The Latest S1/VII News from Chris Coffee

What would you change about your LaSpaziale espresso machine?
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The Latest S1/VII News from Chris Coffee

Post by admin » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:05 pm

<b>Shipping Changes</b>
The LaSpaziale Vivaldi II is now shipped in two separate boxes. The plastic cup holder is shipped in a different box with the accessories. This change was made approximately 4 months ago and has drastically reduced shipping damage.

<b>Loose Boiler Terminal Issue Fixed</b>
There were problems with the terminals on the group and heater boiler coming loose. LaSpaziale switched to a different clip that is much more secure and does not pull off during shipping.

<b>Temperature Sensor Supplier Change</b>
LaSpaziale recently changed suppliers of the temperature sensors. They found the new one to be more reliable and more sensitive.

<b> Two New Steam Arm Options
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Post by Niko » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:21 pm

Some good moves there!
I'm most interested in that "new" temp probe, are they talking about both boilers or mainly the steam?
My unit arrived in one piece but that's nice to hear it is shipping in two boxes now.
As for the steam arms, I love my S5 arm on my VII and I still use the shorter one on my S1.
The No Burn arm sounds interesting, can't wait to hear from actual users. I would love see a side by side comparison.

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Re: The Latest S1/VII News from Chris Coffee

Post by raf » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:04 pm

admin wrote: <b>Temperature Sensor Supplier Change</b>
LaSpaziale recently changed suppliers of the temperature sensors. They found the new one to be more reliable and more sensitive.
I think the temperature sensor change is not recent. From what I've been told, all VII's shipped from Chris Coffee were supplied with the new sensor.

Martin

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Post by chas » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:41 pm

I got the No Burn Steam Arm today. Below is a picture of the S5 steam arm and the No Burn Steam Arm. It took 5 mnutes and a 22mm wrench to change out the steam arm. No need to pull any covers.

Image

In the photo below I had been holding the steam arm for about a minute with full steam while I tried to get a good photo. If I tried this will the other steam arm, I'd be in the emergency room.

I've only done one milk drink since I installed it but it worked great and I got perfect microfoam. More in a couple of days once I've steamed several pitchers.

Image
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Post by Niko » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:45 pm

Since it is a 2-hole tip, did you notice much drop in pressure while you held it that long? Nice looking arm...can you post a pic zoomed back a little so we can see the steam arm attached to the Viv?
I just want to see if the No Burn arm makes the Vivaldi's butt look big :lol:

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Post by bbqnut » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:00 pm

I passed on the timer, but this? Must have it.

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Post by chas » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:19 pm

Niko wrote:Since it is a 2-hole tip, did you notice much drop in pressure while you held it that long? Nice looking arm...can you post a pic zoomed back a little so we can see the steam arm attached to the Viv?
I just want to see if the No Burn arm makes the Vivaldi's butt look big :lol:
I didn't notice any drop in pressure over a full minute. I'll take a photo of the arm on the machine and get it posted sometime tomorrow so you can see it on the S1. If you want to see it on a different machine, it's the same arm used on the Andreja Premium.

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... ejapremium
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Post by Niko » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:09 pm

chas wrote:If you want to see it on a different machine, it's the same arm used on the Andreja Premium.
OK...I know that arm very well! Someone in the family owned an Andreja Premium before switching to an S1.

But if you do get around to it, I'd like to see it on an S1 :D .

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Post by chas » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:53 am

OK, here you go. Ignore the dirty machine!

Image
Image
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Post by Niko » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:18 pm

That's nice :o :D
I bet it gobbles up the large pitchers but the only problem there might be the 2-hole tip, can it handle large volumes of milk? I wouldn't install any other tip because it would ruin the No Burn feature.

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Post by chas » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:56 pm

This morning I noticed that the new steam arm was dripping. I also noticed from the pictures I posted that, when I was installing the new steam arm, I must have bumped the fitting to the right. So I just went in to correct those issues.

Turns out that the old arm used a rubber O ring that I has missed and it was jammed up in the joint. Unfortunately, it was trashed so now I can't switch back to the old arm - should I want to - until I get a new gasket. I also learned that the no-burn feature doesn't extend all the way up to the nut. Medic! :angryfire:

At any rate those two issues are fixed!

When I got the new 4 hole tip I posted some times to steam different quantities of tap water to a specific temperature with the old 4 hole and the new 4 hole tips. I'll have to repeat those tests with the new arm and two hole tip. Probably be Saturday before I get around to it.

I also discovered another nice advantage of the no burn steam arm. Milk doesn't immediately get welded on. It's very easy to clean off.
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Post by bbqnut » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:05 pm

Please also let us know when these are up on the Chris Coffee site.

Niko

Post by Niko » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:30 pm

My guess is around the hundred dollar mark...

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Post by bbqnut » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:22 pm

Niko wrote:My guess is around the hundred dollar mark...
Ouch.

I noticed the price of the VII's are now $1995, so I guess there is my $100.

Niko

Post by Niko » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:41 pm

It's only a guess so it might not hurt as much.
...besides, I like burning myself on the S5 arm :D
I'm thinking of changing to the No Burn arm for my other S1....

Niko

Post by Niko » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:32 pm

Chas,
quick question(s)....
from your pics it looks as though the No Burn is a bit longer than even the S5 arm. Is that correct or is it an optical illusion?
If it is longer, can you tell a major difference in performance because of the different bend? i.e., does it stick out like a sore thumb (or any other body part :lol: ).
Bottom line...is the 'dang thing in the way when not in use?...I meant the steam arm.


chas wrote: I also learned that the no-burn feature doesn't extend all the way up to the nut. Medic! :angryfire:
At any rate those two issues are fixed!
You mean the two fingers :lol:?

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Post by chas » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:54 am

Here are my results to heat 8oz of 67F water in a 20oz straight sided pitcher to 140F:


- No Burn tip 23 seconds
- New 4-hole tip 20 seconds
- Old 4-hole tip 16 seconds

Maybe I'll try it with the new 4-hole this weekend both to see what the result of this test is and just how much it wipes out the no heat feature.
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Post by Niko » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:09 pm

Looks like they're finally available for purchase on Chris' site. Not nearly as much as I thought for the No Burn arm...only $45.
Now I might buy one just for the hell of it.

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Post by chas » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:20 pm

I like how Chris is turning his section entitled: "Espresso Machine Replacement/Repair Parts Section #3" into an S1 parts section.
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Post by italyhound » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:59 pm

Catching up here - good news is all around while I was gone. I was excited to try the new 4 hole tip but I will likely buy the new arm with the 2 hole tip in addition and see how they all work out for me.

For me, the only really annoying negative about the VII was the burn factor - this is a big improvement! The longer arm is nice too.

Evan :D

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Post by bbqnut » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:57 am

I think I am getting one of the No Burn arms and new 4 hole tip.

Wondering if the 2 hole tip included with the arm would be good enough for 6-8 ounces of milk, and do a decent job on microfoam.

Any more feedback in this area Chas?

Niko

Post by Niko » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:19 am

I've used that same arm on another machine, Chris.
The power is certainly not what the 4-hole tip provides and it's way slower than the (older) stock 4-hole tip according to Chas' numbers. The only difference I see on that arm on the Spaz vs. the other HX I've tried it on is a little more power but endless steaming. The microfoam should be just as good as anything available but remember that a different tip would defeat the No Burn feature according to Chris' Coffee. That remains to be seen "how much" of the No Burn-ability is lost, Chas will be reporting that soon.

I ordered a No Burn arm for my other S1, I'll report my findings on microfoaming since Chas already reported some nice accurate steaming times with the different tips. I really don't think the arm slows down the steaming, it's definitely the 2-hole tip that does this. The longer arm probably holds more moisture so when you first blow the steam, you probably need a bucket :D

The No Burn arm is a rather elegant looking addition to the S1 and the best part I remember (Chas mentioned this also) is how the milk doesn't get plastered on it making it real easy to clean. I plan on keeping the stock 2-hole tip on it and a 22mm wrench handy for a quick swap whenever I have the desire or need to froth huge pitchers....no big deal 8)

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Post by bbqnut » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:50 am

So you would actually change the whole wand vs. the tip?

Interesting, hadn't thought of that...

But I only pull out the big pitcher 4 times a year.

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Post by bbqnut » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:18 am

I ordered both the no burn and new 4 hole.

I will probably go 4 hole with original wand, and keep the 2 hole with the no burn.

And go buy a spare 22mm wrench to go alongside my 8mm (for the grouphead screen).

Niko

Post by Niko » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:41 am

Damn right.
I wouldn't mess with the No Burn feature of the wand, at least until Chas reports how badly that gets defeated after re-threading the end permanently for the 4-hole tip.

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Post by bbqnut » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:31 pm

Based on the way I understand it, rethreading changes the threads of the tip, not the wand.

Reason I say this - Chris makes a point to say that the original tip will go back on with no problem.

Niko

Post by Niko » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:48 pm

I hope that's the case being only the tip gets rethreaded and not the wand, I'll wait and see what Chas reports or if you would like to be the 1st... :D

Look at the size of the No Burn tip, it's like a 50cal bullet at the end!

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Post by bbqnut » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:55 pm

I like how it smoothly mates with the wand, looks easier to clean for that reason, as well as the fact that it is not as hot.

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Post by italyhound » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:55 pm

Oh man - what did I do? With some elbow grease I got the old arm off but seems to be no way I can get the new one on. The nut does not fit without jamming into the side panel so I can't screw it in.

I appear to have to remove the side panel to do it - otherwise it is a no go. Chas didn't need to - I wonder why I do.....

How do I do that?

Evan

Niko

Post by Niko » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:19 am

italyhound wrote:The nut does not fit without jamming into the side panel so I can't screw it in.
What do you mean? I remember I had to remove the side panel to install the S5 (longer) steam arm only because of the tool being used, it was too large and bulky.

So, have you managed to install it yet?

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Post by italyhound » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:00 pm

OK - So I called Chris and here is the story, which is good if anyone else reads this in the future.

There is some "give" of the steam apparatus. What I had to do was, with the machine off, to turn the steam knob all the way on and then add elbow grease when it stopped. The knob is connected to the entire steam arm unit which ends at the arm outside the machine. By forcing the knob, it actually moved the protruding thread which connects to the arm down and in, enough to clear the side panel and install the arm without any problem whatsover.

The tech told me that I can unscrew the knob completely and then loosen the apparatus to give it more wiggle room but I didn't need it.

Next is to power up and test her for a test drive. vvvrmmm vvrrmmm!

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Post by bbqnut » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:29 pm

Good info.

Niko

Post by Niko » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:48 pm

I'm still waiting for Mr. vvvrmmm vvrrmmm to report his success....

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Post by chas » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:28 am

I tried swapping out the tips this AM and put on the 4 hole tip. I tried yesterday to unscrew the 2 hole tip and could not get a good grip on it. The tip is completely round so you can't use a wrench on it. However, this morning I tried to unscrew it after steaming and the heat probably helped loosen it a bit.

I did need a wrench to get the 4 hole tip started but then it screwed on easily enough. It appears that the 4 hole tip is really English sized rather than metric. An 11mm wrench was too small and a 12mm wrench a bit too large though it worked.

I noted that both tips had an almost identical rubber O ring on the end so I didn't think there would end up being much arm heating difference between the tips. I was wrong, Chris was right again. I still don't think you'd get burned on the new arm with the 4 hole tip but it does get quite a bit warmer.

I think I saw what makes the difference as I was putting the 2 hole tip back on. The internal teflon tube extends into and fits very tightly down into the 2 hole tip. It's not a tight fit with the 4 hole tip. This is going to allow steam to flow back up into the threaded area when using the 4 hole tip but not when using the 2 hole tip. That flow of hot steam up into that area rapidly transfers heat to the arm.

Also as Chris noted it is no problem putting the 2 hole tip back on after the 4 hole tip has been removed.

Later I'll try my heating test to see how long it takes to heat 8oz of 67F tap water to 140F using the 4 hole tip on the new arm. Perhaps this weekend I'll tape the TC above the tip and see the heat difference relative to each tip.
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Post by 4vDesmo » Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:55 pm

Is this new no-burn arm going to be a listed accessory/upgrade, or a special request item only? Any news on the price?

I still haven't been able to find it on Chris' site.

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Post by bbqnut » Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:59 pm


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Post by 4vDesmo » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:06 pm

Oops - thanks for the link, guess I look silly now.

The repair parts sections are almost getting to the point of needed categories instead of numbers. At least that's going to be my excuse.

:-)

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Post by bbqnut » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:34 pm

His site, while not terrible, is still pretty hard to navigate and has been exactly the same for a few years now.

I think it is a miracle (to themselves even) that these old skoolers are even on the "Internets". Therefore, they have no intention of making any changes, regardless of the potential for it to bring more sales.

Niko

Post by Niko » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:24 pm

...and he's talking about Sweet Maria's too, folks!

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Post by bbqnut » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:41 pm

Niko wrote:...and he's talking about Sweet Maria's too, folks!
Don't even get me started.

SM's site makes Chris Coffee site look like awesome. At least there is some rhyme and reason to CC.

Niko

Post by Niko » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:29 pm

:lol:

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Post by 4vDesmo » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:36 pm

Hey, here's an idea - have a new window open when I click a link to navigate within your site. But do it randomly, just to keep it interesting.

Or not....yeah....I think NOT.

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Post by chas » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:14 pm

bbqnut wrote:
Niko wrote:...and he's talking about Sweet Maria's too, folks!
Don't even get me started.

SM's site makes Chris Coffee site look like awesome. At least there is some rhyme and reason to CC.
Sweet Maria's IS the worst. I have to use the Search function to find almost everything.....once I locate that!
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Post by Niko » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:55 am

Shopping on their website requires the big-ass monitor so you can put up two full web pages side by side, so I not only use a large widescreen display for Photoshop and Final Cut Pro...I need it to shop at Sweet Maria's!
:lol: :roll:
The left side is for the list of green coffee and the right is for the shopping basket, on my other computer with dual displays I play the same game.

Niko

Post by Niko » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:14 pm

Chas,
I just got the No Burn arm and I was reading your earlier post again, are you saying that the washer isn't needed with this new arm? I'm assuming that all I need to do is use the trusty ol' 22mm wrench and remove the old arm and O-ring and just screw in the No Burn arm.

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Post by chas » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:06 pm

That's right.
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Post by Niko » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:16 pm

I exchanged emails with a tech at Chris' and he mentioned needing that O-ring...?...kinda' strange since you didn't really need it.

Niko

Post by Niko » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:06 pm

Just installed the No Burn arm.
Had 3 steaming sessions with it.
1. Sea foam
2. Sea foam
2. Micro foam, OK
I imagine the next time will be even better and hopefully the Latte art won't look like mallard droppings in a pond. It was sort of a rosetta if you stared at it long enough.
The arm is really nice and it stays pretty clean, for sure it's much easier to wipe off. It gets very warm but not too hot to grab hold, definitely a nice addition to the Vivaldi for those who want to slow down their steaming. The turbulence is quite different, this is what stumped me the first 2 attempts and then I realized a weakness for me, others might not care but I don't like the bend in the arm - it's a little too straight for me but I can work around it a bit. I think I'll reinstall the S5 arm on the VII and save the No Burn for my other S1, it'll be nice to have them different.

In conclusion, I'd like to see:
1. slightly more bend in the arm (like the S5 not the S1)
2. More choices of No Burn tips (like a faster 4 hole)

In time we may (or may not) see any of this happen but it's fantastic that Chris offers this steam arm as another choice, I know I'll continue to use it. :P


...and just for the record I never liked the stock S1 arm, the bend didn't have a good feel for me - I always battled the position to the point of almost snapping it off a few times. The S5 arm is "The Arm of Arms", definitely the real winner of the 3 for me...once again, this is just an opinion so take it with a smile :D

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Post by bbqnut » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:52 pm

Got mine installed - used the O-ring, as I could not see leaving it out.

Even though I did reinstall the spring and little brass union thingy, it doesn't seem as stout as the stock arm (i.e. it feels looser).

I will try some milk tomorrow morning, but I know I will like the extra length and ability to touch the arm even while steaming.

Niko

Post by Niko » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:58 pm

I used all the parts as well, O-Ring and springy thingy, etc..
It maybe took 45 seconds to install...it was too easy!
Hopefully ours won't spring a leak (or whatever it did) to Chas' machine, cross your fingers.
I'm a little jittery since I drank all six Cappuccinos but I'm starting to like the No Burn arm more and more :P
I also made a Macchiatto and steamed in a teeny, tiny pitcher and the steam arm was awesome for that.

...no Macchiattos were harmed in this testing (I threw that one out).

Niko

Post by Niko » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:58 pm

bbqnut wrote: I will try some milk tomorrow morning, but I know I will like the extra length and ability to touch the arm even while steaming.
Well? What do you think....?

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Post by bbqnut » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:06 pm

Not so good.

Worse foam ever.

Of course it was skim.

I think I just need to get used to it - or try the new 4 hole.

Niko

Post by Niko » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:02 pm

Yeah, my horse tripped out of the gate too!
Got some really nice bubble bath style foam, sea foam the second round and then something resembling microfoam the third time.
It is something you have to get used to, the actual stream is almost straight down and it's mostly the bend in the arm I need to get used to.
At least my other arm is in the drawer below and 60 seconds away from a re-install :D

Niko

Post by Niko » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:04 pm

Definitely a different pattern.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxm4LdEGgSE

CLB

This just in...

Post by CLB » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:22 pm

What's CLB up to?
Image

Maybe this?
Image

I used the original o-ring, spring and seat.

It passed the exclusive Chas "no emergency room" test.
But can it steam?

Hmmm...
First attempt not so good. I think the longer arm tripped me up a bit. I'll keep trying. It sure cleans up easy.

Round 2 not so good either. I wonder if the smaller teflon tube I.D. or cross section step in the path throttles the flow down. I think I'll try with the original large 4 hole nozzle. I'll play for a while before refitting the original. Reminds me of jetting IDF's on my brother in laws 912.

The original large 4 hole seems to generate a reasonable level of activity in my small pitcher. I am simultaneously out of milk and caffeine tolerance so the next foam test will have to wait.

P.S. Reforming threads in galling stainless steel isn't a great deal of fun.

Niko

Post by Niko » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:20 pm

OK, so let me get this straight...
You wrapped up the teflon tube at the end with teflon tape to not lose the No Burn effect when you install the 4-Hole tip?
I was going to try that but it wasn't high on my list of priorities...so tell me, did it really pass Chas' Medic alert? You didn't get burned?

CLB

Post by CLB » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:43 pm

Niko wrote:OK, so let me get this straight...
You wrapped up the teflon tube at the end with teflon tape to not lose the No Burn effect when you install the 4-Hole tip?
I was going to try that but it wasn't high on my list of priorities...so tell me, did it really pass Chas' Medic alert? You didn't get burned?
Yes. I wrapped the teflon tube with teflon tape so that it will seal to the I.D. of the 4 hole nozzle. Make sure you wrap the tape in the direction shown in the photo. There is enough give in the tape to allow shallow test fits mid wrap. You should feel similat resistance to the original no burn tip. Mine fits a little tighter if anything. Once cut and finished, the tape should push neatly into the nozzle as opposed to folding or bunching. Twist the nozzle as it is fit.

Then again, your self teflon sealing VII may take care of this for you over time.

Make sure you use the original large hole Spaz nozzle. The small 4 hole gives less than satisfactory results given the extra restriction in the wand (longer and smaller I.D.).

Yes, it truly passed the Chas Medic Alert test. Verdict is still out on steaming.

Niko

Post by Niko » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:49 pm

I was actually going to use the larger (old) 4-Hole tip anyways with that arm. I really like the S5 (long arm) also but if I can get a similar feel with a No Burn effect, I'm all for changing it with that mod.
We shall see :D ....

I removed the No Burn arm several days ago, I couldn't handle the steam pattern - good micro foam but I just didn't like the feel.

Niko

Post by Niko » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:19 pm

I re-installed the No Burn, wrapped the teflon around the tube and got it fit just right and passed the burn test, however, the foam was really lousy. I think the tip will give better steaming but only after cutting a little bit off the internal tube, obviously a permanent mod so I'm not sure I'm willing to compromise the steam arm just yet.

To be continued...

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Post by chas » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:49 pm

I talked to Jason at Chris Coffee this AM. He says the snug fit of the two hole tip over the teflon tube on the No Burn steam arm is due to a tiny O ring just inside the threaded end. I had to get out my magnifying glass to convince myself there is really an O-ring there since it is clear silicone. It's definitely there.

There is no notch inside the 4-hole tip as there is in the 2-hole tip so you can't use an O-ring on the 4-hole tip. Thus the teflon tape is about the only option.
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BrewHaHa

Post by BrewHaHa » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:15 pm

It seems like it would be important for the end of the wand to be very well sealed against steam blowing back up between the plastic tube and the wand itself. If steam could blow up there, and if the resultant condensed water couldn't easily drain out, then wouldn't the wand eventually fill up with water?

Seems like this might happen, for instance, if the teflon tape didn't make a sufficiently good seal to keep steam from getting up into the wand, but it was a good enough seal to keep water from draining out.

What if instead of teflon tape, one were to seal the end of the wand around the plastic tube with silicon? If that worked, it would allow different tips to be exchanged without having to readjust the thickness of the tape, while still ensuring a good seal.

(I haven't actually seen the innards of the burn-free wand yet, so I don't know - I'm askin'!)

-John

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Post by bbqnut » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:16 pm

I may have to go back to my original arm with new 4 hole tip.

I don't like the 2 hole tip on the no burn.

I also have a 3 hole tip. I wonder if that would work with the no burn?

Niko

Post by Niko » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:38 pm

I really like the S5 arm the best, it's actually about the same length as the No Burn - the bend makes it look shorter.
I still like the No Burn, it's that No Tip (2-hole) that bothers me a bit but I finally managed to get some good microfoam after a little practice.

Anyways, the No Burn is OFF the VII again and it's going on my other S1 for good.
I'll just live with the 2-hole tip until Chris (maybe) introduces a new No Burn Tip.

CLB

Ok, I tried...

Post by CLB » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:54 pm

Life is too short for lousy microfoam.
The original arm with small 4 hole nozzle is back on the machine.
Looking forward to burnt fingers.

Whoodathunkit?

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Post by bbqnut » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:26 am

Sorry to ask this silly question, but aren't there 3 different 4 hole tips?

The original with the S1, the "improved" that came with the VII, and now the "new and improved" that came out in August?

Niko

Post by Niko » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:31 am

You are absolutely correct.
1. Gigantic Holes
2. Normal Holes
3. Teeny Tiny Holes

You can probably steam the wrinkles off a Volkswagen with the 1st one.


The strangest one was the 3-Hole, the outward pattern was so unusual when you sink the arm deeper into the pitcher. It was slow as molasses...............

CLB wrote: The original arm with small 4 hole nozzle is back on the machine.
Looking forward to burnt fingers.
You should try the S5 arm, it's more versatile than the stock shorty.
...boy, you'd think I'm getting a commission for selling the S5 arm :lol:

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Post by bbqnut » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:46 am

Just checked, and it looks like my stock looks like:

2 Hole Tip with adapter (bought with the VII) - never use it, it leaks
3 Hole Tip (bought with the VII) - been using that with my 12 oz since day 1
4 Hole Tip (came with the VII) - too fast for the 12 oz
4 Hole "New & Improved" Tip - going to try it tomorrow
2 Hole Tip (came with no burn arm) - pattern no good

Now, I am sure there is at least one person around here with more tips than me. :wink:

Niko

Post by Niko » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:01 am

I think the perfect marriage between tip and wand would be the S5 arm with the new 4-Hole. That's a deadly combination with an Alessi 17oz pitcher, you get it all: power, speed, arm length to reach China if you need it and above all microfoam to die for. And of course bragging rights by holding an Alessi pitcher :wink:
That size pitcher also works well for the faster 4-Hole tip so you don't get the Goldilocks effect...mm, this pitcher is too small, this pitcher is too big, etc..

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Post by bbqnut » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:09 am

Well, I must have an Alessi pitcher now. And an S5 arm.

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Post by bbqnut » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:12 am

Is this price about right? $97?

http://www.visionsespresso.com/cart.php ... t_list&c=7

Found it directly on their site for $85.

http://www.alessi-shop.com/ashop-us/des ... -1131.html

Niko

Post by Niko » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:42 am

I got all (4) of mine directly from Alessi.
Yes, the prices are correct - you could buy another espresso machine at the price of just a few of those!

BrewHaHa

Post by BrewHaHa » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:17 pm

Niko wrote:I think the perfect marriage between tip and wand would be the S5 arm with the new 4-Hole. That's a deadly combination with an Alessi 17oz pitcher, you get it all: power, speed, arm length to reach China if you need it and above all microfoam to die for. And of course bragging rights by holding an Alessi pitcher :wink:
That size pitcher also works well for the faster 4-Hole tip so you don't get the Goldilocks effect...mm, this pitcher is too small, this pitcher is too big, etc..
17 oz pitcher, but how much milk? Is that the size of pitcher you use for 4 oz of milk for a cappuccino? (Or even less for a macchiato?)

(I

Niko

Post by Niko » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:30 pm

BrewHaHa wrote: 17 oz pitcher, but how much milk? Is that the size of pitcher you use for 4 oz of milk for a cappuccino? (Or even less for a macchiato?)
You can get 6oz of milk for 2 Cappuccinos easily without blowing it out of the pitcher, again the beauty of the Alessi 17 is that you can use ANY of the tips. The 2, 3, and any of the 4-hole tips will work in that pitcher - only problem is the price.

Problem I've seen here in the States, is that the Cappuccinos are MONSTROSITIES unlike the nice 5oz cups in Europe. They're more like Lattaccinos here :lol: tons of milk, blah! Where's da' coffee?

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Post by italyhound » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:24 pm

OK well checking in and glad to see I am not the only one. While I don't mind the slower speed of the 2 hole tip on the no burn wand, it just doesn't seem to make great microfoam - it's good but not my previous latte art quality. The angle is really hard to get used to, especially in a small pitcher that I use. I can't get it straight down into the milk easily.

I am wondering if the new 4 hole might be better on the old 'hot tamale' arm. My concern is the holes may still be too big for my portion sizes but smaller is smaller.

And here is a question for brew ha ha. I initially used the 2 hole tip on the original wand but, even though it worked great for me, it kept leaking steam as it wasn't the "right" tip for the machine. What adapter is Brew Ha Ha speaking of? Hmm?

Thoughts?

Thanks

Evan

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Post by bbqnut » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:19 pm


BrewHaHa

Post by BrewHaHa » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:57 am

italyhound wrote:And here is a question for brew ha ha. I initially used the 2 hole tip on the original wand but, even though it worked great for me, it kept leaking steam as it wasn't the "right" tip for the machine. What adapter is Brew Ha Ha speaking of? Hmm?
Like bbqnut said:
http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/parts/adaptor

And this is the tip:
http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... lesteamtip

It's meant for other machines, which is why the adapter is necessary.

I'm a little confused, though, Italyhound. Do you have one of the original S1s, which apparently had a different arm that accepted different tips than later machines? I take it that arm would accept this "other" 2-hole tip directly, without an adapter.

I'm pretty sure the adapter wouldn't work on the original arm, but if we're talking about the same 2-hole tip, the adapter would be necessary to fit this non-Vivaldi 2-hole tip onto the no-burn arm.

Or, do you possibly mean that you took off the 2-hole tip that came with the no-burn arm and put it on your old arm? (Which would also mean that you don't have one of the first machines with a different thread arm, but rather that you have an arm that has the same threads as the no-burn.)

Lastly, what exactly do you mean when you say the 2-hole tip was "leaking steam"? Because it has just two, relatively small holes, it does take a few seconds to depressurize after you turn off the steam. Is this what you mean? (If so, that's just going to be the way it is with a "slower" tip that restricts the steamflow.)

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Post by bbqnut » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:45 am

Mine also leaks a little even with the adapter, due to the adapter not seating perfectly.

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Post by chas » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:48 am

I had a variety of 2, 3, and 4 hole tips when I owned the S1. I had an overlap of close to a month when I owned the S1 and the VII and easily swapped all the tips back and forth. I'm not aware that any threading change on the steam arms has ever occurred.

I should also add that I've had: 1) The original S1 steam arm whose shape was similar to the No Burn arm, the S5 arm which was initially shipped to original S1 owners that complained about the first steam arm, and the redesigned S1 arm which came on the V2 which is like a shorter version of the S5 arm. My entire tip collection also interchanged perfectly with all three steam area.
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Post by italyhound » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:22 am

When I bought the VII, I had asked for a 2 hole tip so it came with the adapter and 2 hole tip. There was also an O-ring located in between the adapter and the steam arm (or adapet and tip - don't recall anymore). When the steam was turned on, it leaked steam and hot water and as the dried milk caked on it over time, it would seal itself. The problem was a yin-yang of function vs gunk on the arm. After the O-ring popped off and was lost (probably to the dog's gullet), it was a total leaky mess and I decided to go with the adapter-less 4 hole original match. When I was reading some of the posts above, I had thought that there was another better fitting option but that is the exact tip and adapter I initally received.

I then got the no burn wand but I am thinking of going to the smaller 4 hole as I am not loving this setup either.

I would have been very happy staying with the 2 hole and the adapter but it was just such a messy operation. If there is indeed someone having leak free success with such a set up, I am all ears. for suggestions.

Nonetheless, I think it's worth the $10 to try out the new 4 hole regardless and see if that's restrained enough for my particular uses.

This has been the only sticky issue for me on an otherwise great great machine...

Evan

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Post by BrewHaHa » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:57 am

chas wrote:I had a variety of 2, 3, and 4 hole tips when I owned the S1. I had an overlap of close to a month when I owned the S1 and the VII and easily swapped all the tips back and forth. I'm not aware that any threading change on the steam arms has ever occurred.
Sorry for conjecturing where I didn't have first hand knowledge. I was trying to figure out how italyhound could have been using an older 2-hole tip without an adapter, and found this info on the S1 archive page:
http://www.rimpo.org/s1/S1Archives.html

Difference in Early machines Vs. Final S1's Shipped

Original (Pre-2/20/2004):
Steam arm accommodates a number of 3rd party tips included much praised 2 hole tip.

New (Post 2/20/2004):
Nice, but non-standard tip-threads on end of arm. Cannot use 3rd party tips.

--------------

Without having seen one of the Original S1s, I took that description to mean that the threading was different on that machine's arm.

In any case, I see that this had nothing to do with the leaky 2-hole tip issue.

Personally, I haven't noticed any leaking from the around the 2-hole tip / adapter. I did notice that when I first screwed it on, I tightened it so much that the o-ring was practically squeezed right out of the joint (ie, stretched). I backed it off so that it's just snug, so the o-ring stays completely seated in the joint. As I said, I didn't NOTICE any leaking, but since I wasn't looking for it, I can't say for sure there wasn't any.

I wonder if it would be practical to use Teflon tape on the joint to prevent leaking? (Almost a surgical procedure, if possible at all, I imagine.)

I am thinking of putting that 2-hole-tip-with-adapter on the no-burn arm, since I'm having problems steaming 3-4 oz of milk, even with the new small-hole 4-hole. (Fast, fast, fast!) If I do, I'll look for leaking and report back.

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Post by bbqnut » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:06 am

And don't forget the 3 hole tip.

This is what I have been using for the last several months, and it has not been bad for the 12 ounce pitcher.

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Post by italyhound » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:20 am

Thanks for that follow up. I seriously wonder now whether the new 4 hole is going to be gentle enough for me. I remember reading about the 3 hole tip here too and IIRC was not thrilled enough to buy:

http://www.rimpo.org/wforum/viewtopic.p ... =toothpick


Maybe I should go back to square one if I don't get a handle on the 2 hole no burn. Perhaps I had a bad o-ring or something. It sounds like I am the only one with leak issues that were dramatic enough to switch tips.

Evan

BrewHaHa

Post by BrewHaHa » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:47 am

TomP10 wrote:... Was wondering what people now think after having the no-burn arm for a longer period of time. Are you more favorably impressed? Has it become the main steam arm or do you still prefer the regular steam arm.
I'm personally very happy with the no-burn arm and the new 4 (.9mm)hole tip (installed using teflon tape around the no-burn's internal tube to prevent steam backflow.)

I have not used the S-5 arm, but the no-burn is nicely longer than the stock arm, and I enjoy both the angle of the arm, and the ease of cleaning, since milk doesn't get baked on.

I'm quite happy with the microfoam I get. Steaming times are about 20 seconds for 4 oz of milk, and about 35 seconds for 8 oz (to about 150 degrees).

-John

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Post by Weska » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:59 pm

I've never used the no-burn arm, and I've never had any trouble evading the ones I've used, which were the factory-installed one (presumably the one that came on the first S1s sold and the better angled one with the rubber sleeve on its bend (presumably the first modification to the earliest S1s).

Nor have I had any tendency for milk to build up on the second arm. And I haven't been obsessive about cleaning it. I give it just a casual wipe with a sponge after any milkwork. I've never even had to soak it.

As you might guess, I am just not motivated to try the no-burn.

woodchuck

Post by woodchuck » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:55 pm

I'm with Weska on this one. I haven't found the stock VII arm to be a problem. I haven't gotten burnt, it cleans easily and gets the job done. I do like the new 4 hole tip though.

Cheers

Ian

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