$14 Triple Baskets!

The extended drought is over. LaSpaziale triple baskets are now available from Chris Coffee!
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JohnB
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$14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:58 pm

I ordered two Dalla Corte triple baskets to see if these could be modified to fit the L/S bottomless p/f. After playing with one basket I decided the best/only option was to modify the p/f to accept the larger basket. First of all as you can see from the pics the D/C basket is tall enough that the bottom of the p/f needs to be opened up so the triple basket can fit completely inside.
Baskets Down.JPG
Baskets Down.JPG (55.17 KiB) Viewed 11912 times
Baskets Up.JPG
Baskets Up.JPG (49.83 KiB) Viewed 11915 times
This was easily accomplished by using a die grinder with a small cut off wheel(1") to remove some material at the original bevel edge. Even with the p/f spring removed the ridge in the D/C basket will prevent the basket from fully seating unless you taper the inside of the p/f between the spring groove & the top edge. You don't have to remove much material & you should be doing all your grinding above the spring groove. With this area tapered the D/C basket easily snaps in & out with a simple finger push with no p/f spring installed. Another benefit of tapering the upper edge is that with the spring slightly modified as shown below the standard ridged basket will also easily snap in & out with a light finger push.

Modified Spring
Spring.JPG
Spring.JPG (37.79 KiB) Viewed 11916 times
P/F with triple
With Triple.JPG
With Triple.JPG (53.69 KiB) Viewed 11914 times
P/F with double
With Double.JPG
With Double.JPG (58.78 KiB) Viewed 11918 times

Tamping with a 53.3mm tamper will leave a slight ring of grounds clinging to the 54mm basket but I haven't found this to be an issue.
If you are interested in trying this mod contact James @ Dalla Corte USA to order the triple baskets. The cost with shipping for 2 was $28 & it's probably best not to mention how you plan to use them.
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by Niko » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:17 pm

Great post, John :thumbleft:
Also good advice to not mention what they'll be used for ;-)
The ring of grinds on the very outer part of the puck should be no problem. Maybe P/i will help eliminate any issues for some folks but good old fashioned distribution and proper tamping should be fine.
Or, a new tamper can be added to the collection....
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:29 pm

If you do the nutating thing first you can knock the ring down with your finger before tamping but I didn't notice any difference either way. Can't say I'm a big fan of straight triples, at least not with my current espresso but they do perk up a latte. I forget how many shots I sampled while dialing in the grind & playing with the p/i but my eyes are definitely bugging! :shock:
Last edited by JohnB on Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by Niko » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:39 pm

JohnB wrote:...Can't say I'm a big fan of straight triples, at least not with my current espresso but they do perk up a latte.
ahem...he meant, long Cappuccinos folks :lol:
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by RapidCoffee » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:20 pm

Also not a big triple basket fan, but looking forward to hearing your impressions.

I strongly suggest you do not order a different tamper (unless you just want an excuse :grin: ). Anything within a millimeter is fine. (Heck, anything within several mm is probably fine.)
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:46 am

RapidCoffee wrote:Also not a big triple basket fan, but looking forward to hearing your impressions.

I strongly suggest you do not order a different tamper (unless you just want an excuse :grin: ). Anything within a millimeter is fine. (Heck, anything within several mm is probably fine.)
No plans to buy another tamper, I've got enough of those. The triple will be reserved for sampling those blends that seem to be designed for huge doses. That an the occasional "long Cappuccino".
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by Weska » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:59 am

A nice research contribution, JohnB. Thank you.

Is it just an artifact of the photos (or my diseased imagination), or is the Dalla Corte basket punched with larger, rounder holes than the "standard" one?
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:54 am

Weska wrote:A nice research contribution, JohnB. Thank you.

Is it just an artifact of the photos (or my diseased imagination), or is the Dalla Corte basket punched with larger, rounder holes than the "standard" one?
Holding both baskets up to the light the DC holes actually look square compared to the L/S basket's holes. No noticeable difference in size but I did bead blast the DC basket which might account for the different look in the photo.

Is anyone else planning on trying the DC triple basket?
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by sakurama » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:44 pm

So is it the ring in the triple basket that is larger preventing it to seat or is the overall OD too large? I bought a couple extra double baskets with the intention of cutting and welding them together but it's fairly thin and my welding skills might be put to the test joining them. In looking at the basket I'm wondering if you could just chuck it up in a lathe and turn it down a millimeter or two. Any chance you could measure the OD of the two baskets?
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:45 pm

sakurama wrote:So is it the ring in the triple basket that is larger preventing it to seat or is the overall OD too large? I bought a couple extra double baskets with the intention of cutting and welding them together but it's fairly thin and my welding skills might be put to the test joining them. In looking at the basket I'm wondering if you could just chuck it up in a lathe and turn it down a millimeter or two. Any chance you could measure the OD of the two baskets?
Measure the od of which two baskets?
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by roknee » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:45 am

hey johnb,

nice idea with the DC baskets.
i was also wondering if la san marco baskets fit and whether they ever made triples anyay...?

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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:10 pm

roknee wrote:hey johnb,

nice idea with the DC baskets.
i was also wondering if la san marco baskets fit and whether they ever made triples anyay...?
I posted this a couple days ago:
"One other option I haven't personally checked out is a 53mm La San Marco triple basket. I read on another forum that it fits loosely in the DC 54mm P/F so it "might" fit nicely in the La Spaziale p/f. Espresso Parts NW lists it as 18g but other sites claim 21g. The DC triple I used easily holds 20g+."

If it is only an 18g triple then its not much bigger then the L/S double but if its 21g as some Aus sites say then it would be worth a try. EPNW gets $18 + sh if I remember correctly.
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by BrewHaHa » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:03 pm

JohnB wrote:
roknee wrote:hey johnb,

nice idea with the DC baskets.
i was also wondering if la san marco baskets fit and whether they ever made triples anyay...?
I posted this a couple days ago:
"One other option I haven't personally checked out is a 53mm La San Marco triple basket. I read on another forum that it fits loosely in the DC 54mm P/F so it "might" fit nicely in the La Spaziale p/f. Espresso Parts NW lists it as 18g but other sites claim 21g. The DC triple I used easily holds 20g+."

If it is only an 18g triple then its not much bigger then the L/S double but if its 21g as some Aus sites say then it would be worth a try. EPNW gets $18 + sh if I remember correctly.
I bought a supposed 21g La San Marco basket from an eBay store about a year ago. The basket I got turned out to be about the same size as the other doubles I have, and holds about 18g. It works perfectly well in the Vivaldi portafilter, but it is not a triple.

I'll offer one POSSIBLE explanation for the discrepancy/confusion. Here's what the La San Marco parts list looks like:
parts.JPG
parts.JPG (26.08 KiB) Viewed 11603 times
Notice that, apparently, the part number for the 18g basket is 202121, and the part number for the 21g basket is 202118. Seeing a list of part numbers, someone along the way may have erroneously assumed that the part number ending in "21" was the 21g basket, and the part number ending in "18" was the 18g basket. So, maybe some vendors THINK they are selling a 21g basket when they're actually selling an 18g. If I'm feeling flush, maybe I'll order an 18g AND a 21g from the same vendor and see what I get. (My pile of baskets isn't quite big enough yet! ;-) )
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:43 pm

It makes sense. I did see an Aus site advertizing a 21g basket but most state 18g. My personal opinion is that triples are not the Vivaldi's forte'. I much perfer the lower dosed shots I pull with this machine. Chas has the best of both worlds; an S1 for his singles & 14g doubles & a GS3 for his triples! :lol:
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by LJCoffeeGuy » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:00 pm

I just ordered two of the baskets from James at Dalla Corte ($12 each + $5 shipping = $29). Looking forward to modding my bottomless portafilter to fit these. I'm even thinking of converting on of my spouted p/f's as a dedicated triple basket portafilter so I'll have a double and triple bottomless setup. I'll have to setup the drill press! s

I've had pretty good results doing up to 16 gram in the double, but not much more than that. I ordered some Metropolis Redline Decaf that they say really needs to be dosed at 18+ gram. I have been getting watery, runny, results with a low dose. So, I vacuum sealed and froze the rest, ready for a triple basket.

Then again, I won't be using triples all the time, unless all decafs need them, then this would match having two grinders....
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by Endo » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:29 pm

I'd be interested in trying the triple but I have trouble getting baskets easily here in Canada. My Synesso basket for my old machine ended up costing me $40. :shock:

I would tend to think that with the the 53mm Vivaldi basket, the puck would be WAY too tall for a triple and would give a very poor extraction from the bottom layers.

By the way, the Metropolis Redline Espresso is great as a double. I prefer the blends designed for updosing the most (like Klatch Belle Espresso as well),. But I can only dose up to around 16.5g. If I do more than that, the lack of headspace seems to throw things off. Maybe the triple would give me some more flexibility here?
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:29 pm

Endo wrote: I would tend to think that with the the 53mm Vivaldi basket, the puck would be WAY too tall for a triple and would give a very poor extraction from the bottom layers.

By the way, the Metropolis Redline Espresso is great as a double. I prefer the blends designed for updosing the most (like Klatch Belle Espresso as well),. But I can only dose up to around 16.5g. If I do more than that, the lack of headspace seems to throw things off. Maybe the triple would give me some more flexibility here?
I'm not a big fan of triples but I've fit up to 21 grams in my DC triple basket & gotten good extractions as long as I had the grinder dialed in. I also kick the p/i time up to 6 seconds.
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by BrewHaHa » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:08 pm

Well, a while back I did pick up a couple of La San Marco 202118 21gram baskets (from Michaelo Espresso in Seattle), as well as a couple Dalla Corte triple baskets from espressoparts.com.

The baskets are virtually the same size, so, like the Dalla Corte, the San Marco triple will not fit in a Vivaldi portafilter without some grinding. (Unlike a La San Marco 18g basket I have, which easily fits a stock Vivaldi portafilter.)

The La San Marco was even stamped with the basket capacity:
SMsize.JPG
SMsize.JPG (50.96 KiB) Viewed 11331 times
I finally got around to grinding out my bottomless portafilter yesterday, and the new, bigger baskets now fit fine. It did turn out to be a little more work for me than it was for JohnB, though. Not only did I have to remove material above the spring groove, but it was a bit of a tight squeeze in the lower part of the portafilter, as well. (And, not having a nice shop full of tools, I had to use a 1 1/2" grinding wheel chucked into a handheld electric drill.)

These 54mm baskets are significantly bigger than the welded triple basket I have (via Lino). With my particular Lino triple, I have to do some settling taps and use a firm, 30 lb tamp in order to barely squeeze in 20 grams, and even then the center screw (a flatter screw than the standard bolt) often leaves an impression in the puck before pulling the shot. But with these 54mm baskets, 20 grams is easily swallowed up, and even with no settling taps, and with a lighter, JohnB-inspired tamp there's plenty of room under the screen.

I highly recommend this approach for anyone wanting a larger basket. Also, just to be clear, grinding out the portafilter does not affect how it works with standard baskets. (Other than having to swap in or out the spring, as JohnB mentioned.) It's not like you're sacrificing the PF for use only with these larger baskets.

BTW, if you can get one, I'd go for the Dalla Corte. Both San Marco baskets I got had the bottom holes off-center. I don't know how significant that would be in actual use, but it seems like pretty poor quality control:
SMholes.JPG
SMholes.JPG (95.15 KiB) Viewed 11331 times
Sounds like getting a DC basket might be a trick right now, though. I've read that people have been having problems getting one directly, and EspressoParts lists it as back ordered. Hopefully that's temporary, but I don't think they carry Dalla Corte machines anymore, so you'd have to ask them if they expect to get more baskets. (Or find someone else who carries them.)

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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:22 pm

Thanks for the info comparing the La San Marco & DC baskets. I don't always have the right tool for the job either. I had lots of "fun" recently when I decided to make my own bottomless p/f for my Microcasa a Leva. One very dull 2" hole saw, various cut off wheels & a hand file finally did the job. Turned out nice in the end but took way too much time.

Whole Latte Love is selling (or trying to sell) the DC Mini but I don't see the baskets on their site. They might be an option but I'd email EspressoParts first to see if they will be restocking if anyone else is interested in this mod.
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by LJCoffeeGuy » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:08 pm

JohnB -
Any chance you cost post a picture of the inside of your portafilter to see what are I need to trim/cut out?

Thanks!
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:58 pm

The photos in my first post show the bottom area pretty clearly. You need to open the cut out area so that the triple basket doesn't touch the sides as it sits lower then the double. Hold the bottom of the DC basket up to the bottom of your p/f & you will see how much material needs to be removed. At the top you are just beveling the edge enough so that the triple will snap in and out fairly easy with the p/f spring removed. Just cut a slight taper from the top edge down to just above the spring groove. You just need to remove enough material to allow the ridge in the basket to fit in snuggly so just take off a little at a time & keep testing the fit. You want the basket to fit tight enough so it doesn't pop out in the knock box but not so tight that you can't push it out with your fingers from the bottom.
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by Dodger1 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:31 am

EspressoParts said that the Dalla Corte triple baskets won't be available until the beginning of next year. :roll:
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:28 am

Email WholeLatteLove & see if they have any. They sell the DC Mini but I don't see baskets listed.
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by Dodger1 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:34 am

They didn't have any either.
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:22 am

DC machines don't seem to be selling well over here so we must have cleaned out the triple stock. As I mentioned previously you really aren't missing much as that large a dose isn't what the Vivaldi does best. On the other hand if you are a glutton for caffeine I've easily gotten 22g into the DC basket. :shock:
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by Dodger1 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:38 am

What I've come to realize, thanks in large part to you, is that a centered pile, loosely tamped, without any stirring, leveling etc. produces a superior shot. Along that line I've found that a 16g dose, in my stock Vivaldi double basket, is about optimal. However, there are a couple of beans that simply shine, at least according to everything I've read, at higher doses.

I can stuff ~ 18g into my stock La Spaziale double basket but that requires that I knock the basket a couple of times, use what I consider excessive tamping pressure and end up having to clean out all the accumulated grinds in the brew group almost daily.
So, with all that in mind, I thought that a larger basket would allow me to updose from 16g to say 18-20g, while keeping the centered, loosely tamped etc. routine that I've come to appreciate.

I'm now wondering if the 18g San Marco @

http://www.espressoparts.com/SM_488

which according to several posts fits in a stock Vivaldi portafilter, without any mods, would provide something along the lines of what I'm looking for?
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:13 am

If you could find the 21g La San Marco basket you'd be set, the 18g won't give you anything you don't already have. Look for a PM later today, I may have something for you.
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by Dodger1 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:45 am

Thanks John
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by JohnB » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:40 pm

PM sent.
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by Dodger1 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:40 am

Sent you an email and thanks for all the help :grin:
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by oton » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:38 am

I'm wondering if with the grinding, the chrome is removed, so is possible that the PF could takes rust?
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by chas » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:03 am

oton wrote:I'm wondering if with the grinding, the chrome is removed, so is possible that the PF could takes rust?
Brass rusts?
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
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slo
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by slo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:04 am

chas wrote:Brass rusts?
I think that Oton may have meant to write corrode instead of rust.

And the answer is that brass will oxidise yes,but at a rate so slow that the corroded layer will most likely get stripped away every time you wash the P/F. That is if you wash the P/F. I can already see Endo writing that he only washes the P/F once every 2 years... :twisted:

Even if you do not touch it the coffee oil will prevent most of the oxidisation.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
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Re: $14 Triple Baskets!

Post by oton » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:15 am

slo wrote:
chas wrote:Brass rusts?
I think that Oton may have meant to write corrode instead of rust.
Mmm..., yes. That's it. :roll:

Well, Dremel time. We'll see...
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