Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

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opaqueportafilter
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Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by opaqueportafilter » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:38 pm

Been dialing in a used Vivaldi S1 VII that I recently purchased. I have two questions --

1. It has a rotary pump, but I'm still noticing a fair amount of vibration on the manometer gauge. I'd expect this with a vibratory pump, but I thought this was uncommon for a rotary pump. Is this level of vibration normal?

2. As you can see in the video, the pressure is at about 10 bars (or 9.5) without the portafilter in. Once I put in a portafilter with a double basket and coffee, the pressure is around 10-11.5 bars, depending on grind. Do I need to decrease the pump pressure? What would you advise?

Any help is appreciated! Here's the video...

https://youtu.be/AD4ZKLqR7Tk

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chas
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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by chas » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:25 am

I hear a rumbling noise that exactly matches the shaking of the manometer needle. That noise shouldn't be there. It sounds like something is loose inside.
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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by opaqueportafilter » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:14 am

Thanks Chas. I'll investigate.

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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by opaqueportafilter » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:16 am

Thanks Chas. I'll investigate. Any thoughts on the pressure level?

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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by chas » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:59 am

Ideally you want 9 bar at the puck when pulling a shot. Since the manometer tube is attached near the output of the pump, the pressure shown on the manometer will be higher than the pressure at the portafilter except when you have a blind basket installed. If you are using the pressure gauge value when pulling a shot you should be in the ballpark if you set the group pressure between 9.5 & 10 bar. Before doing that you should probably adjust your expansion valve as outlined in the user's manual. You'll need to change the pressure setting to adjust the expansion valve. Afterwards you can readjust the pressure setting for correct group pressure.

Normally I would have blamed that rumbling noise on something relating to the motor or pump. However, you appear to be using preinfusion. I hear the rumbling noise before and after the pump runs in addition to while the pump is running.

It will interested to hear where you discover the rumbling noise is coming from. I don't suppose it's something as easy as the bolt holding on the dispersion disk being loose???
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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by opaqueportafilter » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:00 pm

So glad you mentioned the rumbling! I opened the front, and it turns out that the manometer itself is missing the screw that is supposed to hold it in place (see photo.)

But now my trouble is -- I can't figure out where to get a replacement screw or what size... Any thoughts?

Hopefully once I can screw the meter in, the rumbling will cease.

Here's the photo...
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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by chas » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:07 pm

It's been a while since I had the S2V2. I now have a Dream. I'll check to see how it attaches. It may or may not be the same as the V2. There is either a bolt that threads into a hole in the chassis or else the bolt goes through the chassis hole and then a washer, lock washer, and nut go on the back side.
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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by chas » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:13 pm

My memory was correct. On the Dream the gauge is actually screwed to the front panel.

Hopefully the V2 just has a hole so that you just use a nut, bolt, and washers. In that case it really doesn't matter what size you use so long as it's not too small and still fits through the hole. It may even be a slot depending on the age of your machine. I think that moved to that design later to allow some adjustment to align the gauge better with the hole in the front panel.
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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by opaqueportafilter » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:53 pm

Thanks again, chas.

Unfortunately I've secured the manometer, however it didn't stop the vibrating.

I guess I'll take the top and back off and run it and see if I can see what's moving.... This is new terrain for me...

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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by chas » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:43 pm

I didn't think that was going to be the issue. The manometer might have rattled but not rumbled.
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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by opaqueportafilter » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:21 pm

I solved the mystery -- the rumbling is most definitely coming from my flojet. This is a plumbed in model, but it's "plumbed" into a 5 gallon water jug.

Since the flojet is pretty budget, I'm assuming that it doesn't provide the most even of pressure, hence the quivering gauge...

But this still makes me wonder if I should lower the bar pressure just a touch so that it's closer to 9, since it's consistently around 10-10.5 with a portafilter in...

Thoughts?

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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by chas » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:23 pm

Ah, you left out the most important piece of information. To get rid of that vibration you need to add an accumulator tank.
https://www.amazon.com/Flojet-Mini-Accu ... lator+tank

BTW: The rotary pump machines just give a boost to the incoming pressure. So if you have 3 bar coming in, the pump is set to provide the remaining 6 bar. Therefore, every time you do anything to change the incoming pressure you have to readjust the pump. When you add an accumulator to get rid of the vibration wait until you add it to reset the pressure. And you do need to add it. The top of the puck is seeing these wild, rapid pressure surges as well, which isn't doing you any favors in the cup.
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Re: Vivaldi S1 VII - vibrating manometer and proper pressure?

Post by opaqueportafilter » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:46 pm

Yeah, sorry about that. Omission by ignorance. This is my first time with a direct plumb, so I wasn't really thinking of that.

But I'm very thankful that you mentioned the accumulator tank! I'll order one now...

Much obliged, chas. You're a rockstar on these boards...

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