Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

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JmanEspresso
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Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

Post by JmanEspresso » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:06 pm

Naturally, owning the VII, Ideas come to mind about how i can improve it. What is great, is that I can't really find anything that would improve the VII much, except 1 degree F temp increments.

But I did have a thought, for a mod, using the existing pre-infusion. I have no idea how to go about doing it on the VII though. . .

When we/I use PI, its prgrammed for however long. You hit the brew button, and the solenoid opens to let water in, using only line pressure. Then, the pump kicks in, and you brew. Stop the shot, water flow stops.

But what if we could shut off the pump, but keep the solenoid open. So it would like this...

Line pressure>Pump Pressure>Line Pressure>Off

I think this could be accomplished by adding a delay switch to the solenoids which control the water path to the group. Maybe delay switch is the wrong word. In my head, Id like it to be a simple toggle switch, which would allow you to leave the solenoid open, even though the machine wants to close them.

So.. what this would accomplish..

We could have a "slayer-esque" brew profile. Line pressure to soak, full pressure for a second or two, and then ramp back down to line pressure. Since the solenoids would remain open, the pressure would hopefully, trail smoothly back down to whatever your line pressure is.

Im sure this would be much more complicated then Im explaining it to be, because Id have to go into the VII electronics...

But whatdya guys think?

It could even be something that Chris could do... This, along with 1Degree F temp increments.. and the VII would literally be on par with the Speedster, Slayer, Paddle GS3. The LM Strada would be the only machine that trumps them.
--La Spaziale Vivaldi II w/Programmable Preinfusion -- Macap MXK -- Baratza Vario -- Bunn G2 -- Peter Dienes 550 Mokka -- Yama TCA-5 -- Yama SY5/SY8 -- Bodum Presses -- Clever Coffee Dripper -- Aeropress Coffee Brewer

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slo
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Re: Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

Post by slo » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:46 pm

Unfortunatly, once you cut the pump, the pressure will drop down to the line pressure almost instantaneously...To maintain the pressure you have to either apply pressure or prevent the release of it. Water being pretty much incompressible, it does not take a lot of flow to get the pressure down.

To control/reduce the pressure, you c ould maintain the pump active and provide a variable by-pass outlet for the water. Thus the more water you let out the more the pressure goes down. All you need is a metering valve downstream of the pump.

Hey I just had two Martinis so I may not be making total sense... Often this is when the best ideas come...
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

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JmanEspresso
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Re: Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

Post by JmanEspresso » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:03 pm

So, without keeping the pump running, there is no way to get the water pressure to stop from falling violently down to line pressure?

Sounds like I could just go all the way and setup a TMFR pump for full profiling.
--La Spaziale Vivaldi II w/Programmable Preinfusion -- Macap MXK -- Baratza Vario -- Bunn G2 -- Peter Dienes 550 Mokka -- Yama TCA-5 -- Yama SY5/SY8 -- Bodum Presses -- Clever Coffee Dripper -- Aeropress Coffee Brewer

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JohnB
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Re: Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

Post by JohnB » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:43 am

I just tried this with a couple shots of the Redline I'm working my way through. P/I at 38 psi until little droplets show, pump pressure to about the 18 second mark(timing from pump on) & then back to line pressure p/i until the end. When you cut the pump the pressure drifts smoothly down to line pressure. Not a "violent" drop but it does only take a second or two. My technique needs some work but comparing these two cups to the previous one with p/i then pump till the end I prefer the taste of the conventional shot. The combination shots were creamier with better mouthfeel but they had lost some of the sweetness. As I said my technique definitely needs to be refined & the next time I try it I will use less pump time.
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Re: Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

Post by JohnB » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:46 am

JmanEspresso wrote:It could even be something that Chris could do... This, along with 1Degree F temp increments.. and the VII would literally be on par with the Speedster, Slayer, Paddle GS3. The LM Strada would be the only machine that trumps them.
:lol: Chris would also need to spec a different group design & have L/S do some serious work on temp stability for that to be true.
Speedster/Bosco Sorrento/ K10WBC/K30/Bunnzilla
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slo
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Re: Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

Post by slo » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:14 pm

JohnB wrote:... When you cut the pump the pressure drifts smoothly down to line pressure. Not a "violent" drop but it does only take a second or two...
I am wondering how the pressure is maintained if the pump is stopped? What is the mechanism that maintain the pressure during that second or two?
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?

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Re: Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

Post by JohnB » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:32 pm

I imagine it is the Progressive P/I chamber bleeding down. I'll pay more attention next time I play with it.
Speedster/Bosco Sorrento/ K10WBC/K30/Bunnzilla
KvdW/Pullman/RB Tampers
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slo
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Re: Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

Post by slo » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:59 pm

JohnB wrote:I imagine it is the Progressive P/I chamber bleeding down. I'll pay more attention next time I play with it.
I just read Mark's Prince article on the Speedster and it seem that indeed it would be a feature of the Speedster to allow progressive "post-infusion".
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?

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JmanEspresso
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Re: Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

Post by JmanEspresso » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:01 am

In my head, there should be no reason why the water pressure wouldn't drop to, and stay at, whatever your Line Pressure it set too.. as long as the brew path solenoids stay open.

Thats what I want to do with the VII. Put toggle switches on the Solenoids, so I can leave them open, so when I turn off the pump, I can have line pressure, and then flip the toggle switch, closing the solenoids.
--La Spaziale Vivaldi II w/Programmable Preinfusion -- Macap MXK -- Baratza Vario -- Bunn G2 -- Peter Dienes 550 Mokka -- Yama TCA-5 -- Yama SY5/SY8 -- Bodum Presses -- Clever Coffee Dripper -- Aeropress Coffee Brewer

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slo
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Re: Ive got a thought for a "profiling" mod. . .

Post by slo » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:35 am

As we had discuss before, the pressure will (very quickly) drop to line pressure. I though that you wanted to get what John has which is progressive pressure drop?

Indeed if you cut power (with an exterior switch) to the pump the line pressure is still applied until the volume of water as reached it target value at which point the group solenoid will close as well.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?

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