Can't open the brew boiler!

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jfrescki
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Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

I posted on an old thread about my Mini throwing a 15A GFCI. Turns out it's the brew boiler element. I received the new element and attempted to get the brass lug off the back of the brew boiler. NO WAY. I started off with a piece of scrap wood and a hammer like Endo suggested in his blog. That didn't work. I then tried a large screw driver and hammer as Tim @ Chriscoffee suggested. That didn't work. I pulled out a large adjustable wrench and got that on the lugs. I was pulling so hard, the frame of the machine was flexing and torquing.

Anyone have any other suggestions? I guess I could try a penetrating oil, but I don't want to get that in the boiler.
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

The good news: WD-40 and 20 minutes let me open up the brew boiler. There was almost no scale at all inside, and I was able to replace the element.

The bad news: I guess all the pounding before I used the oil dislodged or broke something because the machine is dead :oops: . No lights whatsoever when I plug it in. I checked the fuse on the bottom, it's fine. I also jiggled all the connections I could find to see if something came loose.

2013 has been bad for me and espresso. I just got back my Vario from Baratza that needed major repair after 3 years ($130), now looks like I'm going to have to get the Mini worked on too on top of the cost of the new element.
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by chas »

There is also a 5A fuse on the controller board itself. If the vibration from the hammering broke the metal filament in that fuse the controller board will not be powered.
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

Thanks, I will check that tonight!
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

Thanks Chas. It wasn't the fuse, but it was the ribbon coming from the front control panel. The connector had fallen out from the vibration. The spaz is up and running again.

I am a little disappointed that the element failed just out of warranty. Especially since there was almost no scale. My water is very soft to begin with, and I run it through Chris' filter/softener, so it must be "just one of those things". But it forced me to go through the machine thoroughly which will be great for the future.

Not sure how many people had to actually replace the element themselves. I know Endo has had his boiler apart for regular cleaning, but I'll pass on what I learned and what Chris Coffee told me. When you get the new element, it doesn't come with the sheath that the temperature probe sits in. You have to remove it from the old element. La Spaziale uses silicon to hold the probe in, so you first have to remove the silicon with a pen (safer) or awl. Then you can remove the probe. Once the probe is out, you need a 5mm hex driver to unscrew the temperature probe sheath. La Spaziale uses a putty on the sheath, but Chris Coffee said to use teflon tape to reinstall.

Be careful when removing the probe. I didn't get rid of all the silicon because it was a PITA, and I just pulled on the probe wire. I actually removed the thermocouple from it's metal cover, which got stuck inside the brass sheath. I didn't realize this until I heard the cover rattling inside the sheath. I was able to get rid of all the silicon, dump out the cover and get the thermocouple to stick back inside. The probe now just sits in the sheath because I didn't re-silicon it.

The arrow in the picture below shows where the silicon was holding he probe in place. Once the probe is removed, this is also where you use the 5mm hex driver to remove the sheath.
IMG_20130214_211710.jpg
IMG_20130214_211710.jpg (175.7 KiB) Viewed 21626 times
EDIT: I was also able to remove the control panel box without first removing the ground wire nuts in front. It was a bit of a squeeze, but well worth the trouble. I labeled the wires entering the back of the control box first 1-7 with a P-touch label maker, so it was very easy to reinstall the wires.
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

Well, it seems like my brew boiler element just failed almost exactly 3 years since I replaced it and created this thread. My Mini is tripping my GFCI again, and if I take the leads off the element, the machine will power up, so I'm pretty sure it the element. It was also about 2.5 years old when it failed the first time in 2013.

Is anyone else experiencing this kind of failure rate? I do leave the machine on 24/7, but I didn't expect this. Or is this my dumb luck? Could this be something to do with my water? I've always used softened/filtered water (Chris Coffee service 10" filter and softener). When I opened up the boiler in 2013 there was almost no scale. I've descaled the machine twice since I've owned it. The second time about 6-8 months ago.

This may push me on to another machine as much as I love the Mini. I know I haven't had problems like Bob with his Dream, but still. In 5.5 - 6 years I've: Replaced the brew element (will be twice), replaced the pump in 2015 (I know 5 years is average), outright removed the pre-infusion chamber in Jan 2015 because it failed and leaked (which was an improvement). Or am I just being a baby? :mrgreen:
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

So I spoke to Chris Coffee and was told the following useful information. The tech told me that if you leave the Mini on 24/7, and don't use it for a few hours, pressure builds in the brew boiler. Of course pressure in the boiler can lead to water infiltrating the boiler element. He suggested that if you're going to leave the machine on, to periodically hit the brew button throughout the day to help alleviate the problem.

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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by goodboyr »

Some of us have all the luck......
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by chas »

Most people that leave their machines on 24x7 do so because of the notion that the heating and cooling cycles from turning the machine on and off do more harm than leaving the machines on all the time. Of course, as you have found, there are other things that wear out faster when the machine is left on.

As far as I know, no one has ever tried to do a cost analysis of each situation to determine which way will cost you more in the long run. (I currently only run my machine for 12 hours a day.)

BTW: The Dream models actually have a feature that would address your issue though that's not really what it is for. Supposedly, Europeans prefer to leave their grounds in the PF between shots. In order to keep the grinds from drying out and sticking to the screens and PF, this feature, when enabled, turns the group on for 1-2 seconds every 20 minutes in order to moisten the puck.
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by adagan »

This:
BTW: The Dream models actually have a feature that would address your issue though that's not really what it is for. Supposedly, Europeans prefer to leave their grounds in the PF between shots. In order to keep the grinds from drying out and sticking to the screens and PF, this feature, when enabled, turns the group on for 1-2 seconds every 20 minutes in order to moisten the puck.
sounds CRAZY!!!!
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by steve96822 »

I have had luck using an oil filter wrench. The king with an adjustable chain grasp loop. Use a new wrench as you dont need motor oil around your coffee machine. You can also wrap a rag around brew boiler rear plate to protect surface. You can slip a pipe over the wrench end to increase leverage.

There is a special wrench for this but I never needed it as the above worked well.
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

Good idea. I'll try it this go-round if it gives me trouble.
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

Ugg, so I received the new boiler element from Chris Coffee and it's bit bigger than the old one, so that it's touching the end of the boiler and I can't tighten it down. Also there was an alignment pin that stuck out of the element plate that went into a receiving hole in the boiler, the new element has a hole instead of a pin!
20160201_191652_resized.jpg
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Also, it looks like the failure point for the old element is at the very end where it almost touches the boiler to begin with. A longer element is not going to help.
20160201_190017_resized.jpg
20160201_190017_resized.jpg (405.09 KiB) Viewed 20883 times
I emailed Chris' service, but won't hear back until tomorrow.
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

Roger at Chris Coffee sent me another element. He went through the bin and said some were longer, but no one else has complained about the fit. Well the new one is the same size and too long!! :oops: I'm wondering if I have an abberant boiler. I sent the picture below to Chris Coffee tonight. Does anyone else who's been in their brew boiler have the same torpedo shaped "hump" at the end? This is what the element is touching. It was also the cause of my last element's failure. I put an arrow pointing where the old element almost touched and left a "burned" patch.
Boiler.jpg
Boiler.jpg (623.04 KiB) Viewed 20850 times
No matter how much I move or jiggle the element, there's always enough room for a screw driver to fit between the plate and boiler. It would never tighten down and create a seal without HULK strength, and then the element would be in contact with the boiler.
20160203_181434.jpg
20160203_181434.jpg (453.58 KiB) Viewed 20850 times
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

Chris Coffee contacted La Spaziale about my boiler element problems and ordered some new elements to see if they got a shorter version. La Spaziale didn't get back to them, and the six or so new elements were all the same length. Tim suggested the only thing left to do was gently bend the element down so it would not hit the back of the boiler.

I did bend the element, but it still "kissed" the back of the boiler. My last element definitely failed because it touched or almost touched the boiler, so I wasn't going to force the issue here. Even if it worked for a while, I'd be looking at another failure down the road.

What I ended up doing was cutting the element and leads off the failed one with a dremel, which left me with just the brass end plate.
cut bad element
cut bad element
20160206_100854.jpg (710.83 KiB) Viewed 20809 times
I then attached the plate to a piece of scrap wood and cut out the center using a drill press and 1.5" hole saw, to create a spacer.
plate attached to jig
plate attached to jig
20160206_112435.jpg (739.84 KiB) Viewed 20809 times
center cut out of element plate
center cut out of element plate
20160206_113443.jpg (936.47 KiB) Viewed 20809 times
Spacer on new element
Spacer on new element
20160206_113758.jpg (713.58 KiB) Viewed 20809 times
element w spacer installed
element w spacer installed
20160206_132223.jpg (782.66 KiB) Viewed 20809 times
So far so good. I'll report back if I have any problems, but the spacer seems have given me the room I need to install the element....hopefully without another failure!
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

My only guess about all this is when they manufacture the boiler, they cut the threaded end as a finishing step and mine was cut a 1/4" too short or so. Maybe there was a small defect La Spaziale cut off during the finishing instead of scrapping the boiler, and I ended up with a boiler just a hair too short.
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by Futahaguro »

jfrescki wrote:Does anyone else who's been in their brew boiler have the same torpedo shaped "hump" at the end? This is what the element is touching. It was also the cause of my last element's failure. I put an arrow pointing where the old element almost touched and left a "burned" patch.
My boiler has it. I need to check my element to see if there is a hot spot because it looks like it might be touching at the end!
DSC_0084.jpg
DSC_0084.jpg (632.93 KiB) Viewed 20290 times
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by jfrescki »

I'm surprised they build the machine with such a tight tolerance between the element and the boiler wall. If you're worried it looks like you could create enough space by bending the element down slightly. That's what Chris Coffee initially suggested to me.
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Re: Can't open the brew boiler!

Post by Futahaguro »

So here is an amusing screw up when I selected the parts to order. When I was looking on Cafeparts.com I was looking at the Brew Group S1-s3-s3-spazio-new section, http://www.cafeparts.com/productDetail5 ... 9&ItemID=0 , so that I could order the correct brew element gasket. Well, that is the wrong diagram for our machine:) I noticed that the actual diagram is the Brew Group Professional, which Rudy at Cafeparts.com has changed to reflect the fact that it is for ours as well (Brew Group Professional-S1) http://www.cafeparts.com/productDetail5 ... 8&ItemID=0 . Rudy was very helpful and changed it very quickly.

So anyway since I was looking at the "wrong" diagram I order the "wrong" part, the teflon gasket part number 48976. This part actually seals two parts of the boiler together so in essence it is designed to seal the water just not for the element. Anyway, I wanted to put the machine back together so I put in the teflon gasket and SURPRISE, it worked! I have run the boiler through a few heating cycles and there are no leaks. I will continue to bench test it to see if anything leaks but the bonus of this gasket is that it moves my heating element out just so slightly that hopefully now it will not hit the end of the boiler.

One thing that happened though is that I broke the pin on the heating element. When I was cranking down on the metal collar the entire heating element twisted and snapped the pin. I took the pin out, so it wouldn't be in the boiler, and rotated the element 90 degrees before the final tightening. That way I got a good quarter turn on the collar to snug it down.
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