1.5 Years on

[java man]

I've been running my Mini Vivaldi II for nearly 1.5 years now, and thought it was time to update my experiences with it.

It has been rock-solid reliable for the past year +. I had a slight problem when I came back to home after 2 months abroad, but it was quickly sorted out. Nothing on the machine has ever broken, it starts every morning on the timer, and it just sits there and does its job.

I've become quite accustomed to the non-plumbed inconvenience of the pourover and drip tray. (My last machine was fully plumbed in.) It's a very minor factor except when hosting a dinner party.

Friends who frequent local cafes using LM multi-group machines say my espresso is as good as the best they've tasted, and that includes some pretty formidable competition (Artigiano, Brazza, Elysian, etc.) The Vivaldi is very easy to use, and I get very consistent results, shot after shot. Sink shots are very rare now, perhaps 2%, and only when changing from one bean to another. I'm sure a lot of the credit goes to the La Cimbali Max Hybrid I bought at the same time.

Overall, this is a very impressive machine. I'm very pleased with my decision to buy it, and I haven't had even the slightest twinge of upgrade fever, even though Mark Prince let me pull shots on his GS/3 and his Speedster.

If anyone is browsing this site trying to decide on the Mini, don't fret. Just buy one! You won't regret it.

[Endo]

After almost 2 years, I'm pretty happy with my Mini too. No problems at all.

Blasphemy (I know), but to be honest, I still prefer a 58mm PF taste though, and I can't say the steam quality is perfect either (though it has awesome power).

But no machine is perfect, and when you look at the whole package and compare it to all other machines out there, I have no doubt the Vivaldi (and perhaps the Alex Duetto 2) are the best machines out there, until you get up the the $7000 GS/3 and Speedster range.

Still, knowing what I know now, if I was to get another machine, I may consider living with a little less, like a Bezzera BZ10 (with grouphead charge heaters). I'd save $800 and could put it toward a better grinder, like the K-10 WBC. (But then again, I'd miss the S1cafe).

[slo]

...but to be honest, I still prefer a 58mm PF taste though...

Far from me to dispute your or anyone taste preference (that would be completly futile IMHO). While it may very well be true that you prefer the taste of espresso brewed on a particular 58mm machine (or all of them!), the only way that you could back up this statement is to try a machine that is rigged to handle 53 and 58 mm baskets. Otherwise How can you tell that it is the basket size that makes the difference.

Yes, most likely the extraction will be different and also the taste is likely to be different. I am not saying that there is no difference but how can the difference be attributed to the basket size?

P.S.: I have this nagging feeling that this must have been discussed before... If so educate me please!

[Endo]

While it may very well be true that you prefer the taste of espresso brewed on a particular 58mm machine (or all of them!), the only way that you could back up this statement is to try a machine that is rigged to handle 53 and 58 mm baskets. Otherwise How can you tell that it is the basket size that makes the difference.

Fair enough.

But I still tend to think basket shape is one of the biggest determining factor (I may be wrong, I can reference no taste tests to back this up). Water temp, pressure and pre-infusion are all adjustable on the Vivaldi and I've played with all of these and can't say I can match the 58mm. The only other factor I can think of is water dispersion. And actually, I even tried different dispersion pucks (star pattern and circular), without any noticeable difference.

I don't want to imply the Vivaldi produces a worse taste. I prefer the Vivaldi for many SOs and brighter blends (like the Ritual Double Rainbow I'm drinking this week).

Some of the other members who have owned both machines might want to comment as well.

[slo]

... and I've played with all of these and can't say I can match the 58mm.

May I ask from what machine this 58mm basket was attached to that you cannot match the taste with your Vivaldi?

I can never get as good a shot from a NS Oscar or a Rancilio Silvia as I can with the Vivaldi. Both are 58mm machines! Neither can even approach the Vivaldi taste with my old Avanti machine, which is also a 53mm basket.

I am sure that the size of the group head as an impact on the extraction. Good or bad, I do not know.

[Endo]

May I ask from what machine this 58mm basket was attached to that you cannot match the taste with your Vivaldi?

I've tried all the E-61s (Quickmill, Rocket, Elektra, Isomac, Cimbali etc). Tried most the top end stuff too (Marzocco, Faema, NS Aurelia, Kees, Synesso, etc). No Slayer yet.

The one that impresses me the most is the Synesso Cyncra. Can't seem to make a bad shot. This may be my next machine.

I also tried the Oscar and used to own a Silvia as well. As you say, these are not so good. I think it has something to do with the dispersion.

[JohnB]

The one that impresses me the most is the Synesso Cyncra. Can't seem to make a bad shot. This may be my next machine.

Or maybe it will be that used Speedster over on CG?? You could drive out & pick it up as it's only a couple Provinces away.

[oton]

Some of the other members who have owned both machines might want to comment as well.

Not owned but tasted shots from Synesso, Marzocco, and Simonelli... the main difference I find it's in the taste spectrum lower end -the "bass notes"- it seems that it produces more chocolatly, more sweet, some kind of "dark taste" that you can taste at the finish which I can't reproduce 100% in my home.

I'm talking about high end machines, not 58mm standard machines, so I'm not sure if the difference is exclusive to the 58mm PF. Anyway, say that "I prefer 58mm to 53" is dangerous, someone who enter here and read this kind of things, is going to discard La Spaziale machines inmediatly.

[Endo]

Or maybe it will be that used Speedster over on CG?? You could drive out & pick it up as it's only a couple Provinces away.

Don't think I didn't notice! Very tempting. Although Saskatchewan is not really next door. Quite a bit further than Florida for me actually.

Not owned but tasted shots from Synesso, Marzocco, and Simonelli... the main difference I find it's in the taste spectrum lower end -the "bass notes"- it seems that it produces more chocolatly, more sweet, some kind of "dark taste" that you can taste at the finish which I can't reproduce 100% in my home.

Yes. That's what I taste as well. Unfortunately, these blends are the ones I like most.

Anyway, say that "I prefer 58mm to 53" is dangerous, someone who enter here and read this kind of things, is going to discard La Spaziale machines inmediatly.

Funny you should say that. I occasionally get e-mails from people about to buy a Vivaldi who are worried about the steaming power or taste because I have discussed these areas. I guess that's to be expected since there are lots of people looking at the Vivladi (it's popular) and it's also a LOT of money for someone just getting into espresso. I usually reply telling people these are not problems, only differences they should try and experience on their own before deciding.

Online though, most people seem more concerned with the plastic sides than anything else. I'd bet way more people pass on the Vivlaid for that reason alone (now that's sad).

[JohnB]

Don't think I didn't notice! Very tempting. Although Saskatchewan is not really next door. Quite a bit further than Florida for me actually.

Ya, I know, I've ridden across Canada a couple times on motorcycle trips. Still it would be a great excuse for a road trip!

[oton]

Some of the other members who have owned both machines might want to comment as well.

Not owned but tasted shots from Synesso, Marzocco, and Simonelli... the main difference I find it's in the taste spectrum lower end -the "bass notes"- it seems that it produces more chocolatly, more sweet, some kind of "dark taste" that you can taste at the finish which I can't reproduce 100% in my home.

I'm talking about high end machines, not 58mm standard machines, so I'm not sure if the difference is exclusive to the 58mm PF. Anyway, say that "I prefer 58mm to 53" is dangerous, someone who enter here and read this kind of things, is going to discard La Spaziale machines inmediatly.

Hmmm.. I must be add, that the shots with ultra-high end machines I've tried has been grinded with conical grinders like Robur... So, probably the espresso machine isn't the only factor.