Steaming small amounts

Post by **ebohling** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:55 pm

It's not often that I wish to drink anything other than straight espresso. However, from time to time I may want a breve or maybe even a cap. If I am just making one drink that needs only a few ounces of milk (or half/half) what size pitcher should I use? I know most have the standard VII, but in case it matters I will have a mini-VII next week (I think there are more steam holes in the VII, but I could be wrong).

Anyway, trying to get everything squared away so I can get right to espresso making/drinking when the big girl arrives.

Post by **Niko** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:19 pm

A twelve OZ pitcher should do the trick for you.
The steam tip should be the same as the VII on the Mini, someone mentioned that they ordered a Mini - then ordered the .9mm steam tip as an extra but the smaller tip was already installed on the machine.

They both have 4-holes.
The older S1 had a 3-hole tip as well as a really old gigantic 4-hole tip that scalded milk in 14 seconds flat.
The first iteration of VII's saw the old 3-hole tip and then moved onto the standard 4-hole known today.
How's that for a tip on history?

Post by **woodchuck** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:53 am

As Niko says a small 10 to 12 pitcher will work great. I have a 10 ouncer that I use. The real trick is the tip. The original 4-hole that came with my VII was a bit tricky with 3 or 4 oz of milk (add visual here) but the newer smaller hole version works great.

Cheers

Ian

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:49 am

Yes, that looks the same as the one I use for Caps.

Post by **JohnB** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:40 pm

Which do you guys think works better? A straight sided pitcher like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Steaming-Pitcher- ... 01&sr=8-36
or a wide bottom tapered pitcher like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel-M ... 01&sr=8-36

Post by **jmcphail** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:55 pm

Just a question about the 9mm tip -

I received my Vivaldi in January '08, with a 4-hole tip, and found that it's too powerful for my meager steaming skills. I spoke with a vendor and they recommended a 4-hole, .9mm tip to slow things down, so I said "Sure, let's do that" and ordered one.

I received it today, and it seems visually identical to the tip that was already on the Vivaldi. I haven't tried using it, though, and I doubt that I could see .1mm in any case.

Are the .9mm 4-hole tips strictly alternate parts, or do they also ship new machines with the .9mm tips?

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:06 pm

I believe that the stock tip has the .9mm holes. What kind of problems have you had with the stock set up?

Post by **jmcphail** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:19 pm

I feel like I need steaming to go slower so I can learn it better. I understand about stretching 'til 100 F ( or skin temperature ) and then texturing by plunging the tip and rolling the milk until @140F, but it happens so quickly!

If the stock tip is .9mm, then I bought an exact replacement part, rather than a tip with smaller holes. :?

--Edit--

I just double-checked the VII description at CC, it mentions an optional .9mm tip. I think I bought the right tip.

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:29 pm

I may be wrong about the stock tip as CC talks about an optional tip w/.9mm holes in the V2 write up. You should try the tip that comes on the S5 steam wand if you think the stock one is fast! I like the stock tip but my thermometer lags behind it by about 10* so I stop stretching at 85-90* & cut power at 140*.

Post by **jmcphail** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:32 pm

You mention the thermometer lagging, that sounds like crucial information I hadn't thought of. Thanks!

One thing is for sure, even though my sea foam is terrible, by now I definitely know what over-steamed milk tastes like :D

Post by **JohnB** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:30 am

I find if I cut the steam right at 140*f by the time I sit the pitcher down the thermostat tops out between 155-160*f. I get nice foam with the stock tip on the S5 wand so maybe its your material or technique more then the tip. What are you using for milk?

Post by **jmcphail** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:25 am

I've been using whole milk, right out of the refrigerator, and keep the pitcher in the refrigerator, too.

I have no doubt it's my technique - I've tried using only my hand, but realized I need to use a thermometer to train myself until I know what it feels like, hopefully to graduate to barehanded steaming. It's one of those large-face Rattleware thermometers.

I'll be able to try the .9mm tip tonight, I should be able to see a difference. I make about 2 capps per day for my wife, I don't normally drink them myself, so it's a slow learning process for me.

Post by **JohnB** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:13 pm

I keep both pitchers, 12 & 20oz, in the ice cube bin so they are very cold when I add milk. I've been using several different brands of organic whole milk with good results although I get my best results using organic Soy Milk for my wife's lattes.

Steaming small amounts for Capos is tricky as the milk heats up very fast & the thermo is just about useless.

Post by **Niko** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:46 pm

Try steaming without a thermometer again.
Since it's happening all so fast for you, I'd sink the tip down to the bottom as soon as it feels even slightly warm on the sides of the pitcher. Cut off the steam as soon as it burns enough to start hurting and the temp should be in the 150-160 range when you're done.
If this doesn't work, it'll at least show what your pain threshold is in fahrenheit :D

I think you'll get it very soon with more usage

Keeping the pitchers in the freezer will extend this time for you a little so it doesn't happen so fast.

Post by **JohnB** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:12 pm

I just made a Capo & steamed without the thermo using the "too hot to hold" measuring device. I put the thermometer in as soon as I set it down & it came up to 155*F so I guess my finger tips are properly calibrated.

The milk came out quite nice with some good microfoam.

Post by **Niko** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:55 pm

I knew you are well calibrated!

....155F is too hot to hold for most

Post by **jmcphail** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:39 pm

The .9mm tip has really helped me, but I'm not calibrated yet, still using a thermometer!

Post by **jmcphail** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:46 am

Little bit more learning, kind of a "duh" moment for me - and something everybody else probably knows.

I'm finding that it helps to do stretching with LaSpaz's steam dial only partially open, and then when I plunge and texture open the dial a little more to induce a roll.

I'd been having trouble getting a roll or rotate during texturing with the steam full-on the whole time, but combining the extra steam power with the plunge seems to do the trick for me.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:38 pm

jmcphail wrote: I'm finding that it helps to do stretching with LaSpaz's steam dial only partially open, and then when I plunge and texture open the dial a little more to induce a roll.

Post by **caf4brains** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:33 pm

I've got the Mini and also found that steaming small amounts of milk to be a challenge. The solution for me was to seriously limit the time spent stretching the milk to just a couple of seconds for 4 oz of milk. Find the pitcher orientation (which depends on the pitcher shape) that incorporates the foam well so that you can switch to it immediately after stretching. I stop steaming based on sound rather than waiting for the pitcher to warm up or using a thermometer - there seems to be too much lag time otherwise, which results in milk that can get scorched.

Now if I could only turn this beautiful microfoam to a nice rosetta.....

Post by **Niko** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:09 pm

caf4brains wrote: Now if I could only turn this beautiful microfoam to a nice rosetta.....

At least you're halfway there

Can't make a great painting without good pigments...

Post by **caf4brains** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:48 pm

There was a reason I ruled out a career as an artist.....and it wasn't because I didn't look cool in a beret.

Post by **Martin** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:08 pm

Just installed my "longer" steam arm from Chris. More pleasant (though not much longer), and I think I'll like it.

Also got the new 4-hole tip--thought I'd try it. Better than the original 4-hole. However, ever since I got the Viv II (first batch shipped), I've been using a 2-hole (seem to be the same diameter as the new 4-hole) that I used on my Isomac Tea (requires a small adapter that Chris sells.)

IMO that Isomac Tea tip is far friendlier and more functional for amounts 8oz or under. So I'm changing back. Anybody looking for the "perfect" tip for that amount, consider the small 2-hole tip if they can be found.

My 2cts.

Post by JP » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:16 pm

I just got my new VII a couple weeks ago and it came with the 1.2 tip. I didn't know for sure which tip I had until I went ahead and ordered the .9 tip and compared, I could definitely see the difference.

I have to say I really didn't want to neuter my new VII with a little girly tip. I was determined to master the awesome power of the 1.2 tip. But I think it's just too much for the amount I'm doing. I'm only steaming 4 Oz whole milk in a 12 Oz pitcher. If I opened it up I'd be wearing the milk, trying to throttle it halfway was difficult and even still the milk would be up to 160 in like 5 seconds flat and it was just to quick to develop the foam.

I was getting close though with the 1.2, but then I got the .9 tip and it seems just right now. Much more controlled but still plenty of power. Right away I'm getting beautiful micro foam. It's still fast, I only stretch it for a couple of seconds only to 50 or 60 degrees by my thermometer, then I let it go full bore watching the thermometer rise up like a rocket, I cut it off right at 130 and my thermometer will keep going to top out right at 150.

I'm getting great results now, and I have to think that the 12 Oz pitcher and .9 tip is the way to go for such small quantities of milk.