you're going to go to the effort and expense of fabricating this basket and that much more can be gained for no extra work whatsoever (for free), then why not? All else being equal, I'll opt for the larger capacity. Still, I wouldn't turn down the slightly smaller one.

Post by **admin** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:54 pm

I think many that would be interested in a triple basket probably have already purchased or made their own bottomless PF. Might it not be possible to make another version of this basket with the sloped baskets that is slightly taller than the ones made in the first round?

Then you could get the extra gram or so in the PF even though the resulting basket might fit only in a bottomless PF. I guess this also partly depends on whether the "tooling" lino made to create these triples is fixed or whether there is some adjustability.

Post by **lino** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:33 pm

Hey Guys,

The tooling I have would allow for a slightly longer basket. But there would be other issues...

1) The bottomless PFs I cut (the ones purchased from Chris) have a hole too small to allow the basket thru. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that the bottomless have the same basket limit as the unmodified PFs. If I were to cut the hole to allow the basket to fit thru, there wouldn't be much PF left.

2) The basket has a gentle taper on the sides, the longer I make it, the larger the difference in diameter of the two pieces I have to weld back together. That makes it harder :D
Also the section of "gentle taper" extends from the retaining ridge to near the bottom of the basket (about to the nose radius). If I have to lengthen anyhing such that either cut is outside that boundry, it'll be a no-go. The current cuts are pretty close to those limits...

That make any sense?

ciao

lino

Post by **bobroseman** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:58 pm

lino.

I am happy with one gram less. Make mine with what you have.

Bob

Post by **admin** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:56 am

lino wrote:Hey Guys,

The tooling I have would allow for a slightly longer basket. But there would be other issues...

1) The bottomless PFs I cut (the ones purchased from Chris) have a hole too small to allow the basket thru. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that the bottomless have the same basket limit as the unmodified PFs. If I were to cut the hole to allow the basket to fit thru, there wouldn't be much PF left.

2) The basket has a gentle taper on the sides, the longer I make it, the larger the difference in diameter of the two pieces I have to weld back together. That makes it harder :D
Also the section of "gentle taper" extends from the retaining ridge to near the bottom of the basket (about to the nose radius). If I have to lengthen anyhing such that either cut is outside that boundry, it'll be a no-go. The current cuts are pretty close to those limits...

That make any sense?

ciao

lino

lino: I know that couple of folks on this forum have purchased extra baskets from Espresso Parts in Seattle. It may be worth your while if you think you'll be making enough of these to see if they carry the preferred style of basket and whether their supplier can reliably supply them. You may get the same story you got from Chris, but may be not.

Post by **lino** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:44 am

Okay,

Here's the scoop. Next round is just about done. Had to make another jig too. These baskets are slightly smaller diameter than the first batch. I'm talking about .020" or so, but enough that I can't weld using the original jig.

Here's the yeild.
6 are good, 4 have one booboo.

1 good one is reserved

So that leaves 5 good and 4 booboos.

These are the names I have requests from and qtys (in no order):

Bob R - 2
Donn Milton - 1
Doppio - 2
Bill W -1
Barry - 2
Bill (rcgolfer) - 1 (if different from Bill W)

That's the right number if some people can deal with a "blem" basket. As I've mentioned, they are perfectly functional, they just have a repaired weld "blow-thru", so they aren't as pretty.

Price will be (and will stay at) $35 shipped for good ones and $30 shipped for blems.

I'm not established enough(with my co. acct) on ebay to sell at fixed prices, so I'll sell this batch like the last. Let's decide on this forum who wants blems or not, then once that's settled, Ill start accepting payments and shipping them out.

If there is still interests after this, I'll start on the next round.

Sound OK?

So, could those on the above list, start posting which they'd like.

thanks

ciao

lino

Post by **admin** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:36 am

I'll corroborate what lino says about the blems. I have one from the original batch with a double blem and it is fine. It doesn't even really look that bad and you can't see it when its in the PF anyway. Only you and lino will know

Post by **bobroseman** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:13 pm

I am happy with my place in line. Who wouldn't be? :D

Bob

Post by **PatRi** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:38 pm

If you end up with an extra (good or blems) i would take it.
rgds, Pat

Post by **BillK** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:58 pm

I am a new Bill. If there is a "good" one remaining when my number comes up, I'd prefer that, but either is fine.

I am new here, and I got a bottomless portafilter with my machine from Chris, so it must be made by you, Lino. Does this mean that I have some modifications to do in order to make the triple basket fit, per your comment earlier on this thread? I have access to a drill press, so if I need to make the hole bigger, please advise me on what hole saw size will work, or whatever approach you are recommending.

Post by **lino** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:38 pm

Hey All,

Looks like time to start on another batch...

Bill, No need to modify anything... Please don't take a hole saw to that PF! The triples will fit into a std. un-modified PF, or a bottomless just fine.

ciao

lino

Post by **doppio** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:03 am

Lino,
Since I am down for two, I am willing to take one good and one blem.

-Paul

Post by **lino** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:04 pm

Okay, here's the status:

Responded with requests:
Doppio - 1 good, 1 blem
Bill K - 1 good, blem if necessary

Not quite clear yet which is wanted:
Bob R - 2
Donn Milton - 1
Bill W - 1
Barry - 2

If I misundestood anyone, please correct me.

This list covers all available baskets (from this batch) provided we can divvy up the blems. As soon as we get this sorted we can move on to payment and shipping. So let's go guys, duke it out...

ciao

lino

Post by **hlsheppard** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:39 pm

Hi -

I'm definitely new to the group but I'm interested in one of these if/when they're available!

Post by **BobG** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:54 pm

I would be interested in one of these baskets if you decide to do another batch -- either a good or blem -- wouldn't matter to me.

Thanks,
Bob G.

Post by **BobG** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:06 am

Lino,

Since I just saw the posting about a 53.5" mm tamper maybe not working on your basket, if you want I can check with the LaSpaziale North America distributor in Seattle and see what style baskets they have. They have sold me some rubber portafilter baskets before, so maybe they will sell me some baskets.

Thanks,
Bob G

Post by **bobroseman** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:41 am

lino -

2 good ones, if you please (since my baskets spend more time out of the portafilter than in it)

Bob

Post by **hlsheppard** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:00 am

Hi Guys -

I posted this in another thread as well: But with my new machine - the baskets are dead-on 53mm. There is no way you could go 53.5 and have them be useable...

A tooling / supplier change at the factory??

Post by **admin** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:03 am

Lino said:

Here's the scoop. Next round is just about done. Had to make another jig too. These baskets are slightly smaller diameter than the first batch. I'm talking about .020" or so, but enough that I can't weld using the original jig.

So he obviously used these smaller baskets on the new batch of triples. I assume this means that if you don't already have a 53mm tamper and you purchase one of these you may need a new tamper. Plus if you bought one of the first batch and you are now purchasing one from the new batch, the optimal tamper size for each may be different.

Here is one possible solution the the dilemma

Post by **Barry** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:26 pm

Hi Lino, Since the number of requests is so high, please let someone else have one of mine. Just PM me where to send the funds and how you would like them for one basket, I don't care if it is blemished or not.

Regards,
Barry

Post by **lino** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:09 pm

So far the below have responded with requests:
Doppio - 1 good, 1 blem
Bill K - 1 good
Bob R - 2 good
Barry 1 good

I'll PM you soon regarding payment.

That covers all the non-blems.

Donn Milton and Bill W have yet to respond. If they haven't responded by Sunday (tomorrow) night, that they want a blem from this batch, the rest are going on ebay on Monday. I'll order the next batch of baskets from Chris' next week. That batch will go directly to ebay. I'll post here when that happens.

ciao

lino

Post by **ishcoco** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:30 am

lino wrote:So far the below have responded with requests:
Doppio - 1 good, 1 blem
Bill K - 1 good
Bob R - 2 good
Barry 1 good

I'll PM you soon regarding payment.

That covers all the non-blems.

Donn Milton and Bill W have yet to respond. If they haven't responded by Sunday (tomorrow) night, that they want a blem from this batch, the rest are going on ebay on Monday. I'll order the next batch of baskets from Chris' next week. That batch will go directly to ebay. I'll post here when that happens.

ciao

lino

Lino, I just got my machine, and would love a triple! Are there still some available? Thanks.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:43 am

I don't know how often lino checks in here when he's between basket batches. You might be better off finding one of his recent S1 Forum posts and clicking the "e-mail" icon at the bottom of the post to send him a personal inquiry.

Post by **daerider** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:07 pm

Hi Lino,
I just purchased an S1 from Chris and I am very interested in the triple baskets that you have been fabricating. I already have one of your bottomless portafilters and I think the triple basket would compliment it very well! When do you think that you will have more available?

Thanks,
Damon

Post by **okaychatt** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:48 pm

Hi lino.

Santa brought me a new S1 for Christmas, and I'd like to buy a triple basket.

Please let me know when they are available.

Thanks,
Kay (okaychatt)

Post by **cappadoc** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:42 am

Lino, I would also like one or two triples depending on availability.
Jeff

Post by **okaychatt** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:42 pm

Chas wrote:
Barry wrote:Lino, are they any easier to get out of the portafilter than the stock baskets, i.e. no screw driver needed? If so, put me down for at least two!

Thanks,
Barry
Go to Espresso Parts or alternate source and purchase a stock LM PF spring. You'd think because the LM baskets are 58mm that they wouldn't fit, but they do and they completely solve this issue.

The problem is that the S1 PF springs are made of wire about the thickness of large paper clip wire whereas the LM spring wire is about the same guage as a standard paper clip. Big difference.

I have to wait until Tuesday because of the holiday to call Espresso Parts to ask if the $8.30 shipping for the $2.19 spring can be reduced.

Of course, on another site, the spring is only $0.25, but with a $11+ shipping charge. Sigh.

Is there any chance of getting the shipping reduced, do you think, or should I just order the spring from Espresso Parts, pay the charge, and hush?

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:17 pm

I ordered two springs and something else I could use at the same time in order to ease the shipping pain.

Post by **okaychatt** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:04 pm

Chas wrote:I ordered two springs and something else I could use at the same time in order to ease the shipping pain.

Good idea, Chas.

My machine still isn't set up yet as I just got back from vacation. Hopefully by next weekend.

That should give me time to order the new PF springs. Otherwise, I'd need Herculean strength to pry those baskets loose. I don't understand why La Spaziale doesn't just use the easier springs in the first place.

Post by **sjseattle** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:21 pm

Rather than fuss with the pf spring, I removed the spring from the pf holder I use to brew; after brewing, I pick out the double filter with the puck in it and knock it out. This way I can thoroughly clean both the filter basket and the portafilter. I have 4 double filters in case I need to make several shots in a row and without the spring in the way, it's easy to go from one to another. For the other portafilter, I have the spring holding in the single basket. I use that exclusively for rinsing the head and for occasional back-flushing.

Post by **TruthBrew** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:11 pm

Lino, I'd also be interested in one or two triple baskets if you make more.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:10 pm

Lino is getting ready to order some baskets from Chris and make another batch of triples. He plans to sell them on e-Bay rather than through the forum as previously. However, he will give us a head's up here on this forum before he does so that you all can get first shot.

Check back here periodically for updates.

BTW: If anyone would prefer to ask lino questions about this directly, send me an e-mail with your preferred e-mail address or a private forum message and I'll send you his e-mail address.

Post by **wgaggl** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:11 pm

Chas,

any news on the second round of S1 triple baskets?

I'd like to have one more to equip both my bottomless and my spouts PF with them, also a friend of mine who got the S1 likes one, and I'm sure there are several members here on the forum waiting anxiously to get one.

Could you check with Lino for an update?

Thanks much,
Wolfgang

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