MACAP Chrome Electronic Doserless Grinder

Post by **Zzyzx** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:31 pm

This looks pretty cool

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... electronic

Post by **Niko** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:43 am

Don't get me started!

Any dosing mechanism analog or digital, IMHO is pretty worthless unless you're serving the same bean over and over and over again...

I still prefer the Mazzer over my MACAP, also there's been testing done on that new doserless model and it looks like CLUMP CITY. Even my now ghetto doserless MACAP has much less clumping issues than that one for some odd reason, some people make a big deal out of it. Clumping doesn't scare me at all, in fact I would love to have that grinder next to the Mazzer in my kitchen :D

Damn, now I gotta' put the old MACAP on craigslist or something to make room.

Post by **Richard** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:01 am

Niko wrote:. . . also there's been testing done on that new doserless model and it looks like CLUMP CITY.

Do you mean this testing as posted in Home-Barista articles? If so, nearly all of what was posted was effectively retracted. In a June 15, 2007, update in that thread:

Dan Kehn on Home-Barista wrote:UPDATE:

Seeing the comparison of the grounds from the Macap M4 Electronic Doserless and Mazzer Mini Electronic, Chris Nachtrieb, owner of Chris' Coffee Service, contacted Antonio Schiavon of MACAP for his assessment. Antonio explained that the model I have is a prototype and isn't representative of the final production version. He sent a photo of the grounds from the Macap doserless production version and they appear essentially identical to the Mazzer's. Antonio also explained that the final version will have better access for cleaning the last bit of grounds from the chute.

To avoid confusing readers by continuing research of a prototype that differs significantly from the production model, this review is on hold. A replacement production version grinder is expected in 4-6 weeks. Thanks for your patience, and special thanks to Chris and Antonio for listening and acting upon the concerns of HB's espresso enthusiast community.

On August 12, 2007:

Dan Kehn on Home-Barista wrote:The production version of the Macap M4 Doserless Electronic arrived this week. Unfortunately between work, shipping out grinders to Jim, and preparing for vacation, I didn't have time to pull shots using it. . . . [in two accompanying photographs] the Mini E grounds appear to have more clumps than last time and the Macap has much less than before. . . . I'll look at this more closely when I return to the Bench in two weeks.

So it seems the jury is still out, but to my eye, with one superficial glance at the photographs, I would be hard-pressed to discern the difference in grinds between the Mazzer Mini-E and the Mazzer M4 Doserless Electronic.

Post by **Niko** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:28 pm

Yeah, that has to be the article I was reading some time ago, can't remember exactly but I recall seeing major clumps come out that thing.

It looks like the bottom line is they both (Mazzer & MACAP) clump and they take turns being the clumpier one :D
I still want that new MACAP, I better hold on for a new roaster before that happens but then again...

Post by **Zzyzx** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:39 pm

I'm really surprised they can not figure out a way to alleviate the clumping issue. This seems to be the main complaint. It seems if they made a steeper, wider shoot or maybe a slicker material that might help.

I mean, come on, for $700.00 can we not have clumps please :?

Post by **Richard** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:59 pm

Zzyzx wrote:I'm really surprised they can not figure out a way to alleviate the clumping issue.

Don't be jumping to conclusions here, folks. Go back to my my posts in this thread and click through to the photographs referenced. The so-called clumping issues were specifically related to a preproduction version. It looks as though those issues have probably been resolved in the production version of the Macap.

At the very least, wait until Dan Kehn completes his review -- yet to be done as of this date -- and posts his final observations.

Post by **Weska** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:05 pm

Might be harder than it looks to stop the clumping. I think clumping is generated by the ground coffee slamming against whatever surface is near on its way out of the burrs. If the burrs ground painfully slowly (or if they fed through evenly as conical burrs might allow), then the clumping might be less.

With a flat burr setup firing grinds directly into the nearest wall, somebody would have to design a cleverly shaped and coated wall or maybe a kind of after-burner/churn. Could be done, but not a cinch.

I have a fair degree of skepticism about any grinder producing really consistent single doses. This is an opinion in progress, but I'm finding that my dosered MACAP, which gives me great access and a good sightline into the exit area, nevertheless will not easily give me back all the coffee that I put into it. So far, it seems that I lose a tenth or two of a gram for two or three shots and then I get them back in the third or fourth shot.

My current theory about this is that the grounds are clumping in a thin sheet just beyond the burrs around the inside of the chamber in which the burrs spin. After this layer builds up a bit and dries out, it is sucked out with a later batch of fresher grinds. The inconsistency of the dose alarms me a lot more than the modest amount of stale coffee along for the ride in a later cup.

Take all this with a grain of...coffee. It's early days, and I don't have much notion how to confirm my theory.

Post by **woodchuck** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:35 pm

Gave this puppy a whirl back when Dan had it in for testing and I wanted a few pictures. As Richard and Niko pointed out it was a preproduction unit and a quick call to the factory from Chris supposedly generated an improved version. Will be looking forward to testing out the new one.

Cheers

Ian

Post by **Niko** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:35 am

I'll wait until you and Dan test the final version.
In the meantime I need to start thinking "new roaster" for this Fall/Winter

Post by **bbqnut** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:01 pm

Damn! A new toy to lust after.

I need to give up espresso, photography, or my hi-fi/vinyl hobby.

They are getting too expensive.

Post by **Niko** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:48 pm

No reason to give up the photography since it's gone pretty digital, shoot a bunch of pics and never have to print them :D
Now if espresso would just go digital...pull a bunch of virtual shots and never need beans again!

...imagine that, having a flash card that holds your coffee and you load it into the grinder (the reader) and then drink your virtual espresso

Only problem with this is the lack of a caffeine buzz...

Post by **woodchuck** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:21 pm

Niko, I'm afraid digital still has a price to pay. Even without printing. One, up front dollars for the cameras. I have 2 D2Xs and 2 D100s; two, the memory. I shoot about 500Gigs worth of pictures every four months that needs to be backed up to at least a couple of different locations. Three, computers. I keep running out of gas as the file sizes get larger. My S1 will last for years but I'm already signed up for a new D3 and my computer is again complaining about Adobe and Microsoft bloat :-)

Cheers

Ian

Post by **Niko** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:20 pm

...and I still use two Mamiya 7's, two Mamiya 645AFD's and a pair of Nikon F5's.
I'll try and squeeze every ounce of life from my film cameras.
The 35mm's are worthless, the medium formats still rock.
The D3 looks pretty cool, it has my attention...

But like I said earlier, for those not making a living from it, you can just shoot a whole bunch of digital pics and skip the middle-man (the lab), burn them all to DVD and put them away for the rest of their lives and never print them...at least my brother-in-law does that :D

Ian, when do you think you guys will get another new MACAP digital to test?

Post by **bbqnut** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:49 am

I have been shooting digital for about 3 years now.

It is not the bodies, nor the storage, nor the computers for me.

It is the lenses. I am a Canon guy, and there is always some lens I lust after. Like this bad boy for around a cool $100,000, built to order.

And I just sold a couple of lenses to buy a record cleaning machine. Is that perverted or what?

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:39 am

With that puppy you could go straight into astrophotography and wouldn't also need to buy a telescope! Though for $100K you could buy a telescope about 4x that size!

Post by **bbqnut** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:42 am

It comes with the girl.

:P

Post by **Niko** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:53 am

You're right!!
...I just noticed there's a lens in the picture!!

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:45 pm

I suppose after my recent purchase, I should say, "What girl?", but you'd know I was lying!

Post by **Niko** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:04 pm

Does it also roast coffee?
...it's got a weird looking chaff collector and I've never seen a roaster on a tripod like that before.

Seriously, what is the scale of that thing?! It looks huge.

Post by **bbqnut** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:01 pm

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:12 pm

OK, the other photo was just marketing hype, right. This is the person you really get with the lens!

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:15 pm

Niko wrote:Does it also roast coffee?
...it's got a weird looking chaff collector and I've never seen a roaster on a tripod like that before.

Seriously, what is the scale of that thing?! It looks huge.

If you point it straight up, it's 6 1/2' tall. 18" mirror. Doubles as a solar roaster by day.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:22 am

chas wrote:OK, the other photo was just marketing hype, right. This is the person you really get with the lens!

Yeah baby! "I'm too sexy for my shirt, too sexy for my lens, I'm too sexy..."

chas wrote: If you point it straight up, it's 6 1/2' tall. 18" mirror. Doubles as a solar roaster by day.

6 1/2' tall?! dAmN

Tell me you can't see me waving at you all the way out from the West Coast with that thing...

Post by **woodchuck** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:48 am

Niko, back to your question on the next Macap doserless. I think DAN actually has it now but he has been on the road for the last couple of weeks. You should see something in the next couple of weeks.

Cheers

Ian

Post by **woodchuck** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:58 am

Chas, nice telescope. Is that an Obession Dob? I have a 10" newtonian at my place in Cayman Brac.

Cheers

Ian

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:06 pm

woodchuck wrote:Niko, back to your question on the next Macap doserless. I think DAN actually has it now but he has been on the road for the last couple of weeks. You should see something in the next couple of weeks.

Cheers

Ian

What's the matter with you, Ian...
Can't you stay on topic and talk about the girl and the big lens?

...
oops, just noticed

you are on topic! Nice to hear Dan already has the current version of the grinder. I can't wait to read about it, thanks for the update.

Typical men...throw a woman in the same picture with a big piece of hardware of some kind (any kind) and we're all over it

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:51 pm

woodchuck wrote:Chas, nice telescope. Is that an Obession Dob? I have a 10" newtonian at my place in Cayman Brac.

Cheers

Ian

Yes, it is.

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:54 pm

Niko wrote: Tell me you can't see me waving at you all the way out from the West Coast with that thing...

No that won't work. However, if you are ever on the moon, let's give it a try!

Post by **woodchuck** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:31 pm

Niko, I like your latest avatar. Timely too, my latte art has just gone to hell in a hand basket over the past couple of weeks. Either its the milk or me. Weather has been brutal here in Raleigh, 100s and no rain for weeks. I'll blame it on the milk and the temps :D
Cheers
Ian

Post by **Niko** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:03 pm

Yeah, it's probably the milk...
remember that thread on H-B about milk in the summer months?
I noticed a change a couple of months ago but I blamed the Vivaldi since it can't defend itself :D

Post by **4vDesmo** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:49 pm

Ok, as much as I like girls and camera lenses, I'll be the one to revive the original topic here.

Has anyone actually seen/used/bought one of these new Macap Electronic grinders? I'm intrigued, but would HAVE to sell my M4, as I don't plan to start a Niko-style collection of equipment.

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Post by **bbqnut** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:45 pm

4vDesmo wrote:Ok, as much as I like girls and camera lenses, I'll be the one to revive the original topic here.

Has anyone actually seen/used/bought one of these new Macap Electronic grinders? I'm intrigued, but would HAVE to sell my M4, as I don't plan to start a Niko-style collection of equipment.

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

For me at $700, I am saving that money and going for the Versalab one day. I will live with my M4 for now.

Post by **Niko** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:57 pm

Not sure what I'm doing next, been thinking of a Versalab but then again it's not a priority. Got the roaster out of the way for a while, now I can continue on my cup collection but the grinder bug hasn't hit me again....yet.
I think $700 is a little high for the MACAP but that's technology for you these days, you want the latest - you gotta' pay :D