The Annual Triple Poll

The extended drought is over. LaSpaziale triple baskets are now available from Chris Coffee!
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sakurama
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The Annual Triple Poll

Post by sakurama » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:55 am

So triple ristrettos is what got me into this game and triples is what keeps me going. I've had a year with my Vivaldi and if I've pulled more than two singles I'd be surprised. Doubles are dull. Triples are fun.

Big thanks to Chas as he hooked me up with one of the original triple baskets when I bought his Scace. For some dumb reason I never had a real scale so I simply filled the triple, stirred (not shaken) and then leveled it off. I was happy whatever that turned out to be.

It turned out to be exactly 21grams now that I have a good scale. In the mean time I'd heard so much about triples and even over dosing to 23-25g that I thought I'd try to make a "true triple" since I thought mine might be short. I had several doubles and a single so why not right? I'm lucky in that I have a full machine shop at my disposal but cutting these guys perfect was a bear since .5mm stainless doesn't part well on the lathe. I had huge respect for Lino once I started to try welding them - it's near impossible.

Eventually I found a laser welder who was willing to take it on provided I sent him perfectly prepped parts. The result was a larger than triple basket perfectly made. Here's some photos of the process.

Cutting the basket apart:
Image

Here's parts cut but not prepped or dressed:
Image

Here's the Super Triple (36mm), a Normal Triple (32.4mm), and a Double (27.4mm):
Image

Since my triple is much larger I needed to cut a second bottomless portafilter that would accommodate it:
Image

And here's the two triples together:
Image

So here's what I've learned:

The 53mm portafilter has a hard time with anything larger than 21g. I'm still experimenting but if I put 24g in the big one it needs a lot of preinfusion and the tamp has to be right on 30lbs and the grind has to be perfect. If all that is on you get a really sweet ristretto and if not it's easy to back up the machine. It sorta made me sad since I now want a Speedster, GS/3 or GS/1.

In the end I found you can ever so slightly overdose the normal triple but 21g is where it's at. I get a pretty sweet 1.5oz from that. I'll keep playing with the big one though just for fun but I'm pretty confident that the normal triple is the right size if you like ristrettos.

John has found that you can buy Dalle Corte triples that seem like a pretty near perfect fit but they took a month to return my email and no one has them to order so I never got to try that option although it seems like a good one.

So the point of this poll is both to add to the pot of information here and to gauge if anyone would want me to make some more. It's a pain and it takes quite a bit of time and it's certainly not my day job so I'd only do it if there were at least 10 people and then maybe I'd make 20 just in case. If 800 people wanted them I'd finally get a Speedster but my guess that's not going to happen.

I might regret it but I think I can make them happen for the original $50. I could do the larger ones but it would be more since you have to do a fair bit more machining on the portafilter and frankly I don't know that it's worth it. Maybe I should send mine around to let people try it.

Anyway, I know a couple of folks have expressed interest and I thought I'd offer up a thread to see what folks thought.

Gregor
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Endo
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by Endo » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:50 am

I'm in! Can you make a triple that will fit in my original PF with no machining?
Endo

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by slo » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:02 am

Thank you for the information and the offer.

I am certainly in! I'll even commit to two if this is needed to make the process going.

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by sakurama » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:53 pm

Yes, the correct sized triple will fit into the spouted portafilter which is where mine has been living for the last few weeks. I like having the ability to pour two small caps at once.

I know when I got my machine it was frustrating that there was no option for triples and I suspect that there are a few people out there who don't post but watch the board who would like to get ahold of a triple. I have three people for four so we're getting there.

Gregor
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by Endo » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:50 pm

Are they ridgeless as well? (I love ridgeless).
Endo

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by oton » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:23 pm

sakurama wrote:the correct sized triple will fit into the spouted portafilter
Woah! Thats exactly what I want. :bounce:
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by sakurama » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:34 pm

Endo wrote:Are they ridgeless as well? (I love ridgeless).
No, they're ridged for your pleasure.

Since I'm cutting two to make one I have to keep the ridge. If it was lower I would be able to cheat the measurements but I can't as it's so near the top. If I need to make a jig to support the inside to help with the cutting I might try pressing it down while it's on the lathe but I can't promise much since I haven't tried. I'll give it a whirl though.

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by Endo » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:56 am

sakurama wrote:
Endo wrote:Are they ridgeless as well? (I love ridgeless).
No, they're ridged for your pleasure.
Good one! :sex:
Endo

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by oton » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:09 am

The last week I ordered a La San Marco triple basket, this basket fits into the spouted PF?
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by sakurama » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:12 am

oton wrote:The last week I ordered a La San Marco triple basket, this basket fits into the spouted PF?
I don't know. I'd be really happy to find a cheap perfect fit. I don't know how many people outside of John have gotten the Dalle Corte baskets but they don't sound too difficult to fit if you can get them.
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by JohnB » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:18 am

Jeff has one of my DC triples & Dodger (Keith) has the other one up for sale in the swap meet section. Like your deeper triple they require opening up the bottom of the p/f & you also need to remove the spring as well as bevel the upper edge so the basket ridge clears. A few minutes work with a die grinder & file if you have a bottomless p/f. I've still got what may be the worlds only ridgeless L/S double basket around here someplace.
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by sakurama » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:43 am

JohnB wrote:Jeff has one of my DC triples & Dodger (Keith) has the other one up for sale in the swap meet section. Like your deeper triple they require opening up the bottom of the p/f & you also need to remove the spring as well as bevel the upper edge so the basket ridge clears. A few minutes work with a die grinder & file if you have a bottomless p/f. I've still got what may be the worlds only ridgeless L/S double basket around here someplace.
Hi John!

So will the DC triple fit in a spouted portafilter holder? I think that may be what tips the scales for people who want a triple but want to use the spouted portafilter. In your photos it seems like the DC is almost as deep as my super triple so I'm guessing it won't.

Thanks!

Gregor

PS Now that you have the Speedster did you sell your S1? Seems hard to believe you'd need a second machine but then none of us need these machines at all.
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by JohnB » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:51 am

JMan (Jeff) bought my S1V2 back in November. I still have my Microcasa but the Speedster is my everyday machine. The DC triple won't fit in the standard L/S bottomless p/f so the spouted p/f is a definite no go.

Correct about the "need" thing especially when you talk about the Speedster which is really a commercial machine sold for home use. There is no way to justify it's use in a home environment but then I don't try. I "wanted" a Speedster, the opportunity presented itself, no regrets!!
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by chas » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:26 pm

JohnB wrote:I "wanted" a Speedster, the opportunity presented itself, no regrets!!
I understand that logic!
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by sakurama » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:25 pm

Both of you guys with Ferraris hanging out with the BMW club (or something like that). I don't know whether to be insulted or honored :-?

I will say that you two have got me looking around at used La Marzoccos and doing the research. My machine might fetch half of that GS1 that went on ebay...
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by Endo » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:18 pm

sakurama wrote:I will say that you two have got me looking around at used La Marzoccos and doing the research. My machine might fetch half of that GS1 that went on ebay...
You might want to keep your money in your pocket for another year. Apparently Bill Crossland (GS/3 designer), has started his own company and has a working prototype of a "game changing" variable temperature and pressure machine that will be half the cost of a GS/3.

I'm not holding my breath, but I'm definitely holding my money until I hear more.
Endo

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by JohnB » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:31 pm

Might be a long wait on that one unless he has some very serious backing. Either way I don't see why anyone that really wanted to buy a Speedster would be happy with what sounds like a mostly plastic, high tech espresso machine that will be built to a price probably in China. I certainly wasn't looking for the latest high tech gadget when I bought the Speedster. Two very different markets I would think.

That said the Italian Espresso machine industry needs a serious kick in the ass so I wish Bill C. the best of luck with his venture.
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by JohnB » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:32 pm

sakurama wrote: I will say that you two have got me looking around at used La Marzoccos and doing the research. My machine might fetch half of that GS1 that went on ebay...
Check out that recent Speedster thread on CG. If Bob takes the plunge his GS3 Paddle will be up for sale. :twisted:
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by Endo » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:53 pm

JohnB wrote:Might be a long wait on that one unless he has some very serious backing. Either way I don't see why anyone that really wanted to buy a Speedster would be happy with what sounds like a mostly plastic, high tech espresso machine that will be built to a price probably in China. I certainly wasn't looking for the latest high tech gadget when I bought the Speedster. Two very different markets I would think.

That said the Italian Espresso machine industry needs a serious kick in the ass so I wish Bill C. the best of luck with his venture.
All very true. That's why I mentioned in the CG thread that the real challenge is in the marketing.

I like to joke about the espresso machines being like Harelys. It's more about image, tradition and feel than it is about riding performance. In that sense, even if Bill is able to make an espresso machine that allows perfect control of intrashot temperature and pressure through use of cold and hot water valves and a micro-processor, if it looks like a big Nespresso, it will take some time for people to jump on board.

The espresso machine is still a kitchen ornament in a strong sense. If Bill removes half the high priced brass and cuts the price in half, I'm still fairly sure many will prefer the weight and craftsmanship in the older traditional machines (like your Speedster).

I think the real "game changer" will be when Breville figures out the semi-auto and starts making beautiful S1 knockoffs with all stainless panels, PID and full LED readout for 1/3 the price. They seem pretty smart but for some reason they appear baffled by the Italian non-pressurized basket! That can't last much longer.
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by slo » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:18 pm

Just posting to bring this poll to the surface again.

I believe that we have not met our quota just yet!? Anyone else interested?
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by coffeeowl » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:27 am

sakurama wrote:Anyway, I know a couple of folks have expressed interest and I thought I'd offer up a thread to see what folks thought.
I'm in !
Pawel

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by oton » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:57 pm

oton wrote:The last week I ordered a La San Marco triple basket, this basket fits into the spouted PF?
Got it. But it's BIG. I mean, the diameter is like 55mm?
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by Barabus » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:07 am

New owner here that would like a triple.

Cheers!

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by oton » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:14 am

:triplets:

:confused5: waiting................


EDIT 14 april:

Yesterday I made a few shots to try a coffee roasted with my gene cafe (Costa Rica Cafetalera Hervazu). After a bunch of bad shots and nearly finished with all the roasted coffee, I cleary thought that my roasting was faulty. I decided to try the last beans with my new Mypressi Twist. 19gr (that don't fit into LaSpaz double basket) on the 53mm Mypressi PF... :shock: woah. Nice and clear red fruits taste (the right flavor of this coffee) with a BIG gloopy mouthfeel which frankly makes me think if should I call this beverage Italian Espresso... American Espresso probably fits best.
Last edited by oton on Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by BrewHaHa » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:02 am

sakurama wrote:So the point of this poll is both to add to the pot of information here and to gauge if anyone would want me to make some more. It's a pain and it takes quite a bit of time and it's certainly not my day job so I'd only do it if there were at least 10 people and then maybe I'd make 20 just in case.
If this idea is still alive, I'd be in for one.

Thanks,

JohnY
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by coffeeowl » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:59 pm

coffeeowl wrote:
sakurama wrote:Anyway, I know a couple of folks have expressed interest and I thought I'd offer up a thread to see what folks thought.
I'm in !
Im sorry but, as I decided to get the pf and basket offered in the Swap forum by Keith, I'm no longer in for the basket here.

Regards and good luck to everybody!
Pawel

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by bernie » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:51 am

BrewHaHa wrote:
sakurama wrote:So the point of this poll is both to add to the pot of information here and to gauge if anyone would want me to make some more. It's a pain and it takes quite a bit of time and it's certainly not my day job so I'd only do it if there were at least 10 people and then maybe I'd make 20 just in case.
If this idea is still alive, I'd be in for one.

Thanks,

JohnY
I am a relatively new Mini owner (since October 2009). Please put me down for a triple basket. If it helps to get things going, happy to buy two.

Bernie.

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by michael » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:50 pm

i would also like to get one of these triple baskets

is there a schedule; is this happening 8)

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by sakurama » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:25 am

Schedule? No.

It does seem like we're getting close to 10 so I might start getting things ordered. My business has picked up (finally) so it's harder to find the time to get out to the shop and having a new baby isn't helping but a day in front of the lathe sounds like a good way to relax right now.

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by oton » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:01 pm

sakurama wrote:Schedule? No.

It does seem like we're getting close to 10 so I might start getting things ordered.
I have to say that I'll probably get 2. Perhaps 3 but it depends of the price / shipment.

Oh, and congrats for the baby, mate. Best whishes. :binky:
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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by BobUSN » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:21 am

Gregor,

Give the little one some espresso & all your problems will be solved.

Hehe.
Blessed regards,
Bob

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Re: The Annual Triple Poll

Post by Barabus » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:14 pm

Just encase it was missed or otherwise disregarded. I am a new owner without much history in this small forum, but will purchase a triple. Just reconfirming.

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