Alarm post shot UPDATE

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comrade
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Alarm post shot UPDATE

Post by comrade » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:12 pm

So since my last post I tried to re-calibrate the valve with no luck. Contacted Jason from Chris Coffee who sent me a replacement valve. Again no luck on fixing the problem. Contacted idrinkcoffee, they are sending me a new machine. Nice. Hopefully no more problems.

Thanks for all the help.





Good Afternoon,

Having a steady alarm for 5 seconds or so following either a single or double shot. There seems to be a high pitched whoosh for a few seconds when the pump starts. No LED lights come on indicating what may be the problem. The machine does not turn off. I have played with the grind with no avail. Have only had the machine a week or so.

Any ideas

Thanks
Last edited by comrade on Mon May 09, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chas
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by chas » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:01 pm

Define "steady alarm". There is no alarm beeper on the machine. Alarms only take the form of LED patterns.
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by comrade » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:22 pm

I didn't think there was one either but it sure sounds like one. Its not a beeeeeeeeep but more or an eeeeeeeeeee. I will take a video tomorrow and post it if I can. Not too computer savey.

cheers

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Endo
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by Endo » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:13 pm

There is no alarm. It's probably coming from your pump or bearings.
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by jbb » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:55 pm

was wondering about the sound too.

eeeeeee as in screeeeeeech would definitely sound like pump internals or the motor.

high pitched whooosh, as initially described, could be different (but not very alarm-like).

does the flow rate out the group seem normal?

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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by comrade » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:44 pm

Here is a video taken last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho8saWog5yM. If you can't click on it from here its under La Spaziale Vivaldi II sound on youtube

I hope someone can enlighten me on what could be happening. It sure doesn't sound right......

Thanks

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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by chas » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:46 pm

I've never heard the likes of that. It's definitely NOT your pump or motor since they are stopped the whole time your system is squealing. It actually appears that the squeal starts at the moment your brew boiler starts heating and the noise stops at the instant the brew boiler turns back off.

If this is what is actually happening, the brew boiler will actually cycle on and off periodically and not just after pulling a shot. I would expect you to hear squealing then as well if it has anything to do with the boiler cycling. However, if it truly happens only at the end of a shot, it is probably something else.

I also noticed that not only was the start of the sound coincident with the boiler light starting to flash but also at the same instant you started to twist the portafilter handle. Does the squeal also happen after a shot when you don't touch the PF handle?\

Otherwise, everything appears normal to me except for the squeal.
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by oton » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:09 pm

Capacitors can produce a high pitched whine sound, specially during high loads which would make sense if the noise only appears during the boiler cycles; however I think I never heard a capacitor whine sound so louder, so I'm not sure...
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by chas » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:15 pm

I was also thinking that it could be about time for the new machines to start showing up that include solid state relays in place of the triacs. The easiest give away would be lack of a cooling fan. I think that relays can sometimes make a whining noise though they're not supposed to.
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by Endo » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:30 pm

Well that's very odd!!

Definitely an electronics noise. Looks like a new machine based on the new PF handle. I agree with Chas, must be caused by some new electronics introduced on the latest machines. Maybe they added a fault alarm to the LED faults. :lol: (more likely related to the fan removal mod though).

What's the serial number on the machine?
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by JohnB » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:20 pm

Could be pressure bleeding off after the shot. Possibly there is an issue with the 3 way? Have you sent the video to CC to see what they think?
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by comrade » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:39 pm

I don't think the machine is from the newest batch. The sticker on the front panel indicates it was manufactured July 2010, the serial number is 256889. From the sounds of the machine, I am pretty sure there is still a fan in there. I sent the video to Slawek at idrinkcoffee.com where I purchased it but I know he gets them from CC. I have not heard from him yet. I will contact the guys at CC to get their opinion.

Thanks a bunch for the replies so far and will keep you updated.

Cheers

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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by Endo » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:14 pm

OK. Sounds like we can rule out the new electronics.

I don't know. This one has me stumped. :?: :oops:

All I can say is that by the fact that it happens with a light touch of the PF handle, it makes me there is some bizzare natural frequency in the machine being excited (some weird high frequency harmonics).

One good thing though. The video gave me a better idea of the cause of the woosh noise asked last week. It defintiely sounds like a "filling" noise. I suspect now the woosh is caused by air trapped in the vertical portion of the copper tube on top of the gicleur. (I guess it drains due to gravity after each shot). You can almost here it filling through the gicleur in this video. (Sorry that doesn't help your weird harmonic).
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by comrade » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:32 pm

I should mention that it was just a fluke that it happened just when I touched the PF in the video. It happens both if I have my hand on it or not.

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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by chas » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:11 am

I take it back, I have heard this noise before. I suddenly comes back to me. It's most likely the expansion valve. I found one of the threads about it here: viewtopic.php?t=454&highlight=whistling+noise. You the first lucky person to have this problem in the last four years as I recall. The good news is that it has no impact whatsoever on operation though if it is caused by the expansion valve being incorrectly adjusted that should be corrected at your convenience. The instructions are located on the User's Manual.

BTW: When you read the thread above, some of the folks get into speculation about the noise being from the fan. Ignore those comments and focus on the ones discussing the expansion valve.

As noted there are two possible causes 1: misadjustment 2) mis-seating. The latter could require a new rubber valve seat which is easy to install. The way this valve works - there is a spring that pushes the rubber seat up against the end of a pipe. The seat is a round rubber disk that is just slightly larger in diameter that the end of the pipe. If the rubber is either cracked or misaligned it needs to be replaced. With luck all you will need is an adjustment usually by unscrewing the valve a turn or so.
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by Bitches_Brew » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:08 am

just watched the video and i believe chas is right. when i recently replaced the valve seat in my expansion valve it made that noise when i over tightened it. i would just try loosening it a turn or so.

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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by jbb » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:08 pm

Hope Chas's suggestion on adjusting the expansion valve works. from the video i see what you mean now about whoosh followed by the screeching sound. first thing i thought was that it reminded me of a teapot.

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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by comrade » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:36 pm

Thank you so much for the replies. I sent a message including the video to both idrinkcoffee.com and CC. Have not heard back from either yet and I will not do any real exploring until I hear back from them. The screeeech sound is obviously odd and needs addressing but the whooosh sound I get when either the single or double shot is pressed seems to be getting worse. I don't hear that sound from any other video I see of a Vivaldi. Am I just paranoid.........Other than these two issues I really love the machine!!!

Thanks again

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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by jbb » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:46 pm

The whooosh sound appears to be rather common on plumbed in versions of the Vivaldi and, while maybe kind of weird, is apparently nothing to worry about.

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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by Endo » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:27 pm

As Chas mentioned, the woosh is normal on the rotary model. The noise does not happen on the Mini since it uses a vibe pump and therfore has no gicleurs (which cause the characteristic "peeing gnome" sound). :lol:
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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by comrade » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:09 pm

Alright, just received a message back from Jason at CC. He seems to feel very confidently that the whistling sound is in fact coming from the expansion valve as you guys suspected. He said that it is too tight and to back off the valve a touch. The whooshing sound is also normal, you guys have also pointed that out as well.

Thanks again you guys for all the help, really appreciate it.

Have a great weekend.

Rob

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Re: Alarm post shot

Post by Endo » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:06 pm

Sure didn't sound like whistle in the video, definitely an alarm sound. Just goes to to show you can't trust what you see (or hear). At least from cheapo camera mics.
Endo

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Re: Alarm post shot UPDATE

Post by comrade » Mon May 09, 2011 9:36 pm

So I tried to re-calibrate the expansion valve but no luck, still whistling. Jason from CCS sent me a replacement valve, I replaced it and again no luck. Contacted idrinkcoffee where I purchased and agreed that a replacement machine was in order. Its on its way. Hopefully no more issues.

Thanks for all the help

Rob

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Re: Alarm post shot UPDATE

Post by Endo » Mon May 09, 2011 9:44 pm

Well that's a weird one. I sure am curious what made that sound.

Did you check for one of these?

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/8c52/
Endo

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