compak K10WBC

Post by **comrade** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:20 pm

Good Afternoon,

Just wondering if anyone with this grinder could post a pic of it beside their Vivaldi. Like to get an idea of size.

Much appreciated.

Rob

slo · Post by **slo** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:08 pm

Here is Peter's setup. I also was curious about the size when I remembered that picture he had posted in another site.

: Compak K11 002.jpg (95.87 KiB) Viewed 57548 times

I am so tempted by this grinder!

Post by **comrade** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:55 pm

Thank you kindly. I was concerned with the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).

Post by **Endo** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:12 pm

If you look closely, you may notice the grinder is on a stool below the level of Vivaldi, and it also has a tiny custom hopper. I played with this grinder several times and make no mistake, it's a 40 lb BEAST.

But lets face it, this and ANY giant "gumball" grinder (from the SJ and up) will have zero WAF. The only grinder with any WAF cred is the Vario, with its "cute" little blue light.

So you might as well just suck it up, get whatever grinds the best..... and balance it out with jewelry for her.

Post by **comrade** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:54 pm

Ya I know. I have the vario and its cute but frankly I think it is the achilles heel in my setup. Thankfully my wife likes really good quality stuff and I can see her warming up to the big grinder. For her I think its the cost.

Cheers

Post by **oton** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:30 am

The hopper from the pic is the Compak's mini hopper (called gourmet hopper)

Post by **Endo** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:41 am

comrade wrote: I have the vario and its cute but frankly I think it is the achilles heel in my setup.

Vario is no "achilles heel". Your coffee and technique will have a MUCH bigger impact than any grinder upgrade ever will.

Post by **JohnB** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:33 pm

comrade wrote:Ya I know. I have the vario and its cute but frankly I think it is the achilles heel in my setup. Thankfully my wife likes really good quality stuff and I can see her warming up to the big grinder. For her I think its the cost.Cheers

My wife was/is the same way. From the first time she saw the Vario up on the counter where the Major used to sit until it was sold she had nothing good to say about it. Luckily I soon felt the same way! Now there is a Bunn G3 holding down the end of the counter & she has no complaints. The K10 is a light weight counter ornament compared to the 59 lb Bunn that stands a majestic 27" tall.

Buy the K10! You will love it & never regret the decision. If you single dose with no hopper it only stands 16" tall.

Post by **JohnB** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:43 pm

Endo wrote:Vario is no "achilles heel". Your coffee and technique will have a MUCH bigger impact than any grinder upgrade ever will.

Maybe but if you have good coffee & you know what you are doing which would you rather have sitting on the counter? Factor in ease of use, consistency, build quality, RELIABILITY & there is no contest.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:00 pm

Endo wrote: ....So you might as well just suck it up, get whatever grinds the best..... and balance it out with jewelry for her.

Hopefully one would not have to balance the weight on both as well

Post by **comrade** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:05 pm

ok, "achilles heel" certainly was not meant to sound like I dislike the Vario because I do not. My technique while not perfect by any means and my current beans are from Red Bird are top notch. I am just looking down the road a bit and warming my wife up to the idea. As my technique improves I am hoping that an upgrade in grinder will pull out the subtle flavours more. I can't see the physical quality of the Vario holding up forever. Thanks for all the feedback.

Cheers

Rob

Post by **expy98** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:21 pm

Endo wrote:
comrade wrote: I have the vario and its cute but frankly I think it is the achilles heel in my setup.
Vario is no "achilles heel". Your coffee and technique will have a MUCH bigger impact than any grinder upgrade ever will.

I can't let this go w/out repeating myself again...

The day I got the same-burrs-as-K10 Pharos, I've never pulled another shot w/ my SJ. There's no way no how I'd ever use a SJ-class flat burr grinder again.
Knowing what I know now, if the Pharos costs as much as a new SJ, I'd still buy it and be just as happy. Fortunately, it's only 1/3 the price.

If cost is an issue, try the $245 solution to see if your achilles heel moves elsewhere before you get the K10.
If WAF is an issue, more reason for the Pharos, just put it away after you're done.

That said, get the K10, there will be a long line for it should you don't like it. Can I take a number now?

Someone on HB once said about various techniques, "just get a better grinder". IME that has been true,
I no longer WDT, ramakin, nutate or whatever, just dump the grind straight onto the basket, tap on counter a couple of times
to somewhat distribute the grind if the pile is far off-centered, then tamp at whatever, light or lots, and all is good. Despite
all sorts of "techniques" w/ the SJ, I never got anything near what I can get w/ the Pharos w/ basically no techniques.

slo · Post by **slo** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:02 pm

expy98 wrote:
Endo wrote:
comrade wrote: I have the vario and its cute but frankly I think it is the achilles heel in my setup.
Vario is no "achilles heel". Your coffee and technique will have a MUCH bigger impact than any grinder upgrade ever will.
I can't let this go ...

Me neither! I am sorry to disagree completely. The taste that is achieved from various grinder is no subtle differences. It can be huge!
I have a B-Vario, had 2 of them a one time, and I love the little grinder. It is not a bad grinder by any measure. It should not be considered the Achilles heel of anyone setup but an upgrade to a bigger better grinder WILL brings a difference that is not insignificant. Specially the difference between a B-Vario and a large Conical ( I use my 63mm conical grinder to make this claim. Never tried a 68 at home.) like the OP suggested K10.

Sure technique is important but there is no way that anyone can compensate for a grinder's effect on taste in technique.
Coffee is not even to be discuss. Garbage in - garbage out. There is no machine or technique that changes bad coffee in good coffee yet.

Feel free to just ignore this little outburst

Post by **peter** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:01 pm

Gentlemen, I've been away for a bit, but see Whale dug up an old photo... Endo's observant eye noticed my K10 sitting lower than the countertop the VII sat on. Since that photo was taken my kitchen was remodeled, which included a nook for espresso (long story, but some thugs forced their way in 14 months ago while I was home, and shot up the house on their way out, so insurance paid for some of it). This perspective may give Rob a better gauge as to the height with the smaller hopper.

: Schatzie 8-22 002a.jpg (66.05 KiB) Viewed 57445 times

Post by **comrade** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:52 pm

That is a much better perspective Peter thanks for posting.

Warm Regards

Rob

slo · Post by **slo** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:28 pm

Peter, I love the "Nook in the sun".

Post by **dgasmd** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:46 pm

As a suggestion, you can always get the Compak K3 doserless. Very very nice once dialed in. Matches this machine very well.

Post by **gene** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:40 pm

I had a nice chat with Chris about the very subject about two weeks ago. Was asking for Mary, she was out, and lo and behold Chris came on the line.
Was considering plunking down $1400+ to get something besides my Vario to go with my S1. I didn't want the Fresh as I wanted to single dose.
Asked Chris about the no-frills K10.

This is where I admire Chris at Chris's Coffee and his entire staff:
Chris "Why do you want a K10?"
I want optimal espresso taste.
"What is wrong with the Vario?"
Subjectively speaking, it may not produce a full flavored shot compared to the K10. I read everything I can get my hands on about grinders and the K10 rocks.
"Save your money, theres not enough difference for you to notice it".

Thanks Chris, and my wife will really thank you because I've saved the money to purchase your K10. We have argued all winter and she finally threw up her hands yesterday and said get it.

When I first called Chris year and half ago to inquire about S1 he seemed very abrasive and I hung up the phone after two minutes. I later bought the S1 dealing with Mary. I reciprocated the abrasiveness at that time so it may have not all have been him.
Then I called for Mary two weeks ago, she was out and Chris picked up the phone. What a difference!
This is only the second time I have ever talked to him. He has now made a believer out of me.
You have to admire a merchant that will talk himself out of a sale because he has deep principles. That is refreshing!

Post by **JohnB** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:28 pm

That's fine if you want to believe it but I've owned both & there IS a world of difference between the two. As I've mentioned before you have to take into consideration ease of use, consistency, ability to single dose, grind quality, build quality as well as what's in the cup. Use a K10 for one week & you would never go back to a Vario.

Post by **peter** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:36 am

gene wrote: When I first called Chris year and half ago to inquire about S1 he seemed very abrasive and I hung up the phone after two minutes. I later bought the S1 dealing with Mary. I reciprocated the abrasiveness at that time so it may have not all have been him.
Then I called for Mary two weeks ago, she was out and Chris picked up the phone. What a difference!
This is only the second time I have ever talked to him. He has now made a believer out of me.
You have to admire a merchant that will talk himself out of a sale because he has deep principles. That is refreshing!

He recognized your voice, and this is his way of getting even with you, convincing you'd be happy with a lesser grinder. He's smirking at this very moment, knowing you'll never get the shots your machine is capable of.

slo wrote:Peter, I love the "Nook in the sun".

Thank you.

comrade wrote:That is a much better perspective Peter thanks for posting.

Warm Regards

Rob

You are welcome.

Post by **expy98** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:59 am

I've read somewhere that the only logical upgrade from the Vario is the Robur E...

slo · Post by **slo** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:20 am

expy98 wrote:I've read somewhere that the only logical upgrade from the Vario is the Robur E...

That is a bit extreme! Clearly there are a few steps between the B-Vario and the Robur as there are between the B-Vario and the K10.
Be aware that these steps are not all improvements. Since everybody has different taste preferences.the difference between two grinders may be an improvement for one and a loss for another. Taste profile outcome of a grinder is very hard to predict or describe.

Post by **Endo** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:01 am

gene wrote: "Save your money, theres not enough difference for you to notice it".

Truer words have never been spoken!

expy98 wrote:I've read somewhere that the only logical upgrade from the Vario is the Robur E...

I gotta agree with that as well.

What I tell people is: "The first thing you should buy is a great grinder, the last thing you should buy is the best grinder."

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:21 am

I may buy the Pharos just for the fun of it and will do a blind test experiment against the Vario.

What I can tell you for my combo: a Vivaldi (auto-volumetric dosing), Vario W (auto-weight), Espro tamper (calibrated pressure), is that I am getting great consistency with so little effort - an experience that is hard to match.

Post by **expy98** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:38 pm

haha, I just made that up, thinking I'd pick the 2 extremes, the 54mm flats vs the 71mm conicals.
IMO it's like comparing a Fiesta to a Ferrari. Not saying which is better (altho I have my druthers),
just different...

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:56 pm

:), I am sure everyone will pass a blind test and distinguish the cars (you still have to see the road somehow though). I am not sure about the success rate with the two grinders - it will be less than 80% I would bet.

Post by **comrade** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:11 pm

So I'm sitting with my kids on the chesterfield watching some TV before bedtime and the UPS guy shows up at the door. I was expecting a small package so I wasn't surprised to see him although he also had a fair sized box accompanying the smaller expected one. I'm thinking hmmm what could this be. Its dark so can't quite see whats on it. I open the door and see that its a Compak box and I'm thinking "did my brother have a grinder shipped here" (he is seriously thinking about a Strega). I here my wife run up the stairs from the basement overhearing me talking to a strange mans voice. I sign for the boxes and he leaves. I look at my wife as she has a BIG smile on her face.........What a gal. She bought me a lightly used K10WBC from idrinkcoffee.com. Can't wait to get it dialed in.

Cheers

Post by **peter** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:02 pm

Can't beat that with a stick, comrade!

Post by **oton** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:00 am

comrade wrote: I look at my wife as she has a BIG smile on her face.........What a gal.

Ha! That's great

comrade wrote:I'm thinking "did my brother have a grinder shipped here" (he is seriously thinking about a Strega).

What equipment have your brother now?

Post by **JohnB** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:56 am

Sweet!! Check out the K10 mods on H-B & enjoy.

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/co ... 14728.html
http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/co ... 18277.html

Post by **Endo** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:51 am

Nice.

(Although that cheap, cracked plastic chute looks like a Baratza part.)

Post by **JohnB** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:09 am

Cheap?? That's an $11 part!!

No cracks, just some scratches I put in the plastic that the flash made look much worse then they really are.

Post by **maxcr** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:09 pm

Thought you guys might enjoy this: Conicals

Post by **Endo** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:43 pm

maxcr wrote:Thought you guys might enjoy this: Conicals

Why do I hate this woman?

Post by **Endo** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:38 pm

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a K-10 WBC (if I can sell my Mazzer). I must be crazy.

Post by **az erik** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:30 am

Endo wrote:
gene wrote: "Save your money, theres not enough difference for you to notice it".
Truer words have never been spoken!

expy98 wrote:I've read somewhere that the only logical upgrade from the Vario is the Robur E...
I gotta agree with that as well.

What I tell people is: "The first thing you should buy is a great grinder, the last thing you should buy is the best grinder."

Every bit of this is true. I sold my K10 to find the S1 purchase as I stepped down from it back to the silencio and possibly down to a k3 with mods to quiet it. Size isn't a huge issue but I didn't get enough in the cup to justify the 10 from the 6. This is how I upgrade

Post by **Endo** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:04 am

Interesting you moved down from a K10. I think you are the first I heard who ever did this. Is there anything else you didn't like about it, besides the small taste difference? I must say, I'm still on the fence since I'm not too excited about the cheaper plastic bits on the K-10. (I love my Mazzer's build quality and total lack of plastic parts, so I am torn).

I may go for the K-10 Fresh rather than the WBC, since I could then sell my Vario as well. Decisions, decisions.

Maybe Oton can tell me about he feels about his K-10 Fresh to help me decide.

As far as taste goes, since I own a 68mm conical Pharos (which will also likely go back or be sold if I get the K-10), I know exactly what the taste difference is like. As most would say, the difference is small compared to most other influences, so a $2000 grinder is still the last thing you should buy. But when you have exhausted all other influences and already have several espresso machines, grinders, roasters.... there are only a few things left that can make as big a difference.

That's where I am coming from. I would never recommend a K-10 Fresh to anybody except those extreme espresso hobbiests on the absolute "bleeding edge".

Thanks for you feedback on the K-10. It's nice to hear an opposing view since most owners on the espresso forums rave about theirs.

Post by **JohnB** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:54 am

He sold the K10 to pay for the Vivaldi & according to his equipment listing he misses it. The K6 is Compaks Super Jolly. I suppose it depends on what you normally drink for espresso. I keep trying various blends in my Major but I always switch back to the K10 next shot. The Major does make a kick ass Decaf grinder though.

Endo - You own a Vario & you are complaining about a couple pieces of plastic on the K10??

richardcoffee · Post by **richardcoffee** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:50 am

I think, consistent with the reviews on H-B, I can't so much discern a taste difference between my K10WBC and my Pietro T-80 as I notice a difference in ease of use. The T-80 is plenty easy to use, but the K10 is so much easier. I almost never need to adjust it. I can go from Metropolis Red Line to Paradise Decaf and make no adjustment - just as an example. I'm sure I could do without my K10, but I don't want to. If anyone had ever told me I'd spend over $1000 for a grinder, I'd have said they were crazy. But I did and I don't regret it. Espresso has turned into an expensive hobby, but I really don't have other bad habits - except, perhaps, an affinity for my IMAC and IPOD and IPAD.

slo · Post by **slo** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:01 pm

JohnB wrote:I keep trying various blends in my Major but I always switch back to the K10 next shot. The Major does make a kick ass Decaf grinder though.

For me it is the B-Vario that is in Decaf duty now.
If I were a single dose grinder I would probably settle on a conical for the ease of switching between different beans. But I dislike single dosing and allow myself the luxury of having more than one grinder to switch from coffee to coffee.
I find that the Major does a great job, period, but that it is best with a hopper load (relatively small but still some even top pressure). I like the flavour output best with bright and acidic beans or blends as it blends out the edges.
I look forward to try a K10 if it can put a Major in a decaf station...

Post by **Endo** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:49 pm

I sold my Super Jolly, so I now have only my Vario.... and the Pharos as a backup.

While I hate the plastic bits, imprecise grind change (it doesn't swap from fine to coarse), and the general fragile nature of the Vario....it is hard to beat for convenience, speed, space and relatively good taste. Like I always say....it's the perfect match for the Vivaldi IMO.

When I want "all out taste", or if the Vario is in for repair (say for eating a rock)

, I just switch to my 68mm conical Pharos and Cremina setup. I do this mostly on the weekends when I have more time (or want to enjoy total motorless espresso nirvana).

I'll see if I can live with this 2 grinders setup for a while, since I don't see myself compromising in any way in either taste OR convenience. (My wife loves all the extra counter space too). If after a while I feel a unresistable need to combine the convenience of my $250 and $450 grinders and spend an extra $700. I'll sell them and combine it with the money I got for my SJ.

That's the plan, Stan....for today anyway.

Post by **az erik** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:38 pm

Honestly most of my reasoning for parting with my K10 was that I couldn't get enough difference in the cup and who needs 2 ful size grinders when only brewing 1 coffee. The k6 had been a craigslist pick up for a song, with new burrs she was rocking along. I got the K10 due to all the hype, it was an improvement, but for my pocketbook not a near $1000 improvement. So after getting my kicks with it for a couple weeks I sold it in a heartbeat to a local shop, put less than 5 #'s through it really. I got hit with 'New shiny car syndrome' and then realized it wasn't the end all be all I thought, however I was also playing with a HX that I still can't get 95% consistancy due to timing. So 50% remorse 50% reality in my part.

Post by **JohnB** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:22 am

As I said before it does depend on what you are using for a blend. I can't imagine anyone not noticing a big difference when grinding a fruity single origin or blend with the K10 vs one of the large flat burr grinders. The flat burr grinders are fine for comfort food chocolate blends but you lose the individual flavors in the more interesting Single Origin/Blends.

Post by **az erik** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:58 pm

<~ drinks mostly iced lattes. Not a ton of flavor left with a double double into 14 oz of milk. When I do drink caps and straight shots I miss the K10, but it's seldom. Perhaps I'll pick one up again down the road. I do miss it but like not having 2 full size compaks on my counter, wife likes the counter more, she just got the heads up the s1 will put it back to my old claimed space.

Post by **Endo** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:44 am

JohnB wrote:As I said before it does depend on what you are using for a blend. I can't imagine anyone not noticing a big difference when grinding a fruity single origin or blend with the K10 vs one of the large flat burr grinders. The flat burr grinders are fine for comfort food chocolate blends but you loose the individual flavors in the more interesting Single Origin/Blends.

That's exactly what I notice with my Pharos as well. But an important side note is that the S1 is not the best machine for these SO's either, since it tends to mute these flavours. My conical works best with my lever machine. The Vario (or equivalent Mazzer SJ or Major) works best on the S1. The K10 can not be used to its full potential on the S1 in my opinion. And since it is a LOT of money, you're best off with a Vario (or used SJ) in my opinion.

This equipment pairing is a very subtle thing, and nobody should be too worried about it. It's mainly a comment for those crazy few folks willing to spend $2K on a grinder.