S1 Vivaldi II - Flow problems

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frachlitz

S1 Vivaldi II - Flow problems

Post by frachlitz »

I have a new (used) Vivaldi i have just plumped in - everything works, except.... well brewing espresso.
After a lot of trial and error i have concluded that there is flow/pressure problem in the group.

(please note - this is a bit special machine. It is a Vivaldi II but in a Vivaldi I houseing, apparently only sold in Italy - so only boiler pressure manometer).

It showes when you brew, at first i thurt it was due to my inexperiense with 53mm, I went from 2-3 on my K30 WBC to around 7 (both my Izzo Duetto and Quickmill was around 2-3 on the grinder for the "perfect shot"). No luck. (i have disabled preinfusion in my testing efforts).

- When i try to turn on the pump without a portafilter there comes an normal flow the first 1-2 seconds but after it almost stops to a drip.
-I get around 80g water in 1 minute without a portafilter.
- When brewing there is no drops for 20sec and then suddenly i get 40g in 30 seconds.
- No or very little crema (fresh roasted coffee i have very good experiense with)

I have tried a lot:
1. Problem with my plumbing? No - when i disconnect at the machine and open i can fill 1 liter in a couple of seconds.
2. When i empty 800g water from the steamboiler, it fills in about 40-50 seconds without any problems.

A couple of videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63hVqvrg4y0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6zlMedHq5I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbmFxm-ZEMs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEA36WO8VmE


So what can be my problem? What would you recomend? I can see a valve, expansion valve, 3way-valve and flowmeter from the pump to the grouphead.
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chas
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Re: S1 Vivaldi II - Flow problems

Post by chas »

Here are the things i would check from easiest to hardest.

1) Remove the bolt holding on the two shower screens and the dispersion disk, With those parts removed try some more shots and note if you see the same low flow or if it returns to normal. If you get normal flow, then check to see that the holes in the screens or the dispersion disk are not plugged and then be sure to replace them correctly - larger screen goes on first.

2) At this point, if you have not already done so, backflush thoroughly with espresso cleaner such as Cafiza or a similar product.

3) Remove the grate from the drip tray and pull some shots. Check whether water is flowing out of the expansion valve and into the drip tray while the pump is running. There should not be any flow. If water is coming out of the expansion valve a temporary fix is to tighten it just enough so that water does not flow out while pulling a shot.

4) If water is coming out of the expansion valve (or even if it isn't) your next steps are to adjust the expansion valve to spec and then adjust the group pressure to ensure that it is set to 9 bar. At this point any further troubleshooting is meaningless unless these adjustments are properly made. For these adjustments you will need to either buy or make you own portafilter pressure gauge. Anyone owning an espresso machine without a built-in group pressure gauge needs one of these sooner or later.

If you use the search function on this forum you will find a number of old threads from the pre-VII days showing how people made their own PF pressure gauges. You can buy gauges with the attached plumbing that screws directly to the bottom threads on any PF from an espresso supply shop or you can buy a standard water pressure gauge at the hardware store along with a couple of proper sized nuts and copper tubing to make your own.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
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chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
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Re: S1 Vivaldi II - Flow problems

Post by chas »

One more thing once we get you past this group flow problem - the steam boiler refill time is long and probably mean you have some mineral deposits in one of three places along the cold water path into the steam boiler. It's an easy fix and you are OK for now.

When the blockage grows to the point where boiler refill exceeds 60 seconds, the machine will throw an alarm at every steam boiler refill and turn itself off. You then have to unplug the S1 and plug it back it to clear the alarm.

At this point you probably still have many months until you get to that point. On the other hand, if your water is softer than the previous owner's, it may take even longer.

FYI: with all those mineral deposits removed, the steam boiler normally refills in 10-15 seconds.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
frachlitz

Re: S1 Vivaldi II - Flow problems

Post by frachlitz »

Hi Chas, thanks for you input - i started someware else, recomended to me by the old owner.

1. I checked the flow out of the tube from the pump - 800g in 11 sec - no problem
2. Checked the flow out of the T with the expansionvalve - 800g in aprox 12 seconds - no problem

I then decided to take apart the 3-way at the grouphead, the T with expansion valve and the flowmeter and all tubes between and descale.
There were som "gunk" in the flowmeter and small bits of... metal? but else no scale of any importance.
I descaled and cleaned, and put it back together.

And it is defently better!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azPIRp6lwCE

This video shows a finer! grind than my previus attempts but delivers first drops after a few seconds and 30g of coffee in aprox. 20 seconds - so a big improvement!

Now i just need a new manometer for my portafilter (the old one is broke, does not react) to check the pressure.
Ohh yes - and now i have a leak at the water in connecter at the steam-boiler.... :-)
michael
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Re: S1 Vivaldi II - Flow problems

Post by michael »

chas:

I have the too long steam boiler refill problem; at the 60 second point +

could I get a little instruction on how to fix

thnx 8)
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