Lights still on...

Post by **Niko** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:31 pm

I went home for lunch today and was greeted by a strange light display on my VII.
Here's what it showed:
91c (on, solid), 92c (on, solid), 93c (blinking) and the standby LED was blinking.
Weird.
This had the tech at Chris' Coffee scratching his head also.
My machine is on a timer and has been flawless until this, everything seems to be dandy and fine fine now but I'm stumped as well.
I tried to hit the standy button to shut off the machine but it was already off and cold to the touch, holding the standy button for several seconds launched it like a normal start up and seemed to clear this up right away. I plan on unplugging the machine for about 15-20 minutes when I get home this evening to hopefully clear this up.
I just wanted to post this and share it with everyone.

Post by **RGoldman** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:54 am

I came home early in the afternoon last week and mine had 4 lights on and blinking as well as the on/off light blinking. The boiler was cold and the timer was off. I checked in the manual but it wasn't a warning of any kind. I turned the machine on and off and it's been fine ever since. Very strange. I was panicked that something was wrong and I would be forced to get out the old TV and drink drip coffee until it was fixed!

Post by **Niko** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:20 pm

It's been driving me crazy even thought the machine seems to be back to normal.

I've come up with 3 conclusions:
1. The Timer had a brain fart when it shut the machine down.
2. The machine went into some kind of program mode (because of the timer).
3. There was a power surge, just enough to trip the machine out.

I was thinking of relocating the wall outlet so I can install the big box surge protector, it sticks out way too much for my liking, therefore, the VII sticks out too far.
I have a surge protector on my older S1 and never experienced any problems like this with it.
Another option is to order a built-in surge protecter outlet that installs within the wall. What do think of that, do you think they offer enough protection? I know the big boxy one is pretty heavy duty.

Post by **Weska** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:53 pm

That's a bad worry, you two.

But it does sound as if it might be a trivial thing due to some weird rhythmic electrical change in the line prompting the Vivaldi to go into program or some other undocumented mode. I don't know anything about these issues, however, and can't advise--only sympathize.

Post by **Niko** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:11 pm

Bad worry as in "don't worry...it sounds like nothing" - is what I hope you meant Weska. Right now I'm reading too much into things I guess, thanks for the sympathy though.
It really sounds like the machine went into some undocumented mode that only the Italians at Spaziale would know about, unfortunately they don't speak a word of English so imagine trying to explain this to them, they'd think I'm drunk or something.
I really shouldn't worry since the machine did function properly after this incident. At first I thought it went into the Offset calibration mode but it didn't match any of the lighting diagrams. I think a change of voltage somewhere along the line of powering off did this, the timer does change the voltages for the cycles it produces. Somehow it must have sent the wrong signal or some frequency in my house did this. My house has some weirdness going on with one of my computers, every time I blast steam out of the Spaz or fire up a burner on the range, the computer wakes up from sleep. It only happens to this one particular computer and not to the other four. It's a frequency or voltage "thing"...I think, I hope...

Post by **RGoldman** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:09 pm

Well... It hasn't done it again and it's working fine so I'm not going to worry about it for the time being. Although, if something does go wrong, I'm heading to Niko's until it's fixed since he has a "spare".

Post by **jackiechang** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:27 pm

It's the silicon in the chips. It will never be 100% predicable. Reset, reboot - it's part of life now. Welcome to the computer world.

Post by **Niko** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:50 pm

Damn.
Now my machine sports silicone implants!
I knew there was something sexy about these Vivaldi S"exy"1's.
Oh wait...you meant "silicon". I always confuse the two.

I'm 99% sure it's the timers fault that did this to the board or silicon or whatever it was.

RGoldman wrote:Well... It hasn't done it again and it's working fine so I'm not going to worry about it for the time being. Although, if something does go wrong, I'm heading to Niko's until it's fixed since he has a "spare".

Ron, you're more than welcome to come on over to use the spare.
I should make it a loaner model like they do at car dealerships.

RGoldman wrote:I was panicked that something was wrong and I would be forced to get out the old TV and drink drip coffee until it was fixed!

I'd rather drink battery acid!

Post by **Bud** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:12 am

Ok, any time I hear of these

Post by **Niko** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:22 am

Man I'm overcaffeinated or something...
I completely missed the part about "TV".
Dah! He meant TechniVorm...next time I'll read more carefully, it's just that other (lesser quality) drip coffee makes me shudder.

[quote="Bud"]Ok, any time I hear of these

Post by **Bud** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:41 am

Dah! He meant TechniVorm...next time I'll read more carefully, it's just that other (lesser quality) drip coffee makes me shudder.

Most drip makers do not get up to proper brew temps to make a palatable cup of drip, the TV does. Yes, most drip coffee makes me shutter also. What's funny is that my friends and family know I like coffee, when visiting, and I get offered a cup (just freshly bought)- they are suprised if I turn it down, or when I do accept the offer, I have to struggle to keep a smiley poker face

What one does; not to insult the mother-in-law

Bud

Post by **Niko** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:05 am

You're polite.
I've had to run to the sink and spit coffee out when nobody is looking and I also had to use my poker face to hide my discomfort.

I still blame my light dances on the timer. I've been using the timer several times a day now just to make sure it works, it fires morning, noon and night but I'm reprogramming it tomorrow to return to its normal state of one timed cycle per day.

Bud, did you get the timer? I remember you mentioned something about it on another thread.

Post by **jackiechang** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:26 am

Niko,
Check to see if there's any way static electricity could be part of the cause.

Post by **Bud** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:56 am

Bud, did you get the timer? I remember you mentioned something about it on another thread.

Niko, I didn

Post by **RGoldman** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:20 am

Yes, the TV does make the best drip coffee I've ever had, but since getting the Spaz, the tv has been sitting in the pantry unused..... It's there just for emergency use at this point. I also have a french press that doesn't see any action lately. That's for my wife when I'm not home to pull a shot for her.
Time to go roast or things are going to be ugly around here Friday morning....

Post by **Weska** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:57 pm

In fact, La Spaziale headquarters in Italy has a woman who answered my inquiry about where to buy a Vivaldi very nicely and in excellent English. When the first lead she gave me didn't pan out, she gave me another that did. We exchanged quite a few e-mails. I was really impressed that she took the time to help me with purchasing a single low-end unit, especially since leading ordinary consumers to retailers almost certainly was not part of her regular duties.

The whole thing was a nice additional confirmation that La Spaziale is a good choice. It was important to me to feel that, even without Chris standing behind it, the Vivaldi still has good customer support.

If you ever do need to address La Spaziale directly, I think it will not be difficult.

Post by **Niko** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:14 pm

Wow I'm surprised.
I heard the lead engineer for them doesn't speak a word of English, I assumed he would be the man to talk to about this sort of thing.
I'm ordering a surge protector for the VII as we speak, my other S1 already has one installed.

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:59 pm

Her name is Annamarie. Steve Johnson, a group member who hasn't posted in a while, toured the LaSpaziale factory last year and posted pics of the tour. Annamarie was his personal guide. Unfortunately those were posted during the 2nd half of 2006 when I lost all the posts. If Steve sees this I hope he will repost them. He had a photo of the "S1" assembly line. See what Chris says about that below.

Here's the original e-mail exchange I had with Chris about it:

Chris:

S1 Owner and S1 Forum member Steve Johnson toured the La Spaziale factory while in Italy and just posted the pix he took. Thought you might be interested.

Chas

From: Chris Nachtrieb
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 4:17 PM
To: 'Chas Rimpo'
Subject: RE: La Spaziale Tour Photos

I have been there on more than one occasion. Annamaria is my direct contact at La Spaziale. Those S1's they were making were mine. I have an order in for 100 NEW Vivaldi II's

Chris

---------------------

Post by **Niko** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:38 pm

Chas,
What do you make of this weird "light" thingy?
Did anything like this ever happen to you with either S1?

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:25 pm

Well, there was a full moon about that time....

Post by **jackiechang** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:00 pm

chas wrote:Well, there was a full moon about that time....

I like this 1 even better.
Niko, Do you still ask why every time your computer has a glitch. Lets hookup and make some good roast.

Post by **Weska** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:50 pm

Right you are, Chas. As I recall her e-mail address, her name is Anna Ciani--or something close to that. Charming and patient. I even badgered her a bit about delivering my machine with a dual manometer (this was before the debut of the VII), and she talked with the engineers before getting back to me.

Post by **Niko** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:31 pm

I can write her with a description and what lights were on if you give me her email address. She can then forward the info to the right person to diagnose or just say that it was some undocumented program mode.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:49 pm

If you just write to info@laspaziale.com, I bet she'd be the one that responds.

Post by **Niko** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Thanks.
I'll give it a shot tonight.
Maybe I should attach a small pic to illustrate the situation, I'll retouch the lights on a Spaz display to better describe it.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:12 pm

After several emails back and forth, Las Spaz wrote me with an explanation that tells what possibly caused the problem.
If you ask me, I think they're correct in saying that a power surge is to blame. I've had surges do other things in the house before.

Here's the last email:

DEAR NIKO,

THE TECHNICIAN NEVER HEARD OF A SITUATION LIKE YOURS.
ANYWAY, HE SAID THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM WITH ELECTRICITY THAT
INTERFERED WITH THE CONTROL BOARD AND MADE IT "GO CRAZY" FOR A WHILE.
I THINK IT SHOULD BE SOLVED SIMPLY LIKE THIS.
WRITE TO ME IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND!

Post by **RGoldman** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:31 pm

Yep.... That's exactly what mine looked like. I wasn't home when the timer shut it off that morning so I don't know when the lights started blinking. Turning it on and off fixed it and it hasn't happened again. Lets hope it was just that full moon thing.....

UPS just showed up with a big box of green coffee! Brazil Daterra yellow bourbon, Brazil Boa Sorte natural bourbon and I am trying SM's espresso blends for the first time and also their decaf espresso. I still need to roast the Vivace de-caf this week. So many greens, so little time....

Post by **Niko** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:57 pm

UPS just showed up here and dropped off my Mazzer Mini E Hepatitis Type B. I really look forward to dialing it in...NOT. I think I'll keep using the MACAP to drink from until I adjust the Mini Me, man where do they come up with these names? Next there will be a grinder called the Canker Sore XL.

Do you happen to have any Panama Boquet (Maunier Estate)?-I'm dying for some and I'm almost out.

Post by **RGoldman** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:23 pm

Geez... I have a hard enough time saying "LaSpaziale".

No Panama here except for some of the Gesha I have left over. For some reason, the Panama coffee's just haven't done anything for me. Maybe I should add the gesha to one of my espresso roasts.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:54 pm

Somehow this Panama slip passed me under the radar. It was OK I thought and then I tried a couple of things and it BLEW MY SOCKS OFF. Wheh! YEEeeOOooWEEee!! It not only taste so fine it made me shake like a monkey in a tree on 16 grams of crack or something. I roasted it with a longer profile and then pulled a ristretto and that's when it hit me.
I'd trade you some gold coins for this stuff.

Post by **jackiechang** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:09 pm

Niko wrote:
Do you happen to have any Panama Boquet (Maunier Estate)?-I'm dying for some and I'm almost out.

Come over. I still have about 3 lb. left. And some Tanzania.

Post by **jackiechang** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:38 am

By the way Niko, What profile do you use for your panama?

Post by **Niko** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:08 pm

I use an iRoar2 and I break it up into 5 stages.

350@1:00
390@1:00
405@2:00
425@2:00
450@5:00

I slowly work it up to temp because this bean scorches easily, delaying first crack is the name of the game without baking it, there's a fine line between this here. First crack hits usually at 430 with this bean on this profile just when the roaster switches gears into the last stage. I don't let it go all the way to the end, that's there in case I take the iRoar outside and the ambient temp is cooler.

Post by **Weska** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:35 pm

Good to hear that your blinking light situations, Niko and RGoldman, look like transitory flukes.

Post by **jackiechang** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:03 pm

Niko,
Do you recall if you have used your machine that morning.
Came home today and found the machine acting the same way. Lights on, but everything cold. Turn it off and back on and it was fine.
The only thing different this morning was that I had rushed out of the house without pulling any shots. The machine was turned on by the timer, and 3 hours later turned itself off by the timer. Is this the scientific explanation we have been looking for?

Post by **Niko** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:23 am

jackiechang wrote: Come over. I still have about 3 lb. left. And some Tanzania.

Thanks Jackiechang, just got the Panama beans from your messenger service. Really appreciate it! I'll have to hook you up with some good beans as a thank you.

jackiechang wrote:Niko,
Do you recall if you have used your machine that morning.
Came home today and found the machine acting the same way. Lights on, but everything cold. Turn it off and back on and it was fine.
The only thing different this morning was that I had rushed out of the house without pulling any shots. The machine was turned on by the timer, and 3 hours later turned itself off by the timer. Is this the scientific explanation we have been looking for?

Yes, actually I did use the machine that morning and the timer did its job by turning the machine ON, I didn't stick around to see if it went OFF - I usually do but not that morning. So when I got home at lunch time, I found those lights on but the machine was cold.

So it's 3 machines so far that have done this! I'm beginning to suspect the timer and not the machine or simply a power surge in your house as well? I don't know...we all need to keep a close eye on this and so we can tell Chris and Spaziale if it starts becoming an endemic.

Post by **jackiechang** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:49 pm

I wonder if it's power surge within the unit itself. Like if just when the timer is shutting down, one or both boiler kicked in. Mine has the Spaz timer what about you guys?

ScottW · Post by **ScottW** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:04 pm

Just another data point -- maybe a pattern will emerge.

I setup my VII with the LaSpaziale timer last November. Since then, it has been turning on at 4:30am daily (6:30am weekends) and off at 8:30pm. I have turned it off manually, before the 8:30pm auto shutoff, about twice a week on average.

So far, I have NOT seen the problem described in this thread, nor any other problem. The timer has worked flawlessly (except for having to manually update for DST).

I have the S1 on a dedicated circuit, with one of the Isobar surge suppressors.

...Scott

Post by **Niko** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:44 pm

Something to keep an eye on for sure.
Mine's on a surge supressor right after this incident.
I also have an Isobar surge protector on my older S1 with no problems ever.

Post by **RGoldman** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:31 pm

I guess I will look into a surge surpressor too. I haven't ever had an issue here with power causing a problem other than being off for too long in the winter!
Mine is on the Spaz timer. It comes on at 4:30, shuts off at 9:30, comes back on at 4pm and shuts off at 10pm every day. I have turned it on and off in between timer cycles with no problems. Other than the one incident, it runs perfectly and we pull shots from it every day. I can't imagine a morning without it now!

Post by **Niko** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:55 pm

Ron,
There's two styles of surge protectors that we know of so far, thanks to Chas. If room is not an issue for you, I'd recommend the big beefy Isobar surge suppressor that several of us are using. The newer slimmer style works really well also, the utlra slim profile allows you to use it in any tight quarters since the outlets are located on the sides. I have both styles and I couldn't recommend one over the other since they do the same thing, it's really a matter of taste.
Check out this thread, you'll see both styles and a link from Chas on the new style:
http://www.rimpo.org/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=362

ScottW · Post by **ScottW** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:00 am

The strange lights phenomenon hit my S1 last night!

The machine had been on all day, with the timer set to turn it off at 8:30pm. I walked by at 9:10pm, and found the following light combination:

Boiler - off
91, 92, 93, 94 - on (solid)
95 - blinking
On - blinking

A single press of the on/off button had no effect. Holding on/off for a few seconds turn the machine on -- the lights reset correctly and the machine started warming up. I turned it off and went to bed.

This morning, it turned itself on correctly and is working just fine. It is on a surge suppressor, and we didn't have any kind of power surges or interruptions yesterday.

So... Not really a problem, just more of a curiosity!

Post by **Niko** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:50 am

Sorry to hear about your machine doing the same thing.
I exchanged emails back and forth with Chris about this a couple of weeks ago, he said he'll keep an eye on it in case it becomes a problem and he'll talk to LaSpaz's engineer about it if it reaches to that point.
In the meantime, keep an eye on yours and report back on this thread if it happens again and others should do the same, I gave Chris a link to this thread so he knows about it.

I still think it's the timer for some reason and jackiechang had a good point, I was thinking the same thing actually, the timer might be shutting down at the same exact time when the boilers are both about to fire and it causes a little surge of some sort within the controller board. This is all just a little computer error that easily gets cleared up but it's still annoying to find a machine this way when you walk into a room.

ScottW · Post by **ScottW** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:33 am

Niko wrote:This is all just a little computer error that easily gets cleared up but it's still annoying to find a machine this way when you walk into a room.

I agree. And actually, it is *possible* this has happened on my machine before, and I just never noticed it. That is, it could have happened at 8:30pm when the timer turned the machine off, and cleared itself at 4:30am when the timer turned it on again.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:52 am

ScottW wrote:And actually, it is *possible* this has happened on my machine before, and I just never noticed it. That is, it could have happened at 8:30pm when the timer turned the machine off, and cleared itself at 4:30am when the timer turned it on again.

You make a valid point, this could've happened more than once and to other people who just haven't noticed it "yet".

Post by **StuBaby** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:53 am

Hmmm, the name "Spaz" is starting to gel a bit. Maybe we should give it another name and hope all these weird things stop

Post by **Niko** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:01 pm

OK.
Let's call it "The Special".
Isn't that what La Spaziale means in Italian anyway? Just a guess, if anyone knows what it really means please do tell us.

Stu,
How are you and your machine doing?

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:05 pm

I think it means "the space".

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:45 am

The Spaz is never Off unless it is unplugged. When you press the On/Stby button or the timer signals the stby state, the software has to do a number of things not necessarily in this order:

1) Turn off both heater elements and stop monitoring the heat sensors
2) Turn off the fan
3) Turn off the pump
4) Turn off the group temp lamps
5) Blink the On/Stby lamp until another On condition is detected.

It almost sounds like there is some rare event or sequence that can occur which causes the Spaz to miss step 4.

Post by **Niko** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:20 pm

It's starting to make more sense now that you point that out. It's kind of like a computer when at start up, it does a POST (Power On Self-Test) if it fails at any step it just hangs. The Spaz seems to do the same thing at startup with the LEDs, they all light up at first (kind of like a test) and then the proper LEDs stay on to indicate the state of the machine. A computer system has to properly shup down, you can't just unplug it or hit the power button, the Spaz timer just cuts it off abruptly enough to cause this sequence to be off enough to cause some of the LEDs to stay on and others flashing.
Just guessing here...

Maybe for the timer v2.0 they can make sure things do happen in a sequential order to prevent these LED malfunctions from happpening?

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:35 pm

It happened to me for the first time tonight. The timer should have turned the S1 Off an hour ago. I walked by and noticed the lights on but then realized that the On/Stby light was blinking while the 91-95C lamps were all lit solid.

This seems to corroborate my theory that the timer occasionally gets into a mode where it turns the S1 off but fails to extinguish the temperature lamps in the process.

It's probably a combination of the timer signal in conjunction with software timing.

Post by **Niko** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:32 pm

Chas,
I hate to say this but...
I'm glad it happened to you also.

This is starting to be a common thing among VII owners with timers.
I never had any issues with my non-timed S1 and I know you never had any problems with your old S1 either.

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:41 pm

Niko wrote:Chas,
I hate to say this but...
I'm glad it happened to you also.

Post by **Niko** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:36 pm

I'm speechless...

Post by **jackiechang** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:56 am

Has anyone had this happened more then once?

Post by **Niko** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:25 am

NOT YET.
But keep on eye on it.
Let's see who's the 1st to get it twice!

Chas,
I like the guy on the toilet better!

Post by **woodchuck** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:58 pm

Nope, she is still running like a top after 6 months.

Cheers

Ian

Post by **jackiechang** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:28 am

Wonder if it's like chicken pox. You are immuned once you had it??

Post by **Niko** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:32 am

Yeah, and then it turns into "Shingles".
I hope my machine doesn't get the Shingles.

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:30 pm

It happened to me for the 2nd time tonight.

Post by **Niko** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:08 pm

Was it the same sequence of lights, Chas?

Post by **jackiechang** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:41 am

Sorry to hear that chas. Did you see how it happened?

Post by **Niko** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:19 am

That's a great question jackiechang!
No joke, I'm also very curious if you actually saw it happen, Chas.

Ever since that one afternoon a couple of months ago, I've been watching my timer shut off the machine like a vulture waiting for a prospective carcass to stop moving.

I'm putting my money on the timer being at fault.

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:39 pm

No, I didn't see it happen but it was an exact duplicate of what happened the first time as I described in the May 1st post.

Post by **Niko** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:42 pm

According to your May 1st post, one of the lit LEDs was the 95C.
Was the operating temp set at 95 when this weird timer thingy happened to you both times?
What I'm trying to say is that mine was set at 93 so it made sense (kind of) that the display was blinking that LED.
Somehow, I get the feeling that you're a 94C kind of guy.

It seems that this little error is just random at what lights decide to stay on and/or blinking.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:47 am

Niko wrote: Was the operating temp set at 95 when this weird timer thingy happened to you both times?

Yes, it was. I am pretty sure this glitch just leaves the temp lights in the exact same state they were in when the V2 turned off.