steaming and microfoam

[spaceman3]

I think I may have missed something when learning how to steam on my Mini. My foam has pretty much sucked from day 1, which was about a month ago. I've been blaming it on the milk, or the tip, or the way I've held the pitcher, or anything else I can think of. Today I tried something different. I started by only opening the steam a little, then after a few seconds, submerging the tip and going to full throttle. I thought I had read that everyone was starting with full steam from the get go, but I now think that I was probably wrong, as this time the foam was finally there (I went too hot both times and burnt the milk, but that'll get better from now on.) Do you guys all do it this way, too? The videos I've seen of steaming are not from the mini, so I couldn't really tell the right technique.

[Endo]

I've been struggling a lot with the steaming as well, so don't feel bad.

I used to be able to make PERFECT microfoam on my old Silvia. On the Mini-Vivaldi, I still haven't found the perfect solution.

I started with the stock tip. In my case, I have the 3 hole tip (since it is the Euro model from LaSpaziale). It has a LOT of power. I then bought the 4 hole tip with smaller holes. The power is reduced quite a bit (too much I think). This tip gives you more time and control, but I find it worse for stretching and produces more bubbles.

I'd buy another 4 hole tip and drill out the holes slightly, but I like the slightly more "downward" direction of the holes on the 3 hole tip. I find this makes for a better whirlpool.

I've since gone back to the 3 hole tip and simply use more milk in the pitcher (a bit of a waste but the best foam so far). My perfect solution would be a 3 hole tip but with slightly smaller 1.1 mm holes angled more downwards. If I was really creative, I might try and make different shaped holes.

I added the S5 arm and this helps a bit since you can get the tip all the way to the bottom so you can get a better whirlpool going off the bottom corner of the pitcher.

I like the lever a lot. Since with the S5 arm you have exactly the same steam setup as the expensive S5! Makes me feel like a real Barista. The downside is, it is almost completely on/off. I might try experimenting by opening only a bit during the stretching portion as you suggested (up to 90F), but I don't think this is a real solution since it is almost impossible to control. A two position lever (with adjustable minimum steam position) would be super cool.

I think the solution lies in using the bigger tip, longer S5 arm, more milk, stretching to 90F using thermometer, choosing the right pitcher and finding the "sweet spot" to aim the wand in the pitcher.Tricky....but hopefuly I'll eventually find how it all comes together. I'll let you know when I find it.

[David23]

I have had much better results with my MINI and the stock 4 hole tip than with my old Gaggia. I use 2% organic milk, ice cold 20 oz. pitcher, and just enough milk for one big Cappa. I stretch the milk with the tip near the surface very briefly with full steam, up to about 90 degrees, then sink the tip to create the whirlpool. I stop the steam around 130 - 140 leaving the tip submerged for a few seconds after the steam is turned off (this last step seems to make quite a difference in "finishing" off the microfoam) This process seems to get consistently good results, sometimes just a tad too dense, but usually pretty good. Certainly more consistent than my shots!

[spaceman3]

Maybe part of my problem is the 12oz pitcher I'm using. I just ordered a 16oz pitcher, and that could help.

[Endo]

I use a 16 oz pitcher, kept in the freezer as well. Filled a little less than half full. Usually 2% and sometimes 3.25% milk.

I use a tapered pitcher (only one I could find). I'm thinking I'll try a straight sided pitcher if I can find one.

Steaming is all about knowing when to go from stretching to rolling and then finding that "sweet spot" in the pitcher to get the right whirlpool action. Things happen much faster on the 3 hole. Not much room for error but I like the power, especially when you go up to a 20oz pitcher.

[oton]

I think the solution lies in using the bigger tip, longer S5 arm, more milk, stretching to 90F using thermometer, choosing the right pitcher and finding the "sweet spot" to aim the wand in the pitcher.Tricky....but hopefuly I'll eventually find how it all comes together. I'll let you know when I find it.

I'd like to think that is not necesary to change S1 steam arm to make perfect microfoam...

[chas]

I think the various arms - stock and optional - for the S1 are just for personal preference of the owner. Beyond that, the quality of the finished product depends on getting the right tip for your machine and the typical quantity of milk you normally steam. Beyond that it depends on how long it takes the machine to train you how to use it!

One thing we've discussed on this topic in past threads is the milk itself. Before you beat yourself up too bad it's a good idea to try a different milk supplier. At different times of the year here - though not normally in the winter - the cows' diet changes and I can't get good microfoam from my normal supplier. Switching suppliers for a period of time is usually the answer.

[Endo]

Beyond that it depends on how long it takes the machine to train you how to use it!

It is a pro steaming machine, (probably one the the strongest available) and so it's difficult to learn on and favors more milk. You have a lot of power and need to balance that. It takes time for sure. I made several milk drinks today, swapping tips in between. I'm still not decided on which tip is best, but I think sticking with one would be a good idea.

The S5 arm is not essential, if you use a 12oz pitcher or smaller. But if you use a large 16oz pitcher or bigger, I believe the longer S5 is necessary.

One thing we've discussed on this topic in past threads is the milk itself. Before you beat yourself up too bad it's a good idea to try a different milk supplier. At different times of the year here - though not normally in the winter - the cows' diet changes and I can't get good microfoam from my normal supplier. Switching suppliers for a period of time is usually the answer.

I haven't encountered a problem with the milk I use. I could get perfect microfoam on my Silvia with skim milk, soy or anything up to 3.25% and any supplier.

I was even capable getting decent foam on my Krups thermoblock toy (just took a lot longer). Having developed "low power steaming skills", I had a lot of problems when I switched to my Anita. My machine had a unique and very powerful two hole tip. I could never get the same creaminess I got on my slower Silvia. It was always separated into thick bubbles on top and very thin on bottom (indication I'm not getting a good whirlpool to mix the two). The Vivaldi is the same, and the lever on the Mini makes it that much harder.

I'll also play with the partially open lever like you suggest. I may install a "lever limiter" to cut off some of the top end power in a controllable way. If it works I'll make a video.

I'm sure I'll eventually get there. I think the key is getting a pro (who all use big machines) to give you technique help. I'm doing this now.

[Cliff]

I am having to start all over myself. I had just found the sweet spot when I switched to the Motta pitchers and the S5 steam arm(love them both). I am totally off my game now

[JohnB]

I haven't encountered a problem with the milk I use. I could get perfect microfoam on my Silvia with skim milk, soy or anything up to 3.25% and any supplier.

Between the perfect micro foam & incredible shots you say you always got from your Silvia I have to wonder why you ever sold it??

[Endo]

Between the perfect micro foam & incredible shots you say you always got from your Silvia I have to wonder why you ever sold it??

So do I sometimes. With the PID installed on Miss Silvia, it was a heck of a lot easier than the Vivaldi for steaming. I might try going with a single steam hole so I can match my old Silvia experience.

All my perfect Latte Art pictures I've shown are from my Silvia. And I was able to do it in less than 1 month of trying. I'm still too embarrassed to show my Latte Art from the Vivaldi, and I'm at month 3.

I really expected the Vivaldi to be easier. But it's been like trying to handle I high powered race car. Still, I'm enjoying the challenge and the espresso taste has been excellent lately. I'm sure its just a matter of time before I get the steam power mastered.

[spaceman3]

I'm just happy to know it's not just me. It really isn't easy to get the steam under control, but shouldn't it be simpler? I had a friend who came over and steamed fairly well, and he used to work in a coffee shop for years. I watched, took notes, and then went to town for a month, with little improvement. That is, until the other day, when I opened the steam valve slower and it changed things by 25%. My first decent batch of foam since I got the damn machine. But it does make a good shot.

[Endo]

I'm just happy to know it's not just me. It really isn't easy to get the steam under control, but shouldn't it be simpler? I had a friend who came over and steamed fairly well, and he used to work in a coffee shop for years. I watched, took notes, and then went to town for a month, with little improvement. That is, until the other day, when I opened the steam valve slower and it changed things by 25%. My first decent batch of foam since I got the damn machine. But it does make a good shot.

I agree. The stock Vivaldi is not a good machine if you like to make perfect velvety smooth microfoam for good Latte Art.

I just finished making 10 milk drinks (Lattes and Caps). I used all milks, 1%, 2% and 3.25% . All fresh from today. I used pitchers from 12oz up to 32oz and swapped tips from 3 to 4 hole. I was successful on making "average quality microfoam" on only 1 of the 10 drinks. Some were so bad they ended up being sink shots.

The technique that gave the best result so far was:
- 2% milk
- 12 oz pitcher (frozen) filled half full with milk (that's a lot of milk)
- 4 hole tip
- stretch until 100F
- get a good roll using the side of the pitcher (that is the hardest part with the multi directional 4 hole tip).
- tap and swirl the pitcher
- pour off the first 1/3 into the sink (this is the trick)
- pour art

You need to pour off the top because you can't seem to get rid of the bigger bubbles generated on this machine.

The foam is still poor by my standards, and makes art with poorly defined edges.

Next I will try modifying a tip with a single center hole. I'll hoping this will help get me closer.

No more Latte dragons or triple rosettas with this machine!

[oton]

Could anyone post a picture of good latte art from a Vivaldi?

[David23]

I have not been having the trouble others have described with the MINI and making foam, and I use the stock arm and tip. I use a 20 0z. frozen pitcher, filled about 1/3 full. I stretch to a lower temp than Endo, usually around 90 degrees max, then sink the tip and whirlpool until about 130. It does all happen pretty quickly. While I don't have the experience that many others posting here do, I seem to be having consistent results with the stock setup and slightly tapered 20 oz pitcher.

[Endo]

I can make foam. That's no problem. I find the true quality of the foam only really shows up once I try and pour a rosetta. Here's one I did with my Silvia:

Silvia Latte Art

s_49th.jpg (54.67 KiB) Viewed 41726 times

Now here's one from my Vivaldi using a 4 hole tip and stretching to 100F then rolling. I've made better, but this shows the issues. Big bubbles and a big blob that comes out at the end.

Vivaldi Latte Art

DSC01166.JPG (39.8 KiB) Viewed 41719 times

[chas]

Your big bubble issues looks just like what happens when I use the 4-hole 1.2mm tip. I don't get that with the 4-hole, 0.9mm tip unless I really screw up and don't pay attention. I definitely think 100F is too long to stretch with the VII. I don't actually use a thermometer. I do the ole hand on the bottom technique where I stop stretching the instant I sense a temperature change.

That said, one comment about tips. I think there is as much variability with tips as with many of the other parts for this machine. I have an older S5 steam arm and it is not the same shape as the ones currently shipping. I have three double baskets - all are a little different than each other. I have five tips. In addition to the number and size of the holes, I think the angle of the holes differs on tips made at various times and that is one of the most critical parameters.

I have another Std two hole tip not shown plus the tip that is part of the no burn steam arm

tips3.gif (183.79 KiB) Viewed 41706 times

[David23]

Endo, Nice art!! I should really just keep my mouth closed.
I can only pour ameboes at this point, but I am working hard to try and get the right type of foam. I'm not getting the big bubbles, but probably would get the blob, except that I usually have just a little more foam than I need for a single capp, so I am not pouring out all of the foam, and consequently not a blob. I have noticed however that the remaining foam is thicker, and now realize it is probably the blob you show. I am not going as hot as 100 while stretching.

[Endo]

Endo, Nice art!! I should really just keep my mouth closed.
I can only pour ameboes at this point, but I am working hard to try and get the right type of foam. I'm not getting the big bubbles, but probably would get the blob, except that I usually have just a little more foam than I need for a single capp, so I am not pouring out all of the foam, and consequently not a blob. I have noticed however that the remaining foam is thicker, and now realize it is probably the blob you show. I am not going as hot as 100 while stretching.

The blob is caused by a separation between the bubbles (on top) and the thin milk (on the bottom). Ideally, it all gets mixed together from top to bottom in the pitcher. Look at the quality of the microfoam in the first pic (not the art). See how thick it is and how it sticks to the sides with no visible bubbles. It stays thick in the cup for much longer and really improves the "mouthfeel" of a Latte.

I believe the problem with the "Pro" tips for a person like me (used to a single tip), is that if the tip is at an angle, you are getting some jets too submerged (heating and swirling) and others too high (bubbles).

I think I've made the best foam when I keep the arm PERFECTLY verticle when stretching (so all holes are submerged equally). The speed and power of the jets also makes it hard for beginners.

I took some advice from H-B and shoved toothpicks in 2 of the wholes of my 3 hole tip. I haven't tried it yet, but I'll report my findings when I do. If it works well, I'll buy a spare tip, solder the holes permantly closed and drill a 1.3mm hole in the center.

I definitely think 100F is too long to stretch with the VII. I don't actually use a thermometer. I do the ole hand on the bottom technique where I stop stretching the instant I sense a temperature change.

I don't always stretch to 100F. I vary from 80F to 100F depending on how it looks. I usually use the "hot hand" and also "sound" technique rather than a thermometer. I usually wait a 4 seconds after it's too hot. This calibrates with the thermometer to 155F.

In addition to the number and size of the holes, I think the angle of the holes differs on tips made at various times and that is one of the most critical parameters.

Yes, this may be one of the issues.

[Endo]

OK. Just finished plugging the holes to make a single hole tip.

Results? Very encouraging!

It seems going back to the single hole will bring me back to my Silvia microfoam. The whirlpool is MUCH improved and the milk is much better blended and consistant. I still have a few too many bubbles, but I think that is just a matter of getting the tip height correct during the stretch.

Does anyone know if they sell a single hole tip that will fit? If not, I'll buy another 4 hole tip, solder the holes closed and drill a 1.3mm hole in the center.

In the meantime, I'll keep working with the 4 hole tip. It's about 10 seconds faster so I'd like to get it too work if possible.

[Endo]

Eureka!

More playing with the 4 hole tip this morning. Best results yet!

The key seems to be to ignore the steaming videos (from Chris Coffee) where the wand is at an angle during stretching and instead go with a perfectly vertical wand. This gives every steam jet exactly the same surface depth during stretching phase. By doing this, big bubbles are avoided. I then roll simply by submerging to the exact center of the milk and just leave it there. This forms a "toroid" type swirl that blends into the center rather than trying to form a whirlpool like with the single hole tip.

[David23]

Endo, Glad to hear it is working well for you! I have been doing it about as you describe, staying very vetical, maybe that is why I hadn't had problems with larger bubbles. My worst foams were when I tried angling the pitcher etc. as I had seen in some videos. I would get milk on the bottom and foam on top. Staying vertical seems to almost always produce a nice velvety micro foam throughout the pitcher.

I am slowly improving my shots. I seem to be having better luck with taste with much longer pours, in the 45-55 sec range for 1 1/2 oz. Really slow forming dark drips, finally coming together in the very fine stream (is that the mouse tail I keep hearing about?). Not sour, not bitter. This is the risetto pour you have mentioned to me in the past?

[Endo]

Endo, Glad to hear it is working well for you! I have been doing it about as you describe, staying very vetical, maybe that is why I hadn't had problems with larger bubbles. My worst foams were when I tried angling the pitcher etc. as I had seen in some videos. I would get milk on the bottom and foam on top. Staying vertical seems to almost always produce a nice velvety micro foam throughout the pitcher.

That seems to be the trick!

I am slowly improving my shots. I seem to be having better luck with taste with much longer pours, in the 45-55 sec range for 1 1/2 oz. Really slow forming dark drips, finally coming together in the very fine stream (is that the mouse tail I keep hearing about?). Not sour, not bitter. This is the risetto pour you have mentioned to me in the past?

That's a bit long on time but still might deliver good taste (my shots have been running a bit long too). You might want to have a look at this brew ratio thread. It explains a lot:

http://www.home-barista.com/tips/brewin ... t2402.html

[Endo]

Getting better with the 4 hole tip and vertical wand. Still too many macro-bubbles though.

4 hole tip, bubbles

bub.jpg (45.49 KiB) Viewed 41601 times

[spaceman3]

Where does one buy all these tips? I'd like to try the 3 hole one and see what happens. If I was to shove the end of a toothpick in one of the 4 holes of the 4 hole tip, does it really stay in there when you steam, or does it easily come loose?

[oton]

How the hell I can make proper microfoam!?

Best attempt...

[Endo]

You're getting there. You just need to be SUPER accurate on the height of the wand during stretching. Try lowering it just a tiny bit lower in the milk during the stretch. You might need to vary the length of time for stretching as well.

Things happen much slower (and easier) if you reduce the size and number of tip holes. You can try plugging 2 or 3 of the 4 holes with bits of a toothpick to see if that helps. I'm going to solder closed all the holes on a spare tip and drill a 1.2mm single center hole.

[oton]

AAARGH!!




My foam is too thick and dense (i must recognize that it has a very good mouthfeel, it kicks my Nespresso Aeroccino ass) but it's no good to make art.

[Endo]

Hey ! Looking good.

I still get those "mini-bubbles" as well. Not sure how to get rid of them.

[Endo]

A few more adjustments to steam holes and pressure and I'm getting closer to the microfoam I've been aiming for. Not my tightest rosetta, but no more macrofoam bubbles at least:

Microfoam

micro.jpg (37.13 KiB) Viewed 41396 times

[Endo]

One last change to my steaming technique.....smaller pitcher.

I've been using a 20oz tapered pitcher for a while. I thought a smaller pitcher would make things worse (given the powerful steam), but when I tried a small straight sided 12oz pitcher, it seemed a lot easier to get the whirlpool going. My microfoam is coming out beautifully with the 4 hole tip (even though things happen quite fast). Also easier to get a more precise pour for detailed art (like doing bouquets).

I like.

[oton]

My microfoam is coming out beautifully with the 4 hole tip (even though things happen quite fast). Also easier to get a more precise pour for detailed art (like doing bouquets).

This Post is Useless without Pictures

[Endo]

This Post is Useless without Pictures

My wife is getting tired of me telling her to wait before she drinks her Latte so I can snap a picture.

Let's just say it looks better than the last picture I posted here (a couple of posts up).

I've been reading Young Min Lee's book on Latte Art and I've been inpsired lately.

[oton]

I hate the stupid latte art thing! Or my foam is too THICK or is too THIN I'm using the 0.9mm steam tip with a 500ml Motta Pitcher. I have a Espro Toroid too, no difference.

Looking at Latte Art thread on the Pride Page I don't see GREAT latte arts (please, no offense guys) the only one that IMO are good are from Niko. I mean that it's really strange that only one or two people can make a decent latte art in whole forum. What's the problem? The boiler? The tip?

So the question is: it's possible with this machine make latterart like this?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/perryskaravas/

Help.

[michael]

whenever i try the espro pitcher (which i purchased when it was first offered as a hope to do better latte art), my milk comes out way too foamy and thick and i cant get it below the surface; i do much better with my regular pitcher

does anyone have tips on the espro pitcher

[bgour]

whenever i try the espro pitcher (which i purchased when it was first offered as a hope to do better latte art), my milk comes out way too foamy and thick and i cant get it below the surface; i do much better with my regular pitcher

does anyone have tips on the espro pitcher

I'm no latte artiste but...

I would say try stretching for less time and integrating longer. Something about the espro pitcher shape must be giving you more foam and you'll need to compensate by stretching less, perhaps as little as a 3-5 seconds.

[Endo]

First of all, NOBODY can make Latte Art like that. That's from a pro named Perry Karavas....2 time Greek Latte Art Champion and currently ranked 7th in the world. That's like going to a golfing forum and saying, "how come nobody here can play like the guys in the PGA?" It's not the clubs....and it's not the espresso machine.

As far as the Espro goes....I think the Espro Toroid doesn't allow you much flexibility. The unique shape means you are forced to put the tip straight down in the middle to get the "torroid effect". The experts seem to use different parts of the pitcher for different phases. Angled and on the surface for stretching. Deeper and slightly off the side for stage 2 whirlpool. And closer to the center for a mixing effect at the end.

I think things are easier with a straight sided pitcher. I've been using a smaller 12oz straight sided pitcher with more success lately.

That said, the S1 is a steaming BEAST and you have to be able control everything with perfect timing and accuracy to avoid the big bubbles. I only have a 50% success rate right now. It's made even more difficult on the Mini-Vivaldi since the small boiler means the heater will go on and change your pressure half way through. If you are on 15A (like me), you have to be even more careful with heater timing.

I may be a steam wimp, but I found it was MUCH easier (and you get less heater issues) if you slow things down by plugging some of the tip holes with the end of a toothpick. You might want to try that as well.

I'm going to buy another tip soon and solder the holes closed. I'll then open a single 1.2mm hole in the center. I'll let you know how it goes and make a video as well.

[oton]

First of all, NOBODY can make Latte Art like that. That's from a pro named Perry Karavas....2 time Greek Latte Art Champion and currently ranked 7th in the world. That's like going to a golfing forum and saying, "how come nobody here can play like the guys in the PGA?" It's not the clubs....and it's not the espresso machine.

I know who is Karavas. The question is if Karavas use a S1, he would get the same result?

I see lot of very good latte arts in other forums, however no one done with an S1, so I wondering why. For example, doing a quick search in HB...


http://www.home-barista.com/tips/latte- ... 00-20.html

Done with a stupid gaggia classic. Is not like Karavas one, but man, I wish I could do something like that.

[Endo]

I know who is Karavas. The question is if Karavas use a S1, he would get the same result?

Absolutely. If he used a similar tip.

The point I am trying to make is it has very little to do with the machine....only the steam wand tip. And since they sell them for $14 and are easily modified, you can try any number, angle and size of holes you like. You can even make a single hole like the Gaggia if you like.

After that, you can only blame your own technique.

Personally, I find it MUCH easier to get good quality microfoam with a one hole tip. But like I said, I'm a one hole wimp (technique developed on a Silvia). I'm sticking with the 4 hole since it is faster and more "pro", but it takes much longer too master.

I'll post some fancy art pictures next time I pull-off a good one.

[Endo]

Damn you macro-bubbles!!!!

The last couple of days have been VERY BAD for making microfoam using the 4-hole tip. I'm getting discouraged again.

Time to go back to my 1 hole tip crutch.

[sakurama]

So the question is: it's possible with this machine make latterart like this?

Damn - that's insane. I went and looked at that flicker album and it's just nuts. The funny thing to me is how easy it is to miss the mark in both the espresso and the milk and how the people who are good never miss. It seems like I miss the grind half the time when I change beans and it seems that when I gave up trying to make perfect foam and pours it suddenly came together and then I became aware of trying and couldn't do it again.

Today I went to Intelligentsia in Chicago and while they had some great pours they also missed the mark sometimes too and, encouragingly, in much the same way I miss it. I think over time it will become more second nature but for now I miss it all the time.

The other thing I notice is that his espresso is really thin with almost no crema - quite the opposite of what the Vivaldi produces. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVk38yp1kbw

It seems like this makes the pour much easier as the milk (also very thin) blends instantly. Maybe good latte art doesn't use great espresso just decent espresso?

[fiddlefly]

From what I see in the vid, the crema is not thin... it looks very dark, as if it had been over extracted. I guess he would need that (over extraction) in order to get well defined shapes. All the shots seem over extracted so maybe it is for flavour's sake!? Maybe this coffee punches better through milk when over extracted or maybe as stated above, is it for latte art purposes...?

On a side note, Anthony Benda wrote something interresting about that... sacrificing the quality of the drink in order to get the "best" latte art...

[oton]

Perhaps is cocoa?

Anyway, I've been thinking in use overextracted shots to make latte drinks. Right now my milk based drinks are too "soft" for my taste.

[Endo]

Perhaps is cocoa?

Anyway, I've been thinking in use overextracted shots to make latte drinks. Right now my milk based drinks are too "soft" for my taste.

A bad espresso will make a bad milk drink. Over-extracting will just make it bitter. I suggest you go with a darker roast instead.

I've tried some of these "pro Latte art" espresso shots. They look like crap (with no crema) and not suprisingly taste like crap as well. They are basically brewing for contrast.

The best milk drinks I've had were stirred. Actually, in competition, you may notice the judges usually stir before they drink as well.

[oton]

This is soooo DIFFICULT!!

[PBL]

Three comments on the milk based drinks from recent experience:
- overextracting will generally ruin the espresso and the milk based drink, either by getting the bitter end or just diluting the shot.
- the problem may be too much milk, use a smaller cup and try again (I recently dropped our double cap cups in size by three ounces and the quality of the caps went way up), my frothing is usaualy okay, sometimes great.
- vary the coffee, some grinds are better for milk based drinks and some for espressos, some of the finer quality coffees which are more elegant than powerful make great espressos and boring milk based drinks. My experience is generally that the darker the roast the more it will display its flavour in the milk based drinks. (Endo I couldn't agree with your more.)


PS My latte art still sucks so I gave up the artistic side to concentrate on the coffee.

[Endo]

Getting MUCH better results with the 2 hole 0.9 mm tip.

Another important thing to keep in mind. The Mini has a 1.2L boiler which is half the size of the bigger S1. In an ideal world, Chris would have sized the Mini with something like a 3 hole 0.9mm rather than the 4 hole 0.9mm in order to avoid too quick a pressure drop.

2 hole rosetta

DSC01364.JPG (31 KiB) Viewed 40950 times

[Endo]

Time to blow off some steam..........literally!

Found a new steaming trick that helps quite a bit.

The steam pressure on my Mini starts at 1.35 bar but quickly settles down to 1.1 bar after the first 3 seconds. It stays there pretty much forever if you can balance the heating (pressure increase) with the tip area (pressure decrease). I used to do only a tiny cleaning purge, then bury the tip and turn it on, but the first 3 seconds produces the worst macrofoam due to the high pressure and ramp-down. The trick that seemed to work was to bleed the steam for 3 seconds, turn it off, and then immediately sink it in the milk and restart at the constant, lower 1.1 bar.

Nice results even with the 4 hole tip (no toothpicks).

Here a small cap using this method (poured into a single espresso by the way....hence the lighter background color than before).

Cap with steam bleed

cap.jpg (38.74 KiB) Viewed 40892 times

[spaceman3]

That's looking quite good. I'll try that in the morning and see what happens.

Something's changed for me a couple of weeks ago, and my foam seems to be coming out in much better portions now than before. Not sure why exactly, but I guess playing around enough helps us all.

Regarding your latte art-- I can't do this because I have such a thick microfoam right now. How do you get a more "liquidy" foam that's pourable to get the artwork?

[Endo]

Regarding your latte art-- I can't do this because I have such a thick microfoam right now. How do you get a more "liquidy" foam that's pourable to get the artwork?

Too much steam power, too much stretching, too little milk. i suggest:

2 hole method: (slower, but very predictable). Block 2 of the 4 holes with toothpicks (or buy the Chris Coffee 8mm to 10mm adapter and the 2 hole tip). Only method that works for smaller "single serving" 12 oz pitchers.

OR

4 hole method: (faster, but less predictable). Use larger milk volume (16oz or larger pitcher half full). Purge for 3 seconds before start to reduce intital pressure explosion from the lever. Do a very short stretch phase with a vertical steam arm (so all holes are exactly the distance below the surface during the stretch). Forget the swirl during the rolling stage, sink the tip and try to get a torroid style inward roll going (tapered pitcher works best it seems since it deflects the 45 degree jets the best).

The 2 hole tip trick is almost a necessity with the Mini since you have extra challenges not on the regular Vivaldi like the "on/off" lever and the smaller boiler which cycles faster. Also, since there is no pressure-stat, you can't reduce pressure any other way but with the tip (which was designed for the larger boiler).

I strongly believe I'll get the best "Latte Art" quality foam with a slow, single centered hole tip which makes a nice "whirlpool" roll. There is also the secondary benefit of a more stable steam boiler pressure. It will only add about 10 seconds to the steaming time. I'm playing with single center hole sized now and I'll keep you updated on what works.

By the way, anybody want to sell me some spare tips for my experiments? I've run out and CC is charging about $30 per tip including shipping to Canada.

[David23]

FInally got up the courage to post my effort at latte art. I've been able to get to this level on the majority of pours recently, this was last night. I know it has flaws, but for me it is a huge step up from the ameboas I was getting for some time. I'm a little proud of it actually!

[Endo]

Hey! Lookin' good David.

Here's my latest (sorry or the crappy focus).

DSC01511.JPG (37.36 KiB) Viewed 40595 times

[David23]

Thanks Endo, I appreciate it. I only get to make one or possibly two of these in a day, so my practice time is rather limited, but I think I am getting a much better feel for the process. Yours are amazing. They really give me something to aspire to. Do you raise the spout up a little higher when you finish the "wiggle" and start the pour back through the design? I think I may be staying too low, and it seems my pour through distorts the ripple more than it should. Does that seem to make sense?

[Endo]

Do you raise the spout up a little higher when you finish the "wiggle" and start the pour back through the design? I think I may be staying too low, and it seems my pour through distorts the ripple more than it should. Does that seem to make sense?

Yes. When you stay low, you are making white foam on the surface. When you go high, the white foam goes under the surface. On the way back through the concentric circles, you want no surface foam (go high).

[David23]

Thanks, I'll work on that. You can see in my photo how I stayed too low, and my pour through stayed on top, rather than only "shape" the wiggle by going through it.
I leave for Italy on Friday for 10 days, and hope to really try out the true espresso variations over there. I can't wait! I'll take photos of anything that warrants it.

[oton]

Thanks, I'll work on that. You can see in my photo how I stayed too low, and my pour through stayed on top, rather than only "shape" the wiggle by going through it.
I leave for Italy on Friday for 10 days, and hope to really try out the true espresso variations over there. I can't wait! I'll take photos of anything that warrants it.

Don't expect to see great latte art... ermm plain latte art... hell, don't expect to see microfoam! At least thats what I can say about my last trip to Italy. (I returned past tuesday from Alghero, Sardegna; and I'm again in my crappy city ) But I love the Shakeratos in front of the sea.