Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Discussion of coffee grinder hardware. How to get the most out of specific grinders. Cleaning and maintenance issues with grinders. Comparison of different grinders.
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carboi

Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by carboi »

I understand this isn't really a new question and have read various posts about both grinders but I'm new and would like more guidance.

I'm a total beginner and have just placed a pre-order for the S1 Dream T. I want a grinder that gives me consistency so that I can control as many variables as possible while learning to make great espresso (I also ordered an Espro tamper for this reason). When I placed my order I also ordered the Vario-W but since it won't ship until the new machines arrive at CCS I think I have time to change my order.

My worry with the Vario is that the settings seem to drift. I've also heard of other problems and it seems that Baratza has been good at addressing them. When I placed my order with Chris' Coffee I was informed that earlier versions of the Vario did have drift problems but that has been fixed by Baratza. Unfortunately I didn't ask when it was fixed so I don't know how when that happened but I got the impression that it was a while ago.

On the other hand, it seems that the Mazzer is a very reliable grinder and I haven't read of any problems.

I'll be using the grinder strictly for espresso. I will only have one grinder so it must be reliable. I don't want to have to weigh my beans each time I make espresso (early mornings) and thus my preference for these two grinders.

What are your thoughts and recommendations? Thank you in advance, and for all the informative posts that I've had a chance to read!
MDL
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Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by MDL »

I have never owned a Baratza grinder. However, numerous friends have and none of them have held up well over time. I believe that you will see many threads about the Baratza grinders and potential issues. Although the manufacturer seems to really stand behind their products I would suggest that you look at one of the more substantial grinders; a Mazzer, Compak, or other. Personally I would look at something closer to the Super Jolly instead of the mini.

Good luck...
carboi

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by carboi »

MDL - thank you for your advice! This is kinda what I'm starting to realize, the more I read about the Vario the more I'm wondering if the problems still persist. I'll start reading up on the Super Jolly vs the Mini E.
Endo

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Endo »

I owned the Mazzer Mini, Mazzer SJ and Vario. The Mazzers are MUCH more reliable, but you'll pay for it.
carboi

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by carboi »

Endo, thanks for your input! I've been reading the forums and some of your posts keep me going back and forth between a Mazzer and the Vario. On the one hand you seem to recommend the Vario for the convenience in everyday use but it also seems like an inconvenience considering the many problems you've had with the Vario. If you were starting all over and could only have one grinder for espresso, which grinder that costs under $950 would you choose to buy for daily use?
carboi

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by carboi »

And I should also add that my question excludes the Pharos since I'm not devoted enought to see that as a daily use grinder. I am still very new to this and using a manual grinder each morning before I'm really awake doesn't seem realistic for me.
Endo

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Endo »

carboi wrote: On the one hand you seem to recommend the Vario for the convenience in everyday use but it also seems like an inconvenience considering the many problems you've had with the Vario. If you were starting all over and could only have one grinder for espresso, which grinder that costs under $950 would you choose to buy for daily use?
That's exactly how I feel. On one hand, I love the Vario for its convenience. It seems like the perfect design in size and function. On the other hand, the taste is not great (like a K10 or Pharos), it can't seem to adjust grind very well, and it breaks often.

The only really good Mazzers (like the Major, Kony or Robur) are huge, expensive and inconvenient.

So in other words, I am stuck.

My solution for now is to go with the Vario and Pharos. The total cost is $750 and I have the best of both worlds. Convenience for every day and great taste when I want it. I also have a backup for when the Vario breaks too!
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chas
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Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by chas »

Endo wrote:
The only really good Mazzers (like the Major, Kony or Robur) are huge, expensive and inconvenient.
Actually I would say that my Kony is large, expensive, and convenient! Next to the Robur it looks tiny, especially after I retrofitted it with a Mazzer Mini hopper
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
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jfrescki
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Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by jfrescki »

I love the Vario for it's size and convenience too, and I actually have had very few problems with it in three years. I needed the shim kit early on, and once in a great while, the grind doesn't adjust right going from coarse to fine, but otherwise it's been fine.

That said, I've been thinking about another grinder to see if I'm missing out. OE has the Pharos back in stock, so that's a real possibility. There's also a used Cimbali Max Hybrid I've been eyeing for sale locally, but it just bothers me that Chris was never able to sell many, and there are a few rabid supporters out there, but not too many positive reviews otherwise. Chris isn't even selling them anymore, and I heard it's because Cimbali was going to make some improvements for him to fix some of the niggling problems, then they balked. Either way, I would like a Titan burrset without the titan price.!
John

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chas
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Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by chas »

I had a Max Hybrid for a little over a year and dumped it. What a PITA to clean! You can't really remove the hopper while there are any beans in it since you have to remove four internal screws from the bottom of the hopper before it can be removed. Then you see all the spots that trap and waste beans. There must be close to an ounce of beans that stay trapped down under the hopper and on top of the burrs and next to the burrs. Other that that it was a pretty good grinder but the cleaning and hopper removal issues were a show stopper for me.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
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Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by jfrescki »

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I had been warned, which is why I haven't picked it up, but for $340 with a few pounds of beans through it, I still might get it.
John

Mini Vivaldi, EPC-8, SJ, Steel Burr Vario
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Endo

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Endo »

The Pharos is a cheap way to find out if a Titan is worth it. I hate my Pharos, but I love the shots it makes. I love my Vario, but the shots are average.

When my hands get too sore from all the spanking and holding of the Pharos, I go back to the Vario.
expy98

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by expy98 »

or install the Voodoodaddy kit and spank no mo'...
jfrescki
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Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by jfrescki »

I think that's the route I'm going down (Pharos), and I'll probably inquire about the VoodooDaddy mods too. Is it a gateway drug to a k10 though?
John

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michael
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Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by michael »

I agree with chas; get a large, doserless mazer and you don't have to think about getting a new grinder 8)
carboi

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by carboi »

I read more posts here, at CG, and at HB. I considered skipping the "entry level" grinder and getting one of the large grinders but then I realized I was probably over doing it. This is my first espresso machine and grinder and, while I want to invest in quality equipment to avoid wanting to upgrade too soon and also to facilitate my learning curve, I really shouldn't spend more than $1K on my first grinder.

I also understand there may be noticeable "in the cup" differences between the Vario and the SJ which is also within my budget. However, I decided that as a beginner I may not notice that difference and may instead appreciate the convenience of the Vario-W. I also don't want to overwhelm my kitchen with too big a grinder.

So, after more reading and a lot of deliberation I decided to stick with the Vario-W.

Now I'm trying to figure out which of the many accessories I need to order before I get my machine. I'm trying not to get too carried away but it's so easy to buy and spend a lot on this hobby!
MichaelS

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by MichaelS »

Started w/ a Vario myself and have a K30 on the way now - however, the Vario is a good starting point.

As to other accessories, may I recommend the Espro tamper? It'll remove a variable from your early espresso journey by providing a consistent tamp - not to mention it is one very well machined tamper and fits the portafilter flawlessly.

Good knock box, and you're ready to rock. If milk drinks, others can recommend their favorite pitcher but a 12-16oz is a decent size (getting microfoam is not as easy as it sounds)

michael
Endo

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Endo »

I think the Vario is the best choice unless you are a die-hard espresso hobbiest. If eventually you find yourself in the category, you can always upgrade later. By that time, you'll have a better idea of what you want for a Titan, and there might even be some better choices on the market then.

Why the Vario-W? I love the convenience of grinding straight into the PF using my standard Vario. The W part seems like an unnecessary step for the small difference it makes and I have a small $20 scale where I can always weigh the grounds in the PF combined if I ever am in doubt.
carboi

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by carboi »

MichaelS wrote: As to other accessories, may I recommend the Espro tamper? It'll remove a variable from your early espresso journey by providing a consistent tamp - not to mention it is one very well machined tamper and fits the portafilter flawlessly.

Good knock box, and you're ready to rock. If milk drinks, others can recommend their favorite pitcher but a 12-16oz is a decent size (getting microfoam is not as easy as it sounds)

michael
Thanks for the tip Michael! My original order included the Espro tamper and I will be adding a 12oz pitcher to my order (along with some other misc stuff). I want to have as much consistency as possible. I know my milk won't be that great to start but I don't want to blame the pitcher for that so I did some reading and will be ordering the Motta. It's overkill for my beginner skill set but hopefully it will be the only pitcher I'll need for some time. At least I resisted the temptation to go way overboard and get an Allesi pitcher!
Endo wrote:Why the Vario-W? I love the convenience of grinding straight into the PF using my standard Vario. The W part seems like an unnecessary step for the small difference it makes and I have a small $20 scale where I can always weigh the grounds in the PF combined if I ever am in doubt.
I see your point about the Vario-W, not being able to grind straight into the portafilter is inconvenient. I noticed someone else on the CG forum uses a Vario-W and grinds straight into their basket (out of the portafilter) with a funnel. I figured I would try that and avoid having to use a scale. It's probably not that much easier than your process but I figured this way I could also dose exactly the amount of coffee I need.
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Endo

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Endo »

Another bad day for me with my Vario. I am trying to change the grind setting, and as usual, it won't grind more coarse. I have the micro lever moved all the way from the top to the bottom and no change. Very frustrating.

Whenever this happens, I usually need to take the top burr out and clean out the grounds everywhere. Then push the lower burr down manually and start moving the micro lever back up gradually until I find the right setting. This usually involves about 200g of wasted coffee.

I'm almost fed up with my Vario and ready to move on to another grinder. I'll be looking for something small and convenient but of better quality. It might be a Mazzer Mini E or perhaps the ProM but most likely I will wait for something new. I'll keep waiting and using my Pharos in the meantime.
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Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by chas »

What can I say? I couldn't even bring myself to sell mine. I gave it away. :shock:
Chas
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Endo

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Endo »

Mine will likely be donated as well. Also, it is off my list of recommend grinders for those who ask.

Unfortunately, I still haven't found a small, convenient replacement grinder that can satisfy my minimum taste requirement (damn you Pharos for raising my taste standard).

I figure my only choices are either;

1. Get the Mini Mazzer E and live with the average taste.
2. Get a Titan like the Mazzer Kony, find the space and live with the grind retention annoyance.
3. Wait until something like the Vario comes along which can actually change settings.

Very sad day... :-(
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Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by michael »

kony e is a great coffee toy even with the grinds retention

i have a vario we use for drip; its ok for that 8)
Endo

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Endo »

I think I made up my mind for my next grinder.........

(drum roll)

HG One.

Just need to decide on 71mm or 83mm.
Johnlyn

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Johnlyn »

I'd call Baratza with a problem of adjustments like that for sure. they seem to be rather helpful and personally i'd want it fixed or replaced. Mine has been so good that it is difficult to consider getting one of the titans, however, the HGone may change that!
Endo

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Endo »

I've called Baratza support several times and am currently on my 3rd Vario after replacing the first two. It is not just this grinder since the exact same thing happened on my last one as well. One of the techs told me last time it happens when the bushings are not aligned and more force is required to push the lower burr down than the downward grinding force can provide. I tried removing the belt and lower burr shaft, but the same problem always returns.
Johnlyn

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Johnlyn »

Fair enough then, you've definitely tried your best to make it work. DId they say anything about how the bushings would end up not being aligned?
Endo

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by Endo »

They didn't say, but it sounded like an assembly (tolerance) issue. Although, I have found it gets worse with time. So I think it may come out of alignment with time (or perhaps wear in a groove) over time.

If I can't sell it or get another new one from Baratza, I'll completely strip it and see what I can learn.
carboi

Re: Vario W or Mazer Mini E or something else?

Post by carboi »

Ugh, you guys are a bad influence on me! I haven't even received my machine and grinder and I already want to upgrade! :shock:

I talked to Mary and can change my grinder order since nothing has been shipped. I am now debating between the Mazzer Mini E and the Super Jolly E. Is the difference between the Mini and the SJ worth the difference in price and size of the SJ E?
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