Tamper suggestions

All Discussions about 53ish mm tampers for the Vivaldi
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chrisd

Tamper suggestions

Post by chrisd »

Having had several weeks of LaSpaz love (& a few "you spent how much?!" conversations with friends and colleagues) I think I need a better tamper. The generic 53mm one I bought originally, while likely better than the plastic one bundled, still leaves a gap around the edge where it doesn't quite fill the basket.

All the tamper threads are somewhat old, so I wondered if people had any recent suggestions?

Chris
Endo

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by Endo »

Espro is still my favourite.

But if you want something truly awesome, design your own and get it machined online here:

http://www.emachineshop.com/
peter

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by peter »

Unless it's a crazy-big gap, word is that it doesn't matter much.

I have a 53mm Reg Barber, and there's a gap, but I wouldn't want it much tighter either.
chrisd

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by chrisd »

I've been looking at Espro ones quite a bit, Endo; the price was giving me pause, until I put it into context of everything currently sitting in the kitchen and realised now wasn't the time to nitpick! :lol: Not sure about designing my own, though I noticed Hasbean offers a bespoke tamper service where you can send in your basket and they'll make you one sized perfectly to fit:

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/Bespo ... mpers.html

Peter, I'm not sure what counts as crazy-big, but I do tend to find that when I get channeling it's near the edges. Not right at the edge, but a little in, leading me to wonder whether it's inconsistent tamping pressure from the too-small tamper I have now. I've been spending more time on my distribution but it doesn't seem to make a huge amount of difference.

Thanks for the input, guys, much appreciated!

Chris
richardcoffee
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Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by richardcoffee »

When I bought my mini from Chris', I got one of his regular 53mm convex tampers to go with it. Then, because this whole coffee journey has turned me into an obsessive compulsive perfectionist and because I had that gap when I tamped I thought I better try another kind of tamper. So, I got a flat tamper that just happens to fit right to the edges of the baskets. Well, I don't like it. Now I use it as a lid on my Compak K10 for single dosing. My own experience is that if I grind fine enough, a simple tamp and polish is all I need. I don't believe there is any benefit from a tamper that fits tight. In fact, I think the shot suffers somehow.
JohnB

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JohnB »

If your tamper is fitted to your baskets properly it wouldn't be tight. I'm getting ready to place an order for a Pullman Tamper which will be sized to my VST & Espressoparts HQ baskets. I've already provided them with measurements I took using my digital calipers & I'm waiting to hear back on their sizing suggestion. This link describes how to measure your baskets: http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/informat ... ure-basket
Endo

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by Endo »

richardcoffee wrote:So, I got a flat tamper that just happens to fit right to the edges of the baskets. Well, I don't like it.
Good point. I have a tamper for my Cremina that was machined to fit perfectly in the basket. I HATE it. There was no room for nutation and it gets stuck lower down as the basket tapers slightly. (I actually had to machine it down 2mm). I'll take an undersized tamper with a bit of gap over a "perfect fit" tamper any day.

That said, the Espro 53mm convex fits just right and allows me exactly the right freedom to nutate.
JohnB

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JohnB »

If you had to machine 2mm off the tamper base for a better fit how in hell did you get it in in the first place? :roll: Let's be serious here; if your tamper was getting stuck it wasn't sized correctly for the basket. Pullman has been sizing tampers to specific baskets for years & their customers seem pretty damn happy.
Louis

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by Louis »

Endo wrote:That said, the Espro 53mm convex fits just right and allows me exactly the right freedom to nutate.
+1
Endo

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by Endo »

JohnB wrote:If you had to machine 2mm off the tamper base for a better fit how in hell did you get it in in the first place? :roll: Let's be serious here; if your tamper was getting stuck it wasn't sized correctly for the basket. Pullman has been sizing tampers to specific baskets for years & their customers seem pretty damn happy.
Yes. It was not quite that much. I took out my vernier again to refresh my memory and the exact measurements for my Cremina are 49.5mm reduced to 49.0mm (0.5mm reduction). Still, like I said, a little tweaking is always needed since individual technique, basket diameter and basket fullness will all have an effect on what tamper size works best for you. If you get real picky (like me), you might even prefer a custom break edge (I should should sell this idea to RB :lol: ). One size does not fit all.

By the way.....if you want something different...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/espressoparts/6026576597/
JohnB

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JohnB »

Definitely different but not for me. What I really want is one of the porcelain La Forza tampers that were available a few years back. Pretty much unobtainium nowadays. My second choice & the one I will order is the Pullman Checkerboard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul1V4v9wM_c
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chas
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Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by chas »

The PF thwacker in the YouTube video doesn't deserve one.
Chas
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JohnB

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JohnB »

Could have been worse, much worse considering some of the You Tube espresso prep videos out there. Still, not a good idea. Placing my Pullman order today.
JeffPersson
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Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JeffPersson »

When I bought my Mini from Chris Coffee I also ordered a 53mm Cafelat Royal tamper. I like the look and feel of it, but the first tamp always seems to leave a thin wall of grounds around the inside of the basket that I have to knock down and incorporate into the puck with a second polish. I don't know if this has lent to the sprizting I usually get on my bottomless PF but I've gone back to using the two spout PF to reduce the mess. I don't need/want a super tight fit, but will something like the Espro or Pullman at least prevent the thin wall of coffee left after the first tamp?
JohnB

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JohnB »

Timely question as I've been playing with the Custom fit flat base Pullman, somewhat loose (58.1mm) flat base RB & my very loose (57.9mm) KvdWesten Euro curve tampers for several weeks now. Can't say whether its the flat base vs curved base or loose fit vs tight but all of a sudden it was spritzer city from my bottomless p/f. Hadn't seen anything like this since I first started playing with espresso at home & I certainly didn't miss it. Going back to the Euro curve KvdW tamper which leaves that ridge of grounds you are concerned about cures the problem which seemed to start when I got the Pullman. Too soon to say as I've been trying different baskets also but for the time being returning to a loose fitting tamper & my old Synesso baskets has made machine clean up after a shot much easier. :lol:

A friend is sending me a 58.4mm RB curved base to play with but I won't be able to compare tighter bases for another week or so. For now my advice is to quit worrying about that little ridge of grounds that your tamper is leaving on top of your puck.
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Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JeffPersson »

Thanks JohnB. So when your tamper leaves that thin wall of grinds do you pull the shot with it still there or scrape it down and work it into the puck with a polish?
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slo
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Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by slo »

I also have started experimenting with tampers but they are all standard 53mm RG. The difference is the curve and the handle material.
The handle material changes the weight of the tamper but it is about it.The curve is where the difference is.

First, I am a nutater. Please feel free to confuse with nuts if you will. I nutate all the time. I was doing it before there was discussions about it and if I do not consciously think about Not doing it I will nutate. For this reason I dislike tight fit and flat base tampers that do not do a good job when nutating. YMMV of course.

So the comparison is between the Shallow "American" curve, Deep "Euro" curve and the C-Flat. The C-Flat is a Euro curve that is truncated flat in the middle.
Here are my not-scientific-in-the-least-off-the-cuff-completely-debatable-if-not-simply-dismissable observations.

The American curve is just enough curve to permit the nutation. It does a good job but it seems that the nutation must be done with less pressure and that the real compaction must be done at the end flat level press. With this tamper base I get a poor that always starts on the perimeter of the basket and moves toward the center within the first few seconds. Blonding also occurs on the perimeter first.

The Euro curve is easiest to do a uniform nutation that give a very nice and even tamp without efforts. No need to tamp hard to get the same puck compactness when using the nutation. This leaves a larger edge of coffee all around the basket wall. The center portion of the puck is definitely thinner than the edges. With this tamper, The flow sometime begins in the center but most often is pretty even. Blonding almost always occurs in the center first.

The C-Flat is an hybrid which I understand is meant to increase the amount of grounds on the edge of the puck. I am not sure how this would work if nutation is not applied. When nutation is applied, the euro curved edges do a great job to support the nutation and to push the grounds against the basket sides while the flat center section is not compacting the center during the nutation as much as with the full euro curve but it leaves more grounds to be compacted more at the end flat level press. This leaves a thicker and more compact center portion of the puck than the euro curve. Funny enough the result is also an hybrid. The poor starts evenly with no obvious pattern and but the blonding seems to occur faster on the perimeter.

Since these observations are just visual and only documented in my memory (read not documented!) it is not much to ride on. My verdict is that I am only using the C-Flat and the Euro curve now. The Euro curve is the most comfortable tamper to use with a light weight handle and a palm type style of tamping. The C-Flat is more of a tip of the finger type of tamper that I use with a heavy handle. I think that the C-Flat is giving me the best result in extraction and avoiding spritzers, but I am not fully decided yet.

For the grinds that are left on the side of the basket; just forget about them and DO NOT tap the side of the P/F or the basket. Tapping is bad for channeling and spritzers.

Edited to correct C-flat which I had mislabelled as C-cut.
Last edited by slo on Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JeffPersson
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Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JeffPersson »

Thanks for the feedback, slo. I have read not to tap the sides so I had been kinda of sweeping the side with my finger and then re-polishing it to work those few grounds into the top of the puck. The c-curve tamper sounds interesting. I may look into picking one up even if it's so I have more than a single tamper. I've gotten the impression owning only one is almost illegal. :grin:
JohnB

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JohnB »

JeffPersson wrote:Thanks JohnB. So when your tamper leaves that thin wall of grinds do you pull the shot with it still there or scrape it down and work it into the puck with a polish?
Yes, I pull the shot with the grounds still there. Re tapping the basket: pre tamp to settle is ok, after tamp not good. I referred to my KvdW tamper as having a Euro curve base simply because it is curved (slightly) & is made in Europe. Reading Slyvain's description I'd consider it closer to his "American Curve" as I wouldn't consider the curve deep. :roll: Who knows??

I also nutate & was surprised to see just how little basket clearance is required as I could still nutate in some of my baskets with the Pullman although I don't know how effective nutating with a flat base tamper is.
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slo
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Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by slo »

JeffPersson wrote: The c-curve tamper sounds interesting. I may look into picking one up even if it's so I have more than a single tamper. I've gotten the impression owning only one is almost illegal. :grin:
Please note that the designation is actually C-Flat not C-curve or C-cut as I had labelled them before.
Actually, many user that have multiple Tampers are collectors. You really do not need more than one. It is just that you really do not know which one you like best until you have used one for a little while.
JohnB wrote:Reading Slyvain's description I'd consider it closer to his "American Curve" as I wouldn't consider the curve deep. Who knows??
The Euro curve actually has a radius curve that is about half the radius of the American. Without having them both side by side or measuring the height of the curve it is not obvious to tell which is which.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
brazilianguy

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by brazilianguy »

Hello,

This is my first post here.

I am also looking for a tamper. For now I am planning on having just one tamper, so I want to make sure I get the right one. I am leaning towards the Espro. Would you guys recommend the Espro tamper? If not, any other suggestions? I

Thanks.
JohnB

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JohnB »

I wouldn't, get yourself a nice conventional tamper as you will soon out grow the calibrated Espro. The 30lb tamp is vastly over rated & unnecessary so there is no need for a tamper that is set up for one.
brazilianguy

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by brazilianguy »

Thanks for the reply.

what would you suggest? RB?
Endo

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by Endo »

I own 4 tampers: RB, OE, Coffeelab and Espro.

Espro is still my favourite. Even without the clicking feature (which you can simply ignore if you wish). It is still one of the best made and well balanced tampers out there.

Highly recommended.
JohnB

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by JohnB »

brazilianguy wrote:Thanks for the reply.

what would you suggest? RB?
RB has some nice designs & I use my wooden handled/C Flat base RB daily. I also have a Pullman (flat base) & the KvdWesten tamper(Euro curve) that came with my Speedster. They are all slightly different in base size, have different base shapes & all produce very nice shots so my advice is buy a tamper that you love to look at & that is comfortable to work with. The rest doesn't mean diddly. Torr has some very nice tampers if you are willing to spend the $$ for the added bling.

I do miss my Coffeelab tamper, wish I could have found a 58mm base for it.
Louis

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by Louis »

Endo wrote:Espro is still my favourite. Even without the clicking feature (which you can simply ignore if you wish). It is still one of the best made and well balanced tampers out there.

Highly recommended.
+1, along with "pricey"...

I've owned a Reg Barber before (58mm) and switched to the Espro (53mm) since I got my Vivaldi (9 months ago).

The Espro is very well made, and nice to handle. I agree with John that the 30 lbs tamp is over-rated, but I see this as an argument for the Espro instead of against it: what is important with tamping (like many other espresso making parameters) is not the value itself (weight in this case) but its consistency. The Espro gives me consistency; it's set at 30 lbs, I wouldn't care if it was set at 20, 25, or 35 instead, as long as it's consistent. When my shot runs too slow or too fast, I don't ask myself if its related to my tamping; I know it's caused by either dose/grind adjustment.

I've used a tamper two+ times a day for the past 3 years and don't see myself getting outgrown by the Espro.

Just my humble opinion.
Last edited by Louis on Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
brazilianguy

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by brazilianguy »

Thanks for the discussion. As I am a new owner of a Mini and I am still in a learning process, I believe the espro will be the right fit for me. I placed an order from CSS, and I should get it on Tuesday.
BobUSN

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by BobUSN »

I've been using this one for two years...it's like an old friend:

http://www.amazon.com/Vanelis-Stainless ... 02&sr=8-30

Still the same price it was on New Year's Eve, 2009: $25.95.
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GDK
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Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by GDK »

I have the exact same tamper - it does the job and feels solid. Now it has a friend as I recently got the Espro with convex surface.
laforzatamp

Re: Tamper suggestions

Post by laforzatamp »

I stumbled across this post doing a web search for La Forza Tampers. I created those about 10 years ago and have been hoarding a box of them ever since. I put 5 of them on ebay and they sold in a few hours. I still have a few left that I'll be posting.
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