Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

The progressive pre-infusion option can be added to any current LaSpaziale Vivaldi machine - S1, V2, or V2 mini. It is the only pre-infusion option for the S1 and V2 Mini. V2 users who are NOT confident in their ability to swap out their controller board but still want the benefits of pre-infusion can also use this option.
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Endo
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Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Endo » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:40 pm

Wow. It's a lot bigger than I thought. A little more complicated looking too. For some reason I didn't expect the end to be open like that. Makes sense though.

Lots of nice machined brass parts. C-clip, spring, machined end, nice brazing and welds. Seems worth $80 now.

I got a new 11mm diffuser as well. Very different hole pattern than my 13mm. I will try this before the p/i to see if I can taste the difference.
Last edited by Endo on Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives

Post by Endo » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:57 pm

No room for a solenoid shut-off. But since the back of the piston is accessible, I'm thinking a mechanical lockout of some sort may be possible. Maybe even a stepped lockout for different p/i times....hmmmm.
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives

Post by JohnB » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:02 pm

Endo wrote:No room for a solenoid shut-off. But since the back of the piston is accessible, I'm thinking a mechanical lockout of some sort may be possible. Maybe even a stepped lockout for different p/i times....hmmmm.
I suppose the inside of the Mini is a little more cramped. You couldn't fabricate new connector pipes that would loop up or back to a cut off solenoid & then return to the can?
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives

Post by Endo » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:45 pm

I decided to install the p/i chamber with the little copper tube. It seems the threaded end on the chamber is pretty long. I looked inside the brew head threaded hole and saw there were less threads and something copper just at the end. So to avoid a clash, I went with the shorter adapter they give you for the copper tube. Probably overly cautious, but why take a chance?
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives

Post by Endo » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:56 pm

So I made some p/i videos for anyone interested:

This first one shows the chamber installation and a quick blank shot with a PF gauge in place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG4KCrQdCGI

The pressure seems to ramp up pretty fast, so I was wondering if the piston was seized, so I tried putting a toothpick in the end of the chamber and took this video which seems to confirm it was working:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a157JB2g_E8

Then I decided to try a shot. Now, first let me say I ran out of beans and had to switch, so the grind is not right (too fast, too coarse), but I just wanted to show the delay from the time the pump started. Seems to be about 4 or 5 seconds. Also, I had the single cup dose set for about a 40ml shot. I only get about half this now since about 20 ml goes to the chamber first. I'll adjust on the next shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no5cVbLwtT4

What has the taste been like? Too early to say, but so far it seems very promising. :grin:
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by mdreuben » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:20 am

Endo wrote: I got a new 11mm diffuser as well. Very different hole pattern than my 13mm. I will try this before the p/i to see if I can taste the difference.
11 mm diffuser? Is this different than what comes stock with the machine?

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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by chas » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:27 am

The original S1s from Chris Coffee came with the thicker diffuser. After numerous complaints from early adopters that they wanted to be able to get more coffee into their double baskets, CC started shipping all his units with the thinner disk. Apparently, machines not distributed by CC still use the thicker disk.

If you click the V1 Site link in the upper right corner of each forum page you will see side-by-side photos of both disks.
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Endo » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:37 am

And as a side note to Chas's comments:

I now have both and alterate between them. I have both since mine is a LaSpaziale direct model that comes with the 13mm. I like to soak my screens and diffuser overnight and so like to have a complete replacement set and so I bought a spare 11mm from CC.

I think the original is better (in theory), simply because it is bigger and holds more heat and also because the holes are spread out over a wider area. I don't think the 11mm difference is in the larger dosing, although I'm sure that was the original intention. Since I always dose the same amount by leveling across the top of the basket and then tamping to the bottom of the ridge, the difference is more about addtional head space. In my opinion, the 11mm is better in this regard.

So which one do I prefer? I say the 11mm. (but I'd prefer if it had the other hole pattern). Does it make a difference in the cup? I don't think I would be able to distinguish which one I was using by taste alone. I can ony tell by looking at the smaller indentation of the bolt head in the wet puck.
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Niko » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:22 pm

Nice videos, Endo!
:thumbleft:
It seems a little awkward to hear a vibe pump inside a Vivaldi after living with the rotaries for a few years. Nice to finally hear one roar in a video. Thanks for posting the links.

So what do think of the P/i since you've lived with it for about a week?
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Endo » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:05 pm

I like the p/i a lot. Not a HUGE improvment I'd say, but definitely noticeable and makes the machine more forgiving. Definitely worth the money.
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Niko » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:43 pm

Maybe it's more forgiving, not sure since I didn't have any problems with before. Guess I'm used to it after a few years without but I must say it's the flavors that does it for me.
I probably would've switched to my E61 machine for straight shots again if it wasn't for the P/i on the Vivaldi (finally).
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by chas » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:01 pm

I have a confession which will probably make JohnB's day. Recently I noticed that my shots were all consistently excellent and picture perfect. Then I noticed that somewhere along the line I had turned off preinfusion and forgotten that I had done so!
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Endo » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:04 pm

chas wrote:I have a confession which will probably make JohnB's day. Recently I noticed that my shots were all consistently excellent and picture perfect. Then I noticed that somewhere along the line I had turned off preinfusion and forgotten that I had done so!
Trouble-maker ! :lol:
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Niko » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:36 pm

I think you need to "accidentally" turn it back on :evil:

:lol:
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Endo » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:22 pm

chas wrote:I have a confession which will probably make JohnB's day. Recently I noticed that my shots were all consistently excellent and picture perfect. Then I noticed that somewhere along the line I had turned off preinfusion and forgotten that I had done so!
I have the "progressive" pre-infusion. Way better than the "stepped" pre-infusion. (Bait). :twisted:
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Weska » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:52 am

Yeah! Yeah, Endo! Progressive is analog, and stepped is just a digital makeshift.
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by RapidCoffee » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:34 pm

My preinfusion retrofit kit (cylinder) arrived last week, and I finally found time to install it on Friday. First impressions: so far, I'm underwhelmed. The pour starts more slowly, but I can't honestly say the extractions look or taste any better. I'll keep experimenting with it, of course, but I might even remove it if I don't see any improvements.

I finally got to experience the dubious pleasure of removing (and then reattaching) the knurled plastic knobs that hold on the side panels. :roll: That was a minor PITA. Now my machine is noticeably more noisy than before: something is rattling when I turn on the pump. That gives me the opportunity to do it all over again. What fun. :evil:
Last edited by RapidCoffee on Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Endo » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:42 pm

Yup. Like I said, I didn't notice a huge difference in taste. I'll still keep it since I believe it does make the shots a little more forgiving and slightly slows down the quick starts (at least on the Mini).

If the chamber wears out and starts leaking, I'll probably just remove it rather that fix it. It was a fun experiment at least.
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by JohnB » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:59 pm

I don't think the knurled nut holes were properly aligned on the S1V1s as I always hear owners complaining. The V2 lines up nicely but you can easily remove the front, top & rear covers without removing the side panels.
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by KatKat » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:37 am

Endo wrote:I like the p/i a lot. Not a HUGE improvment I'd say, but definitely noticeable and makes the machine more forgiving. Definitely worth the money.
Do you still like it? Videos are not available anymore...
I have been trying to slowly create beads and have them merge to a single stream with varying results. Does the p/i help forming slow/sticking beads?

EDIT - I had the wrong quote before.
Last edited by KatKat on Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Weska » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:37 pm

Not sure about Niko, but he is a man likely to stick with his story. I can say that I installed the piston preinfusion on my S1, and I've liked the consistency and lack of tiny jets indicating pinhole channeling. The latter have just gone away.

In answer to your specific question I can't offer much because I'm pretty content with whatever mouse tail I get if the taste is good. (It mostly is.) I have casually noticed that I get, with a typical 15 gram dose for a double, some sputtering drops before the mouse tail forms. But I can't say that I've noticed whether that always happens, and I don't associate with any particular flavor outcome. I can't say that it didn't happen that way before preinfusion either.

Some great help, huh?
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Re: Pre-infusion Arrives (now with videos)

Post by Endo » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:58 pm

I think you are talking about 2 different pumps here.

I assume the mechanical progressive pre-infusion chamber will have a bigger effect on the regular S1 since it uses a rotary pump. The Mini uses a vibe pump, so there is already a natural progressive pressure build-up, similar to the effect given by the pre-infusion chamber, so it is almost redundant.

I didn't notice much difference when I installed it a year ago. Still, I left it in since I feel it provides the best pressure delivery possible. I know some people argue some beans need less pre-infusion. I just don't share that view.

As to whether the pre-infusion reduces chanelling. Well, all I can say is, it should. I find the Vivaldi channels more than most machines and is rather sensitive to prep (the opposite of what is often claimed). So it's often difficult to tell whether the pre-infusion is helping or it is simply a consequence of the normal variation in prep.
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