Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

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cliffbar
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Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by cliffbar » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:29 pm

Looking for further direction getting this used

Thanks to chas I have a new pump installed. But on further inspection it seems I have a unit that overheated and things blew.

Issue:
At no time does 120v go to the water PUMP or to the Steam Boiler. Group Head has 120v and heats up nicely.
The Steam Boiler as signs that it overheated at some point, the lead connectors were brittle and fell apart when disconnecting
Noticed the fuse box was bypassed. <<< is this common to do does this machine have issues here ?

Troubleshooting I have tried.
1) ( Again I am a newbie to this machine so I am not sure I am testing or turning the system on correctly )
Powering the unit on with power and water buttons pressed for > 3sec ( As well as just turned it on ) I tested Voltage on the pump leads, ( pump disconnected ) . No voltage at any time
2) Tested Voltage over the steam boiler leads, with the above power on tests and no voltage ( See attached image )

Questions and Recommendations?
1) Am I testing correctly?
2) I read somewhere about programming time Preinfuse time could cause issues. I don't see a preinfusion installed but what else should I check here.
3) If the power is gone how come it is OK on the group head ?
4) What is the part number / product I need to order to fix the power unit

Again thank you for your input.
Regards
Attachments
20180327_194253.jpg
Thanks,
Cliff
La Spaziale s1 mini. Exobar Lever, Kompak K6 with home made programmable grind timer.

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GDK
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by GDK » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:16 am

I see your meter is set to measure DC, you shall switch to AC.

cliffbar
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by cliffbar » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:54 am

Thanks for the reply. The angle of the photo makes it look as if it's set to DC , but it is on AC..

Thanks, it's these small things often takes hours to trouble shoot.

Is there any schematic on where to test for voltage or resistance. This weekend I hope to take the thing to pieces test each component as best as I can.
Thanks,
Cliff
La Spaziale s1 mini. Exobar Lever, Kompak K6 with home made programmable grind timer.

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GDK
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by GDK » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:50 pm

Right, the knob is not sticking out but is recessed. Have you seen this:

https://www.chriscoffee.com/v/vspfiles/ ... 02010).pdf

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/Lasp ... lookv2.pdf

cliffbar
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by cliffbar » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:31 pm

Thanks so much that second document is exactly what I am looking for, that's going to be a great help. WIth that I feel confident stripping the system and cleaning and test each component of the unit... EEEK hope it goes back together again !!!!

Can you qualify which knob . Not aware of this ?
Thanks so very much
Thanks,
Cliff
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GDK
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by GDK » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:59 pm

I was referring to the knob on your volt meter and why I was confused :)

I hope all goes smoothly. BTW, older Minis use triac to turn on/off steam boiler. When boiler it is on, a small fan below the control board kicks in to cool that triac and noise is quite audible. With newer models, they introduced a relay in place of the triac and removed the fan, in which case you should hear a click when steam boiler turns on and off.

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chas
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by chas » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:14 pm

Any luck yet? It sounds like you might have several things that are in need of repair or replacement. I would have also gone with checking out the steam boiler triac as recommended by MDK, except for the fact that you say the pump isn't getting power either even when you do the two button press pump prime option. A failure of the steam boiler triac wouldn't cause the pump to not come on in that case and the pump should certainly come on if you press the one or two-cup buttons.

The symptoms really do sound like the Timer On/Off switch is in the wrong position. I think you said that you checked to be sure it was in the Off position, is that correct? However, the switch change is only sensed after the machine is unplugged and then plugged back in. Have you done that step? If you have done that and its still no-go, you may want to open up the controller box to be sure the plug attached to the wire from that switch has come lose from its connector on the controller board.

One more thing to potentially simply your troubleshooting. It's always possible that somehow the switch was rotated 180 degrees so that when it looks like it's in the Off position it's really On and vice versa. You originally changed the switch setting when the pump was fried so it's always possible it was already in the correct position in spite of the labels. If you try this just remember to unplug for at least 5 seconds and the plug back in after changing the switch.
Chas
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by chas » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:28 pm

Also, we may need to know more about your machine. If purchased in the US we could be sure it is an S1 V2 Mini. However, if you purchased it in Canada it could be an S1 Mini.

Are the group boiler temperatures on the front panel in 1C or 5C increments? Do you have a single round steam boiler gauge or a rectangle gauge that shows both steam and group boiler pressures? When you first plug in the machine, do you get either 3 yellow or 3 green LEDs blink once or nothing blinks?
Chas
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by cliffbar » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:11 pm

Again thanks for the great feedback. Have not had as much time to pull the beast apart but a couple of tests based on your feedback.

Yes, no power to the pump line when hot water or Power and water buttons pressed at startup.

I did retest the timer switch as recommended, unplugged waited for a minute and tied once more. I got no joy. Did the test twice with switch in both positions in case the label was rotated. It was shipped to me with the timer switch set on position, so I do feel you are onto something and will take the controller box out and check the connections.

I am up in Canada Label shows S1 Mini Vivaldi ( 2011 yr build and IPX2 under the power label if that means something )

I do have a Rectangle gauge that shows both steam and group boiler pressures

Boiler Temp goes up in 1c increments

On plugging the unit in I get 3 yellow lights for a second (94,95,96) then on/stby flashes green

Again thanks for the help.
Cliff
Thanks,
Cliff
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chas
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by chas » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:55 pm

Three blinking yellows means your controller board is in V2 mode, which is correct for your machine.

For both timer installed/not installed and the 15/20A switch, there is just a two pin jumper connector for each on the controller board. In the early machines before they put the controller board inside a plastic box you would just manually install or remove a jumper. Now that LaSpaz has added the plastic box they made a pair of two wire cables that plug into one of the jumper pin connectors and then terminates in a switch. So it is possible that the connector came loose or one of the wires broke.
Chas
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by cliffbar » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:29 pm

YAY Seem to be getting somewhere !!!

Opened up the controller box to find FUSE in controller box Blown !!! .. . 5Amp 250 V ( t5al 250v fuse) fuse in in there which seems right.

Internal Controller board does not show signs of water damage burst capacitors or circuit "Frying " so hope it's just the fuse :grin:

Again could not have gotten this far without everyone's help.
EXcited Thanks,!!!

Cliff
Thanks,
Cliff
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chas
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by chas » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:04 pm

I must have remembered wrong. I thought your group boiler was heating up which should not happen with that fuse blown. Hopefully I remembered wrong because if that fuse is blown AND the group boiler was still heating up that, could mean that the group boiler triac is shorted on. However, we'll cross that bridge if there is still an issue after you replace that fuse.

Plus once you get past that there are some other things you should do to the machine. We'll get there!
Chas
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by goodboyr » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:13 am

Saynor electronics on woodbine in Markham has stock of fuses if you need.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Bob
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cliffbar
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by cliffbar » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:53 pm

She is alive !!

Replaced the fuse in the control box and she has life back. I have joined your ranks as La Spaziale owner.

Thanks everyone for your help. I am still playing around but looking forward to getting some skill using her.
Thanks,
Cliff
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by chas » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:42 pm

Congratulations on your success. Now back to a couple issues you mentioned in your original message.

1) Fuse holder - Recently someone had a issue with their fuse and noticed that a 20A fuse was used in a fuseholder rated for 15A. Perhaps that's why yours is missing. At your convenience you should purchase a 20A holder and fuse and install them. 20A fuseholders are typically ceramic vs plastic for the 15A models. Therefore they cost more - which is probably why LaSpaziale cut that corner!

2) You also mentioned an issue with the power connectors on the steam boiler. This was an ongoing issue with my S1 and also my V2. The thin translucent plastic insulating cover doesn't hold up in the heat and eventually just crumbles. That may be your only issue. However, I had a 2nd issue which is a worse problem. The heat and humidity tend to get into the wire strands between the crimp connector and the wire's insulation. This causes the copper to oxide and heat up. In my worst case, the wire melted and then bent over, touched the grounded chassis, and blew the fuse. Regardless of which issue you have, the solution is the same. You need to cut off the crimp connector and install a new one. There are several styles available. My favorite integrates a piece of shrink tubing. After you crimp on the new connection, you heat the connector and the tubing shrinks around the end of the wire. This seals the entire connection so that the problem doesn't repeat. If you can't find that style, any new insulated crimp connector will solve your problem.
Chas
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Re: Help with S1 VII Power Issues am I testing correctly

Post by cliffbar » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:19 pm

Starting to get some good shots out of my newly fixed coffee altar.

Newbie feedback from my fixes.

Fuse change in the control box. What I thought would be a big task to remove the control box from down deep inside turned out to be quick. just totally removed the branded flex hose and the control box could be shifted out. Remember to number the connectors before disconnecting.

Installation of new pump simple task but I forgot to adjust the brew pressure for the new pump. This fixed the consistent bad shots I was pulling.

I will be changing the crimp connector once I strip the whole unit down to descale it.

Thanks once again for the help.
Thanks,
Cliff
La Spaziale s1 mini. Exobar Lever, Kompak K6 with home made programmable grind timer.

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