new VII owner here - some questions...

Post by **bluesman13** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:33 pm

hello,

I've had my VII for under a month, and, I'm loving it so far.

But, I have some lingering questions:

1. using a double naked pf, the shot goes blond in about 15 seconds. When I say "blond" I mean that it seems that it's crema that's the blond color. I'm using a Macap grinder and the pull lasts about 25-30 seconds. I haven't changeed the presets at all, I'm using it the way it came from Chris's.

2. Frothing the milk: Since I want to do latte art, I'm making lattes, but I can't get a consistent creamy texture. I've read all the guides and posts at HB and at CG, but as of yet, I am unable to do this. I usually get a layer of foam on top and the rest thin warm milk. ant step-by-step suggestions? The guides I read said to stretch first to 90 degrees, then go lower to the bottom of the pitcher until 160 degrees.

thanks for any advice...

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:44 pm

Don't worry about the presets on the machine, it is programmed to essentially dispense 2 oz for a double and "so on" for a single, etc..
The shot is over when it blonds, cut it off manually and don't worry about volume or time....just think "blond", cut it off when you see it happening. Another thing to try is grinding a little finer and don't tamp too hard, keep it no more than 30lbs but keep it consistent no matter what.

As for the milk frothing...
Those rules don't apply to the Spaz's steaming department either.
Crank open the steam and let the tip skitter just below the surface for that "ch-ch-ch" sound until you reach (not sure how many degrees but it doesn't seem to work on the Spaz like other machines)....maybe about 80-85F? But nevertheless when it starts to feel warm sink that baby all the way down, way down into the pitcher to get the milk rolling end over end (not a whirlpool) but rather a roll to bust up the large bubbles. Pull away when the milk hits 140F because it will easily climb to 160F afterwards.

Post by **bbqnut** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:58 pm

Well I learned something about latte art just now. I was having the same problems as the OP. Gotta try that when I get home, as I have been trying the traditional method all along.

As for the blonding, the beginner also can get confused between the lighter variations of a good shot, and true blonding.

I found this little article that might help visually at least. And he is using an S1!

http://www.ineedcoffee.com/07/naked-portafilter/

Post by **bluesman13** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:39 pm

bbqnut wrote: As for the blonding, the beginner also can get confused between the lighter variations of a good shot, and true blonding.!

http://www.ineedcoffee.com/07/naked-portafilter/

well, that's what I was wondering since what seems to be blonding to me, may just be the lighter colored crema

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:58 pm

Let your taste buds be the judge...you'll know the difference when the taste is

Trust me, beginner or not you'll know when something doesn't taste right.

Post by **bbqnut** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:11 pm

Niko wrote:Let your taste buds be the judge...you'll know the difference when the taste is
Trust me, beginner or not you'll know when something doesn't taste right.

I agree that taste should be your judge.

But beginners don't always know what that should be.

And I have a had more than 1 shot that supposedly was too short, too long, too blond, whatever, that tasted good. But I know what good should taste like

Post by **bluesman13** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:38 pm

I've got like 1/4 to 1/2 an inch of crema on top - it comes at the end of the shot and when it's coming out of the naked pf, it appears blonde - so that why i thought it was (or is?) early blonding

Post by **bbqnut** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:08 pm

bluesman13 wrote:I've got like 1/4 to 1/2 an inch of crema on top - it comes at the end of the shot and when it's coming out of the naked pf, it appears blonde - so that why i thought it was (or is?) early blonding

Check Youtube for blonding.

The crema should probably come in over the whole shot, not just at the end.

Post by **bluesman13** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:46 pm

bbqnut wrote: I found this little article that might help visually at least. And he is using an S1!

http://www.ineedcoffee.com/07/naked-portafilter/

unfortunately, those pictures look familiar! Except I didn't see one where it sprays all over my face and the counter in all directions!

thanks for the link!

Steve

Post by **bluesman13** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:23 am

can either of you post a picture of a shot that you pulled that is good?

Post by **bbqnut** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:56 am

bluesman13 wrote:can either of you post a picture of a shot that you pulled that is good?

I assume you want the pour, or do you want the shot?

Niko posted a shot on this very forum here:

wforum/viewtopic.php?t=494

Post by **bluesman13** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:00 am

bbqnut wrote:
bluesman13 wrote:can either of you post a picture of a shot that you pulled that is good?
I assume you want the pour, or do you want the shot?

Niko posted a shot on this very forum here:

wforum/viewtopic.php?t=494

ok, I see that. The shots I've been pulling have a layer of crema (?) on top. At least that's what I think it is.

Post by **bluesman13** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:41 am

I don't have a digital camera but my shot looks like this:

but according to the sweetmarias site, it says this is desirable:

The top one has a layer of crema like mine, but the second, it's very thin. How is it supposed to be? (or is there no absolute?)

I understand the point about the taste, but I'm just learning. It never really tastes bad, but I want to be sure that I'm mazimizing all the flavors.

thanks for any advise and thanks for this website!

Post by **Niko** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:00 pm

There is no absolute.

Some coffees will have more crema and some don't....perfectly normal. The pic that Chris linked you to of mine in the yellow cup is a type of coffee with very little crema but flavor-wise it kicks the pants off most S.O. I've pulled recently.
That pic you posted of the Marzocco bottomless shot tells me there's uneven distribution, the shot is pouring near the very front of the basket - I'm sure the shot taste pretty good.

Post by **bluesman13** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:10 pm

thanks Niko!

If I can borrow a digital camera from work, is it ok to post some pics of what mine look like, and then someone can give me some advice?

Post by **Niko** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:20 pm

Of course it is!
Link it from an off-site place such as Youtube or Google video (or however else you can get it) and post the link here.

Post by **bbqnut** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:28 pm

And for still photos, just create a flickr account.

I wouldn't get too hung up on crema dissection at this point.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:11 pm

You can upload still pix directly to this forum using the "Upload picture" button. You only need to externally link videos.

Post by **bbqnut** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:42 pm

OK, I was just thinking of page loading here at the forums, and the ability to batch upload say 5, 10, or more to Flickr.

But if the admin says to do it, do it.

Post by **bluesman13** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:48 pm

OK, for better or worse, here are this am's pics (warts and all):

First the tamp

now the pull: (bad pic, but only 8 seconds into the pull, see how blonde it is?)

The cup and crema: (after it settled for a few seconds)

From a little bit closer:

And the pf afterwards: (notice the impression of the screen - am I over-dosing?)

And last one from the top of the glass looking down: (kind of a wierd angle)

So, fire away and critique everything! I have no feelings, so let me have it.....

Post by **Niko** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:17 am

The PF basket is overloaded.

Post by **bluesman13** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:02 am

Niko wrote:The PF basket is overloaded.

ok, cool. Is there any visual reference I can use? What about the ridge in the basket about halfway up?

Post by **bbqnut** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:51 am

bluesman13 wrote:
Niko wrote:The PF basket is overloaded.
ok, cool. Is there any visual reference I can use? What about the ridge in the basket about halfway up?

I just know by looking at my tamper, where it is in relation to the top of the basket.

I tend to overfill somewhat, and don't really have problems with channeling. Of course, I don't have a triple basket. :D

Post by **Niko** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:26 pm

bluesman13 wrote:
Niko wrote:The PF basket is overloaded.
ok, cool. Is there any visual reference I can use? What about the ridge in the basket about halfway up?

After I tamp, I'm several millimeters below that ridge. I hardly get an impression from the bolt, yours not only has a deep impression but also the show screen left its mark on there too.
True you can overdose with certain types of coffee (like Chris just mentioned) but the Spaz isn't a happy camper when you overdose most of the time.

Post by **bluesman13** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:46 pm

Niko wrote:
bluesman13 wrote:
Niko wrote:The PF basket is overloaded.
ok, cool. Is there any visual reference I can use? What about the ridge in the basket about halfway up?
After I tamp, I'm several millimeters below that ridge. I hardly get an impression from the bolt, yours not only has a deep impression but also the show screen left its mark on there too.
True you can overdose with certain types of coffee (like Chris just mentioned) but the Spaz isn't a happy camper when you overdose most of the time.

anyone willing to post a pic of where it comes to on your single and/or double basket?

Post by **bluesman13** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:19 pm

just as an update,

this am I filled the single basket to about the ridge on the inside of the basket. I pulled the shot and it was done in 5-6 seconds. It also blonded (see pic above) almost right away. My grinder (MACAP stepless) is set to about 2-2 1/2. I don't think I can make the grind any finer.

Comments?

Post by **bbqnut** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:27 pm

bluesman13 wrote:just as an update,

this am I filled the single basket to about the ridge on the inside of the basket. I pulled the shot and it was done in 5-6 seconds. It also blonded (see pic above) almost right away. My grinder (MACAP stepless) is set to about 2-2 1/2. I don't think I can make the grind any finer.

Comments?

I am pretty sure you should be able to go finer (numbers are kind of meaningless in the traditional sense).

It could also be that your tamper is not really reaching down all the way to tamp the coffee well enough. If it does reach, you may need to tamp harder.

Lastly, if you are into counting shot times, I start as soon as I hit the button.

Post by **bluesman13** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:48 pm

gosh, I thought Niko would be all over this one!

Post by **Niko** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:43 pm

Sorry...
under-caffeinated today

I'll post a pic this evening of a puck (in basket) after a shot is pulled.
Besides, Chris is doing a dandy job...he's correct in pointing you in the right direction in that fast channeling quick pours you're experiencing.
But, as Chris mentioned in the past - the coffee itself is (sometimes) the culprit.

Post by **Niko** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:25 pm

bluesman13 wrote:gosh, I thought Niko would be all over this one!

LOOK MA, no clumping out of a doserless!

This shot was pulled using the Mazzer, the grind settings are on the left, to right is the equivalent adjustment on a MACAP doserless.

Post by **bluesman13** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:45 am

Niko, thanks for the pictures. A couple of questions:

when you said that you fill the pf to just below the ridge in the basket, which ridge do you mean? In your picture, your pf looks almost full. The ridge I meant was the one about halfway up the pf. WHen I try that, my single or double shot is done in a matter of seconds.

Also, on your Macap stepless, is that correct that it's set at between 5 and 6? My directions from CHris's said to turn it down until the burrs start to touch and then go about 2-2 1/2 above that. My start to touch right around "0", so I set it about 2 - 2 1/2.

bbqnut, Im using an Espro tamper, so I'm tamping until it clicks (~30 lbs). Should I go more than that?

thanks for the responses!

Post by **Niko** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:16 am

bluesman13 wrote: when you said that you fill the pf to just below the ridge in the basket, which ridge do you mean? In your picture, your pf looks almost full. The ridge I meant was the one about halfway up the pf. WHen I try that, my single or double shot is done in a matter of seconds.

Like I said, weight not volume is important - fill it to just where the basket ends at the top (roughly 14-16 grams) depending on the type of bean(s). I would get a small scale, the one in the pic is a $12 cheapo and it's super accurate.
After you tamp, the coffee should be several millimeters below the ridge in the basket (yes, the one lower in the basket). When you're done pulling the shot, there should (barely) be an impression of the bolt holding the shower screens. Sometimes, depending which type of bean(s) - I get no impression at all or when I use a convex tamp I get no impression most of the time.

bluesman13 wrote: Also, on your Macap stepless, is that correct that it's set at between 5 and 6? My directions from CHris's said to turn it down until the burrs start to touch and then go about 2-2 1/2 above that. My start to touch right around "0", so I set it about 2 - 2 1/2.

Don't worry about that, mine has a different starting point...

Post by **bluesman13** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:17 am

Niko wrote:
bluesman13 wrote: when you said that you fill the pf to just below the ridge in the basket, which ridge do you mean? In your picture, your pf looks almost full. The ridge I meant was the one about halfway up the pf. WHen I try that, my single or double shot is done in a matter of seconds.
Like I said, weight not volume is important - fill it to just where the basket ends at the top (roughly 14-16 grams) depending on the type of bean(s). I would get a small scale, the one in the pic is a $12 cheapo and it's super accurate.
After you tamp, the coffee should be several millimeters below the ridge in the basket (yes, the one lower in the basket). When you're done pulling the shot, there should (barely) be an impression of the bolt holding the shower screens. Sometimes, depending which type of bean(s) - I get no impression at all or when I use a convex tamp I get no impression most of the time.
bluesman13 wrote: Also, on your Macap stepless, is that correct that it's set at between 5 and 6? My directions from CHris's said to turn it down until the burrs start to touch and then go about 2-2 1/2 above that. My start to touch right around "0", so I set it about 2 - 2 1/2.
Don't worry about that, mine has a different starting point...

So Niko, did you buy that $12 scale in this century? what brand, and where? (thanks for the pictures)

Post by **Niko** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:47 am

eBay, just a few months ago...
it sells for 99 cents, they'll gouge you on shipping for $12.
So...13 dollars later you get a scale.
http://stores.ebay.com/www-OLDWILLKNOTT-com
Got to this guys store on eBay and look up the pocket scales, the one I have in particular is the 600X0.1 model.

Post by **bluesman13** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:58 pm

Niko wrote:eBay, just a few months ago...
it sells for 99 cents, they'll gouge you on shipping for $12.
So...13 dollars later you get a scale.
http://stores.ebay.com/www-OLDWILLKNOTT-com
Got to this guys store on eBay and look up the pocket scales, the one I have in particular is the 600X0.1 model.

Niko,

thanks, I just ordered one. They must have raised their prices though because it was $2.99 not $.99. But hey, at $12.99 for shippping, who cares!

Post by **Niko** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:46 am

Oh, I see what happened...
it was up for bidding and "buy-it-now" when I got it. The bidding started at 99 cents or buy-it-now for $2.99 - I got it for 99 cents but like you said it's a helluva' deal anyways, right?

I've had it for quite some time now and I love it. Been thinking about one of the bad-ass versions for about $148, Lord of The Scales - ONE SCALE TO RULE THEM ALL! With a large platform and beefy 5.7lb capacity that measures in 0.1 grams! Now I'm starting to sound like a Scale-Salesman

Post by **bluesman13** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:16 pm

Niko wrote:Oh, I see what happened...
it was up for bidding and "buy-it-now" when I got it. The bidding started at 99 cents or buy-it-now for $2.99 - I got it for 99 cents but like you said it's a helluva' deal anyways, right?

I've had it for quite some time now and I love it. Been thinking about one of the bad-ass versions for about $148, Lord of The Scales - ONE SCALE TO RULE THEM ALL! With a large platform and beefy 5.7lb capacity that measures in 0.1 grams! Now I'm starting to sound like a Scale-Salesman

ok, sure, Niko - how long have been in business with the scale guy???? Hey, I got the scale today - cute little thing! I was surprised that it came so fast, but then I remembered that it was $12.00 for shipping and thought that as soon as I pressed the "buy it now" button, the Fed-X guy should've been ringing my doorbell!

Seriously though, can I assume that you dose 14.5 grams for a double? And how many grams for a single?

Post by **Niko** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:23 pm

what's a "single"?....

Post by **bluesman13** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:35 pm

Niko wrote:what's a "single"?....

single shot...

Post by **Niko** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:39 pm

I know...I was just kidding

I pull about 2 singles per year!
I dose in the 8-9 gram neighborhood or those.

Post by **bluesman13** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:42 pm

Niko wrote:I know...I was just kidding I pull about 2 singles per year!
I dose in the 8-9 gram neighborhood or those.

and 14.5 grams is the usual amount you dose for a double? Does it vary according to the beans, ordoes it stay the same?

Post by **Niko** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:26 pm

I like to dose by weight, not volume...but with some beans you need to make exceptions. Monsooned (Indian) coffees, you get get low weight but a massive amount of volume, this is not good for the Spaz, remember it's a sensitive machine for overdosing.
You will find your own groove, some beans are good at 15g and some others at 14, while others are just right at 14.5 or 15.5g. You'll see what I mean now that you have an accurate scale.

The S1 Cafe - Helping Your Espresso Dreams Become Reality

new VII owner here - some questions...

new VII owner here - some questions...

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