Mini running off a flojet

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yokomist

Mini running off a flojet

Post by yokomist »

Hey Team,

I just wanted to start a thread on running a Mini off a FloJet pump. There have been questions recently on other coffee group websites and given that this is the home of the Vivaldi, its a good place to bring the subject up.

Reasons for doing this Mod for me:
- Longer time between refilling the internal tank
- Easy to incorporate filtering into the system
- Flojet will also power a mini sink on my coffee bar to rinse out milk jugs

I have ordered a Flojet Water Dispensing System BW1000a. I plan to order a mini float valve to be installed in the side of the internal tank, and a 10" carbon filter system for general filtration.

Has anyone done this before? If so it would be great to know what float valve you used. I think the one Chris sells will be too long for the Mini's tank. I am also concerned about the Flojet running too often, although I hope the filter and internal tank will offer a buffer and the float valve should only allow a little water to enter at once. I am also concerned about cleaning of the internal tank and float valve (from water slime) and also what type of easily disconnectable fitting to install to allow the machine to be removed from the Flojet supply if I need it to be taken somewhere for an event.

Does anyone seem major issues?

Look forward to any input!

Bevan
Endo

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

A great project I look forward to seeing develop ! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I brought it up as well when I first bought my machine (since I bought mine mostly for the lower cost.....not the reservoir option).

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1056

The thought comes back at times (like when I can't get softener cartridges).

It would be great to have a simple option that would allow you to do both. Kinda surprising Chris Coffee doesn't offer something like on other machines. Then again, perhaps that might cut into the regular S1 sales.

But like you say, we should be able to come up with something easy others can apply.
yokomist

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by yokomist »

I dont know if I would trust the float valve without some type of overflow safe gaurd if it was directly plumbed into water lines, but I guess the worst flooding I could get would be less than 5 gallons. Thats another nice part about using the Flojet. Also nice to not have to worry about playing with the water lines in a house that is rented.

Right now my Mini is boxed up awaiting my flight to New Zealand but I am trying to buy all the parts I am going to need to set up this coffee cart when I get back. Certainly cheaper to buy parts here in the US! Because my machine is packed, can anyone give me the rough measurements of the Mini's water tank (WxL) so I can know what size float valve will fit?

The good news is that I will not need a softener in the system, but what type of filters are you folk using? I am on a pretty limited budget, so I was thinking just a carbon filter (10") should do the trick. I know you use the built in softener/filter Endo, how do you like that?

Bevan
Endo

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

yokomist wrote:I dont know if I would trust the float valve without some type of overflow safe gaurd if it was directly plumbed into water lines, but I guess the worst flooding I could get would be less than 5 gallons. Thats another nice part about using the Flojet. Also nice to not have to worry about playing with the water lines in a house that is rented.
I thought of simply modifying my water cooler somehow. It has a float inside the cooler and I assume works on the same principle. This way it would work on a simple gravity feed and not require any power. They are also cheaper than buying a FlowJet.
yokomist wrote: Because my machine is packed, can anyone give me the rough measurements of the Mini's water tank (WxL) so I can know what size float valve will fit?
5.5"W x 7"L x 6"H
yokomist wrote:The good news is that I will not need a softener in the system, but what type of filters are you folk using? I am on a pretty limited budget, so I was thinking just a carbon filter (10") should do the trick. I know you use the built in softener/filter Endo, how do you like that?
I use cartridges when I can get them (I've only used 3 since owning the machine). I mostly use 50/50 tap water and RO in the past and it is likely I will go back once this latest cartridge is finished in 1 month.

The cartridges are expensive at $25 each and only last 3 months max. Probably less since they say they only have enough softener to drop the hardness about 5 grains for less than 20 reservoirs full. Seem like a lot to pay for just little softening and the loss of about 0.5L volume in the reservoir.
yokomist

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by yokomist »

Thanks for the tank measurements Endo!

I am thinking about this float valve:
http://www.floatvalve.com/items/mini-fl ... -m252.html

It says Flange to float tip measurement is 5.7", Do you think that would allow enough clearance to mount in the tank on the rear wall?
Can anyone confirm with me that there is enough room behind the tank for the fitting and an elbow for the supply pipe?
Does anyone have any experience with this? lol

Thanks!

Bevan
Endo

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

yokomist wrote:Can anyone confirm with me that there is enough room behind the tank for the fitting and an elbow for the supply pipe?
I'll measure tonight and let you know. In the mean time, I posted a picture that might help a little here:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1481#p17352

Looks like you might have enough room if you mount it a little to left of center and about 1" up from the bottom.

The float itself will be a tight fit in the reservoir, but I can't see why it won't work. After all, my toilet hasn't flooded the house yet and it works the same way. :lol:

I assume the float is that large to supply the necessary closing pressure?

If I can buy a cheap spare reservoir I can experiement with, I plan on doing the same but I wil use a gravity feed from my water cooler rather than a Flo-jet. See photo here:

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1148&p=14103#p14103

If it works without any flooding, I may plumb in my Mini (like the regular S1).
Last edited by Endo on Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
symbology

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by symbology »

The float itself will be a tight fit in the reservoir, but I can't see why it won't work. After all, my toilet hasn't flooded the house yet and it works the same way. :lol:
One HUGE difference. A toilet has an overflow drain for when the float sticks.
Endo

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

symbology wrote:One HUGE difference. A toilet has an overflow drain for when the float sticks.
Ah yes. Good point. I'll need to think about that.

Maybe I'll add another hole near the top and add a line to a drain.
yokomist

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by yokomist »

I ended up buying a smaller float to give me better options on where I can mount it in the tank:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT

I was going to try and go without a drain... but perhaps if the solution is just an overflow tube that shouldn't be too difficult. Still, its another tube to have to mess with when taking out the tank to clean. At least working with the flojet or gravity feed tank like Endo, your flooding is limited to your water supply rather than unlimited flooding from the mains.

The other thing I am trying to decide is whether I should install a small sink next to the machine and Tee into the flojet to suppy a small faucet (like a water filter one) on maybe even just installing one of those sprayers you have by a kitchen sink. The sprayer would be cool to pull out and hose out the drip tray and tank when needed. Although I am no plumbing expert and I am not sure a 1/4" supply line from the pump will have enough pressure to power the sprayer (The pump delivers 1GPM apparently)

Thanks for the photos Endo, very helpful!

Bevan
Endo

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

yokomist wrote:I ended up buying a smaller float to give me better options on where I can mount it in the tank:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT
No 100 PSI rating on that one like on the other. Does that worry you?
yokomist

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by yokomist »

Nah the flow jet puts out 30psi and then the filter will reduce that even more. If anything I'm more worried about not enough pressure to run a faucet.

I think that because its made for RO systems that it should be able to cope.

Or so I hope!

Bevan
Endo

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

Here's the float offered by Chris Coffee for the Isomac Tea:

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... arts/float

Only $15, so perhaps I'll buy one for fun and see if it will work in my Mini Vivaldi reservoir.
yokomist

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by yokomist »

That looks like a great float but the size might be a tight fit maybe?

Interesting that you were thinking of having the float down low in the tank and I was thinking up high. I wonder of the pros and cons of each. Maybe having it higher would be better if you wanted to switch back to the tank for some reason as it would hold more volume. On the other hand having it mounted lower in the tank would mean less water hanging around in the tank.

My used flojet turned up yesterday and works well. The float will turn up on monday and I will report back on the quality of it.

Bevan
Last edited by yokomist on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Endo

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

yokomist wrote:That looks like a grat float but the size might be a tight fit maybe?
I think it's the same as the one you provided the link for. Good news is, if it fits, you can get it easily from Chris Coffee for only $15.

I'll write to Chris and see if his guys have tried installing one in the Mini reservoir yet (just to be sure it fits). If not, maybe I can put on a slightly stubbier float (since it looks like a simple plastic bottle they sell everywhere).

If the float fits, I think the rest would be a breeze. There seems to be lots of room for the elbow behind the reservoir, and the tubing can easily be routed out the bottom since there is already a big hole in the frame right below it.

They even sell this whole kit to hook up to a regular softener system (although I'm not sure what extra parts you get that make it worth $69. :shock:

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... s/floatsys
Endo

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

Chris wrote back. Seems he isn't interested in float talk (or any upgrades it seems actually). Says just buy the regular Vivaldi if you want to plumb it in..... or wait 2 to 3 years for the all new Vivaldi.....hmmmm, interesting. :shock:
yokomist

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by yokomist »

It looks like we are on our own then :grin:

I guess Chris is hesitant to encourage diy style mods to these machines which is understandable. I can see for him how its clear cut to just get the other machine.

I am suprised no one has already done this mod because it has to be a good solution for people that want a compromise between the two versions of the machine. Hopefully someone will weigh in eventually with some experience or you have a go yourself Endo, It will be several months before I can get to NZ and set up the new bar.

Funny that the same mod is supported for other machines though...

Bevan
Endo

Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

With thousands of minis sold, I would have thought there would be a few people who bought their mini for an apartment and would want to plumb in once they bought a house.
Well, as you say, I guess it is up to us.
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chas
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Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by chas »

If there's enough demand I bet Chris would kit up something for you. Before I bought the S1 I had an Isomac Tea from Chris and he had a plumb in kit for that which I installed. That's actually where I first got the carbon/softener filter kit that I am still using.
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JeffPersson
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Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by JeffPersson »

Did anyone ever get this running? My Mini is arriving on Tuesday from Chris Coffee and I'd be interested in seeing how viable it is to plumb the Mini even though the reservoir is likely going to be sufficient for my needs.
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chas
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Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by chas »

Thanks for the reminder. I have never followed up on this but I will. I am not sure whether the demand is there for a unique solution. However, if the old Isomac solution can be used albeit with a new set of installation instructions and CCS will support it, you may have an option.
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Endo

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

Hey Chas, you can tell Chris that if he sends me a flo-jet, Isomac float and extra reservoir, I'd be willing to Beta test it. :lol:
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Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by chas »

Well, that wasn't the plumb-in solution I was thinking of but you did remind me that the Isomac actually has two plumb-in kits that CCS offers and I did try them both. The first is the one you are talking about. It uses a miniature "toilet float" mechanism to turn the home water supply into the pour-over tank on and off.

The other solution, which is the one I was talking about, is just a small solenoid valve with the proper brass connectors so that one end connects to the home water supply via John Guest connectors and the other connects to the pump inlet. In that case the tank was completed removed, though for the Mini it would have to remain for cosmetic reasons. It had an wire with the right connectors so that it daisy chained with the proper connection to turn on the solenoid valve any time the pump turned on.

It looks like both are still shown on the CCS website: http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/isomacparts

I thought the float system was a bit problematic and did require a fair amount of drilling and cutting to mount on the tank. The direct system, while costing more, was an easy addition and worked great with no worries that a float might fail and you'd come home to find your kitchen floor under water!
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Endo

Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by Endo »

I like the solenoid solution better as well. See if you can convince Chris to sell a solenoid "plumb-in kit" (with instructions, wiring, etc) for the Mini. I'd buy it in a second. I may run it off a flo-jet at first or perhaps add the standard Guest softener and plumbing under my sink. It woud be great to have both options.

If others are interested, let Chris know!
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Re: Mini running off a flojet

Post by JeffPersson »

I would order one.
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